Same shit as manifest destiny. Even if I give you China is Qin and Han. The current China encompassed still many ethnic kingdoms since the Han dynasty. China currently probably 2 to 3 times Han dynasty. There are separatist movements since the Han dynasty and there are still now.
And where is Qin,Zhao,Chu etc today?
Again how can we apply an modern day ethnic label on extinct people?
Reminds me of Vietnamese claiming Baiyue as solely Vietnamese.
There aren't any separatist movements save for some Uighurs and Tibetans which are hardly representative of the majority Han or other large minorities ie Manchu,Hui,Miao,Zhuang etc.
Don't know what your point is from the overall of this thread nor how is it addressing my point of the post. Nanyue may not be vietnamese but is vietnamese as how the Chinese claimed the Qing dynasty is Chinese.
You analogy for Nanyue and Qing doesn't fit.
1.Both Nanyue and Qing used the same title ie Huangdi which is a Chinese concept.
2.Both Nanyue and Qing established its capital in modern day China.
3.Both Nanyue and Qing adopted Chinese scripts,bureaucracy,culture.
4.Qing followed the standard procedure of Chinese dynasties ie claiming the mandate of heaven and making sacrifices to Tian.
5.Zhao Tuo did not claim ancestry or legitimacy from Au Lac.
6.Both Nanyue and Qing had a large Sinitic speaking population.
7.Majority of the population of Nanyue was Tai Kadai speakers not Vietnamese.
Or how they try to rewrite history and claim Genghis Khan is Chinese.
This isn't taught in either the PRC or ROC.
I don't need to refer back to your thread. Western historians had said vietnamese historians do not particularly have a truth perspective but rather a nationalistic perspective. They try too hard to tie ancient history to that of vietnamese history. Dong Son culture may not even belong to the Kinh Vietnamese. Likewise, whatever ancient craps that are found in China may not necessarily stem from the ancient Han Chinese. I don't think there is a strong enough link to said all those countries back during Spring Autumn are all HAN CHINESE. My point still stand. China was a tiny country. Its southern border changed all the time. Taiwan wasn't even populated by Han Chinese at one point. How can it claimed that it had navigate South China Sea much more so than the ancient Austronesian peoples.
Dong Son was distinctly Mongoloid while the previous inhabitants of Vietnam were Australoid showing that their ancestors came from Southern China,this doesn't mean that Vietnamese have any rights towards modern day China though.
I don't put ethnic labels on neolithic cultures either,they were most likely ancestral to many modern day ethnicities.
There is no such thing as ancient Han Chinese rather the ancients probably though themselves as Hua/Xia/x country.
The vast majority of states were founded by Sinitic or Sinicized people the exception are small states such as Zhongsan or Lai.
I am a seeker of truth. What I can say is that the Viet did well to kept themselves separate from the Chinese and not just one of the 55 minorities in China. The trend of nationalism and tying identity to history past whether if there is kennel of truth or not just explain out identity. It is no more absurd than many things the chinese believe in ages past.
But what is your motive?? Trying to discredit every other points I have by bringing this up? Or are you trying to get me to admit what a shameful fake *** our history is? Those shit doesn't matter. Tran Hung Dao, Quang Trung, Ngo Quyen, Trung sisters, lady Trieu, Le Loi. As long as those are real it doesn't matter. I hope you are not baiting me.
This eternal struggle rhetoric by Vietnamese is nothing more than a farce,linguistic studies have shown that the ancient/medieval Vietnamese(or the elite) spoke a variant of Ancient Southwestern Chinese,Vietnamese rebelled when there were unfair rulers but under men such as Shi Xie the region was quiet. The dynasties of Ly,Tran and Ho all had "Chinese" ancestors showing that ethnic Han were able to assimilate.
Ethnicities are all social constructs there maybe a blood component depending on who you ask.
I'm sick and tired of Vietnamese members claiming Southern China as their lost homeland and using a myth that originated from fairy tales in an attempt to prove it. ie Xich Quy/Van Lang
Vietnamese historical figures are real whether they identify with modern day Kinh Vietnamese is different.
But seemed you are someone I could learn from because you have at least proven yourself to me that you know what you are talking about. So I will ask the expert, how many kingdoms, dynasty, nations, and states that aren't started by Han Chinese that is right now in the current space that is People's Republic of China? I don't meant anything by this. It actually an intriguing thought for me and it just started since I began the conversation on this forum. To be honest, I was one of those ignorant person who don't think about these things prior to this.
And what is Han Chinese? When it came to existence? And what is Vietnamese according to your truth?
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Edit: I am debating if I am should entertain you further. Because it kinda derailing the topic of this thread, also if you don't know, I am more interested in current events. I only delve into this because a lot of people on the net seemed to think China had always been a benevolent, peaceful country that like never never into expansionism.
Whether or not a ethnic Han or minority sits on the dragon throne doesn't matter to me,they viewed themselves of ruler of Tianxia and Zhongguo.
Han ethnoym originated during the Northern Wei as an ethnic slur or a term for the Sinitic speakers.
The first time Han included Southern Han was during the Ming.
