South China Sea Forum

[cochine]

JAPAN DEPLOYING LARGEST WARSHIP TO SOUTH CHINA SEA
Posted on March 14, 2017

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Japan plans to dispatch its largest warship in South China Sea beginning in May.

According to source, Izumo helicopter carrier, commissioned only two years ago, will make stops in Singapore, Indonesia, the Philippines and Sri Lanka before joining the Malabar joint naval exercise with Indian and U.S. naval vessels in the Indian Ocean in July.

It will return to Japan in August, the sources said.

“The aim is to test the capability of the Izumo by sending it out on an extended mission,” said one of the sources who have knowledge of the plan. “It will train with the U.S. Navy in the South China Sea,” he added, asking not to be identified because he is not authorized to talk to the media.

A spokesman for Japan’s Maritime Self Defense Force declined to comment.

Japan does not have any claim to the waters, but has a separate maritime dispute with China in the East China Sea.

http://tankler.com/japahviun-deploying-largest-warship-to-south-china-sea-13374

 

[samsara]

https://twitter.com/x/status/842213685040828416

China is to build an environment monitoring station in Huangyan Dao 黄岩岛 ("Scarborough Reef") according to Sansha City Party Committee Secretary Xiao Jie - 2017-03-14.

More info (in CN): http://www.guancha.cn/local/2017_03_14_398710.shtml

The magnificent signature picture of Huangyan Island 黄岩岛 in the South China Sea​

 

[JSCh]

Thursday, March 16, 2017, 11:09
South China Sea tsunami alert center expected to go on trial in 2017
By Xinhua

BEIJING - China's tsunami warning center in the South China Sea is expected to start trial operations this year, according a UNESCO body.

The work team of the South China Sea region with the Intergovernmental Coordination Group of the Pacific Tsunami Warning and Mitigation System (ICG/PTWS), a body of the UNESCO'S Intergovernmental Oceanographic Commission, has held a meeting in Shanghai to discuss tsunami alerts in the region.

The meeting suggested the 27th ICG/PTWS session scheduled for this year should approve testing of the center before the end of the year.

The meeting also called for collaboration between the new warning center and another two in Pacific ocean.

"Issuing tsunami alerts to the international community is an important move for China to boost regional marine cooperation and participate in global ocean governance," said Yu Fujiang with the National Marine Environmental Forecasting Center.

The meeting also called for improving data sharing by establishing a monitoring network for earthquakes and tsunamis in the South China Sea region.

The meeting was attended by representatives with the UNESCO Intergovernmental Oceanographic Commission, the US National Weather Service and the Japan Meteorological Agency.

 

[cochine]

DUTERTE OK TO VISIT LARGEST WARSHIP OF JAPAN WHEN IT ARRIVES IN SUBIC
Posted on March 14, 2017

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President Rodrigo Duterte on Monday said he is open to visit in May the helicopter carrier ‘Izumo’, the largest Japanese warship.

A source has told Reuters that Japan wants to invite Duterte – who has pushed ties with China in recent months – to visit the warship when it arrives in Subic Bay, located about 100km (62 miles) west of Manila. But a spokesman for Japan’s Maritime Self Defense Force (JMSDF) declined to comment on the report.

Duterte said he would visit the warship “if I have the time.”

The report said Japan plans to dispatch its largest warship on a three-month tour through the South China Sea beginning in May, in its biggest show of naval force in the region since World War Two.

Plans to dispatch the ‘Izumo’ to the South China Sea is likely to anger Beijing, which lays claim to almost all of the resource-rich waters – despite competing claims from Vietnam, the Philippines Taiwan, Malaysia and Brunei.
http://tankler.com/duterte-ok-to-hiuviu-largest-warship-of-japan-when-it-arrives-in-subic-13384

 

[samsara]

OPINION
China must draw red line for Japan's activities in South China Sea

Source: China Military Editor: Zhang Tao - 2017-03-15

"Japan's largest warship will "patrol" the South China Sea," Reuters reported in its exclusive news on March 13. The news was confirmed by CNN on March 14, which cited an American source.

However, domestic military expert said that from a military perspective, Japan's Izumo helicopter carrier will post limited military threat in the South China Sea without air and naval support, but Japan's attempt to step up its military presence in that region on the pretext of dispatching the Izumo to participate in exercises via the South China Sea is unacceptable.

China should draw a red line for Japan's activities in the South China Sea, the expert added. CNN reported March 14 that a Pentagon official told it Monday that as part of the "Malabar" annual joint exercise, Japan's largest military vessel Izumo will have joint training with American and Indian naval ships in the coming summer.

According to CNN, " the Malabar military exercises have taken place on a rotational basis in the West Pacific and Indian oceans since Japan became a regular participant in 2007, and to get to the Indian Ocean, the shortest route will take the Izumo through the contested South China Sea".

Based on foreign media coverage, Izumo's destination this time is the Malabar Sea. It won't be the first time that the Japan Self-defense Forces passes through the South China Sea, but its duration of stay in the South China Sea will be longer than before, the expert expressed.

He also briefed that this may become the main model of Japan's voyage in the region in the future, namely "dragging its feet" on the excuse of passing. It may even hold some exercises to detect Chinese naval vessels and enhance its military presence in the South China Sea, attempting to force China to accept that as a fact. However, the expert said that China doesn't need to care too much about the normal voyage of Japanese vessels. By contrast, China only need to step up tracking and monitoring, but if they do anything unusual, China should strike back hard.

Another important purpose of Izumo is using its helicopters for anti-submarine operations. When it passes through the South China Sea, China should closely monitor its possible anti-submarine training and prevent it from threatening the PLA Navy submarines, added the expert.

CNN also claimed that the addition of the Izumo to the already large-scale exercise underscores that "Japan's anti-submarine warfare capabilities are key to attempting to deter Chinese expansion in the region".

But one Izumo isn't enough to make big waves, the expert stressed. As a helicopter carrier, Izumo has limited firepower, a deep draft and not so agile movement, so it isn't likely to enter the 12 nautical miles of Chinese islands and reefs without permission.

While, Izumo may not enter the South China Sea by itself this time. Since the vessels participating in the exercise will stay a long time in the region, it's possible that Japan and US will challenge China together.

"China must be fully prepared to fight back and draw a clear red line for Japan's activities in the South China Sea", the expert emphasized.

http://eng.chinamil.com.cn/view/2017-03/15/content_7527811.htm


Disclaimer: The information, ideas or opinions appearing in this article are those of the author from the Global Times and do not reflect the views of eng.chinamil.com.cn. Chinamil.com.cn does not assume any responsibility or liability for the same. If the article carries photographs or images, we do not vouch for their authenticity.

 

[terranMarine]

Guys @kecho is now posting a news article from 21 oct 2015

 

[cochine]

Guys @kecho is now posting a news article from 21 oct 2015

Íts valid up to now, bro.

ỏr thís is news for you.

US to finance construction of PNP Maritime Command Center

March 16, 2017 PNA Nation 0

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The United States government agreed to extend the grant worth USD 1 million for the establishment of a Maritime Command Center, which will be run by the Philippine National Police (PNP), to combat piracy and terrorism in this city. The pledge to extend the grant was made during the visit of U.S. Ambassador Sung Y. Kim in this city on Thursday.

Mayor Maria Isabelle Climaco-Salazar told the Philippines News Agency that the U.S. ambassador agreed to the extension period of the grant, since the PNP has yet to settle the land title of the area where the command center will be constructed.

The period of the grant, which was pledged last year, will expire this year.

The city government said they are eyeing for the construction of the Maritime Command Center to begin within the year.

The center will be located in Barangay Bolong, a coastal village located 32.60 kilometers east of city hall.

The Maritime Command Center aims to beef up security measures to curb the presence of terrorists, smugglers, pirates, and other criminal groups in the area.

“The city of Zamboanga expressed its gratitude to the U.S. government for its continued support to the city,” Salazar said after their closed-door meeting with the U.S. ambassador.

She said this city has been getting technical as well as financial support from the U.S. government through its development arm, the United States Agency for International Development (USAID), especially after the 21-day September 2013 siege.

Among the U.S. interventions in this city are the Water Security for Resilient Economic Growth and Stability (Be Secure) project; skills training for out-of-school youth under the Mindanao Youth for Development, wildlife trafficking assistance, and improving the city government’s operations in centralizing and streamlining business permit processing.

“We have a very big support from the U.S. government through the USAID,” Salazar said.

The U.S. ambassador, who declined to be interviewed by the media, also went to visit Camp Navarro to talk with U.S. troops and top Filipino military officials there.

Camp Navarro houses the Western Mindanao Command (Westmincom) headquarters in this city.

The U.S. government has maintained a small contingent with around 100 soldiers in this city to help the Philippine military in anti-terrorist operations by way of providing intelligence, monitoring capabilities, and technical training.

The U.S. facility inside Camp Navarro used to be the base of the defunct Joint Special Operations Task Force-Philippines (JSOTFP).

The presence of the U.S. troops here began at the height of the global war on terror in 2001 under the “Balikatan” military exercise program.

 

[samsara]

Guys @kecho is now posting a news article from 21 oct 2015

@kecho must be in desperate mode to push forward his narration lines

Just in case any one has missed earlier this authoritative position outlined by the govt of China

CHINA'S WHITE PAPER BRIEF INTRO

Vice Foreign Minister Liu Zhenmin at the Press Conference on the White Paper Titled China Adheres to the Position of Settling Through Negotiation the Relevant Disputes Between China and the Philippines in the South China Sea

2016/07/13

On 13 July 2016, the State Council Information Office (SCIO) held a press conference on the white paper titled China Adheres to the Position of Settling Through Negotiation the Relevant Disputes Between China and the Philippines in the South China Sea hosted by Vice Minister and Spokesperson of SCIO Guo Weimin. Vice Foreign Minister Liu Zhenmin attended the press conference, briefed the audience on the white paper and took questions from the press.

The first part is that Nanhai Zhudao are China's inherent territory. The activities of the Chinese people in the South China Sea date back to over 2,000 years ago. China is the first to have discovered and named, and explored and exploited Nanhai Zhudao and the South China Sea, and the first to have continuously, peacefully and effectively exercised sovereignty and jurisdiction over Nanhai Zhudao. China's sovereignty over Nanhai Zhudao and the relevant rights and interests in the South China Sea have been established in the long course of history.​

During its war of aggression against China, Japan invaded and illegally occupied Nanhai Zhudao. After the end of World War II, the Cairo Declaration and the Potsdam Proclamation as well as a series of post-war international documents stipulated that all territories Japan had stolen should be returned to China. Accordingly, after World War II, China recovered Taiwan, Penghu Islands, Xisha Qundao and Nansha Qundao which belong to China in the first place. After the resumption of the exercise of sovereignty over Nanhai Zhudao, China drew up the relevant map with the dotted line, and published the map to the world in 1948. So the dotted line has been there since 1948.

Since its founding, the People's Republic of China has further upheld its sovereignty over Nanhai Zhudao and the relevant rights and interests in the South China Sea. China has never stopped patrolling Nanhai Zhudao and relevant waters as well as law enforcement, resource development and scientific survey activities there. Nanhai Zhudao have been widely recognized as a part of China's territory by the international community after World War II, which constitutes an integral part of post-war territorial arrangement and international order. Encyclopedias, yearbooks and maps published in many countries after the war all mark the Nansha Qundao as Chinese territory.​

This authoritative press conference was attended by the familiar names at which they also threw in questions: Reuters; BBC; CNN in addition to those heavyweights within the Chinese media ecosystem.

READ THE FULL ARTICLE AT: http://www.fmprc.gov.cn/mfa_eng/wjbxw/t1381980.shtml


Note: The term Nanhai Zhudao 南海诸岛 refers to the entire islands/islets/atolls in the South China Sea under China's sovereignty.

​

 

[TaiShang]

Guys @kecho is now posting a news article from 21 oct 2015

At least he takes out the date from the article before submitting to fool people.

At least he tries.

 

[cochine]

Trump’s World and the South China Sea
How the president responds to China’s provocations could prove decisive for the region.

By Tetsuo Kotani
January 25, 2017

Donald J. Trump is now president of the United States, one known for his “America First” position. What impact might that have on disputes in the South China Sea?

On December 4, 2016, the president-elect tweeted, in reference to China’s construction of artificial islands for military purposes in the South China Sea, “Did China ask for our permission?” Still, it is premature to conclude that Trump will really take a harder line on China than the Obama administration has over the South China Sea issue. The tweet may simply have been Trump firing back at China for criticizing his telephone conversation with Taiwanese President Tsai Ing-wen two days earlier. Also, China’s seizure of a U.S. Navy’s underwater drone in the South China Sea later that month was not a sufficient test of Trump’s South China Policy, although he criticized the incident on Twitter.

From the very beginning of his presidential campaign, Trump has viewed China not through a national security lens, but primarily as an economic competitor and as a challenge. He sees China as a currency manipulator that is taking jobs and wealth away from Americans through an increasing trade deficit. He also accuses China of stealing industrial secrets through cyberattacks and thinks that if the U.S. eliminates the trade deficit with China and applies economic pressure, China will stop reclaiming reefs in the South China Sea.

Enjoying this article? Click here to subscribe for full access. Just $5 a month.
Yet Trump simultaneously does not appear to be a believer in the Thucydides trap (which posits that confrontation between an emerging power and an existing power is inevitable). He has said that he would aim for peaceful coexistence with China and seek to build relations based on common interests. This is not incompatible with the “new type of major country relations” which China has been calling for under President Xi Jinping.

The top foreign policy priority for the Trump administration will be containing Islamic extremists such as the Islamic State. Trump has said he will significantly expand U.S. military power, increasing the Army’s numbers from 490,000 to 540,000, fighter jets from 1,113 to at least 1,200, Marines from 23 battalions to 36 battalions, and surface vessels and submarines in the U.S. Navy from 276 to 350.

It is not yet clear what policy the Trump administration will take with respect to the South China Sea and what role this expanded military force will play in the region. The Chinese leadership is perhaps the most keen to know. China has a history of testing the crisis response capabilities of incoming U.S. administrations. In April 2001, soon after the inauguration of the administration of George W. Bush, a Chinese fighter jet collided with a U.S. EP-3 reconnaissance airplane over international waters off Hainan Island, which severely strained relations. At that time, China demanded an apology from the United States and succeeded in drawing an expression of regret from the Bush administration. In March 2009, soon after Barack Obama had taken over the presidency, Chinese warships, government-owned vessels and fishing vessels obstructed the navigation of USNS Impeccable, an ocean surveillance ship, in the South China Sea. The Obama administration responded by dispatching the guided missile destroyed USS Chung-Hoon to protect the Impeccable.

So it would not be at all surprising if China were to try some kind of provocation once Donald Trump takes office. Since China saw its claims to the South China Sea voted down by the International Court of Arbitration based on the U.N. Convention of the Law of the Sea, Beijing has ostensibly been refraining from provocative acts. But it has continued to build facilities on the artificial islands it has created.

Rather than the South China Sea, China could test the Trump administration and the strength of the U.S.-Japan alliance in the East China Sea. This would no doubt please Philippines President Rodrigo Duterte, who has been keen to make overtures to China. Alternatively, Beijing may target Taiwan, to punish Tsai for her phone call with Trump in addition to the recent demonstration deployment of its aircraft carrier in the South China Sea.

The Trump administration could avoid a major rupture in U.S.-Sino relations by responding rationally to any provocation, while emphasizing freedom of navigation and the peaceful resolution of conflicts. It could also go too far in its response, and put itself on the path to confrontation. Or perhaps it will tacitly condone China’s domination of the South China Sea in exchange for the elimination of the trade deficit, placing the emphasis on the peaceful coexistence of the two countries.

Whichever path it takes, Trump’s response to the likely Chinese provocations will become a major factor in determining the future of the South China Sea.

Tetsuo Kotani is Senior Fellow at The Japan Institute of International Affairs.

 

[samsara]

China urges Japan not to stir up troubles on South China Sea issue

Source: Xinhua | 2017-03-16 19:54:06 | Editor: huaxia

Foreign Ministry spokesperson Hua Chunying (Photo source: fmprc.gov.cn)​

BEIJING, March 16 (Xinhua) -- A Foreign Ministry spokesperson on Thursday urged Japan to respect related countries' efforts to maintain peace and stability on the South China Sea, and to refrain from causing trouble in the region.

At a routine press briefing, spokesperson Hua Chunying was asked to comment on reports that Japan's lzumo warship will go to the South China Sea for drills.

The South China Sea issue has improved since last year thanks to the efforts of China and ASEAN countries, Hua said, adding that some non-regional countries should respect measures by regional countries to maintain peace and stability on the South China Sea.

Hua said Japan was focused on its own interests and had inflamed the issue recently, much to the dissatisfaction of the Chinese people.

If the Japanese side still refuses to realize its error and play up regional tensions, China will definitely respond to any action that harm China's sovereignty and security, Hua said.

Japan is not a party to the South China Sea issue and Japan had invaded and occupied China's Xisha Islands and Nansha Islands in the past, Hua said, urging Japan to remember history and mind its words and steps.

Hua added that Japan should not do any harm to the regional peace and stability any longer.

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2017-03/16/c_136134407.htm

 

[cochine]

AUSTRALIA HITS MILITARY STRUCTURES IN SOUTH CHINA SEA
Posted on March 17, 2017

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Australian Foreign Minister Julie Bishop on Thursday hit on China’s militarisation of man-made islands in the South China Sea saying the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN) should use ruling as basis for ‘code of conduct.’

Speaking at a forum of the ADR Institute for Strategic and International Studies in Manila, Bishop said Australia did not take sides in the South China Sea disputes, but it wanted to see “de-escalation of tension”, reiterating its opposition to China’s militarisation of man-made islands in the waters.

“Australia opposes the scale of reclamation and reconstruction that has occurred and certainly we do not support militarisation by any party of the islands and the other features in the South China Sea because it would raise tensions, it would raise the prospect of conflict,” Bishop said.

“We should all advocate for its preservation and be prepared to defend it, even fight for it, should that be necessary,” she added.

She suggested that the 12 July verdict by the Permanent Court of Arbitration could be taken as the basis for the set of rules that are to be followed by the warring parties to avoid conflict in the international waterway.

The tribunal rejected China’s sweeping claims in the disputed water and ruled in favour of the Philippines, which brought the case to The Hague. It ruled that Beijing had no legal basis and that it violated the rights of Filipino fishermen at Scarborough Shoal.
http://tankler.com/australia-hits-on-scxss-structures-in-south-china-seadcxcxczcx-13472

 

[samsara]

Australia’s pragmatic South China Sea policy best for our region

BOB CARR
The Australian - March 18, 2017

It’s a reasonable bet Australians would be more comfortable with a democratic China; that is, a China boasting competing political parties in an elected legislature, buttressed by robust freedom of expression.

Foreign Minister Julie Bishop’s remarks in Singapore on Monday (3/13) on the value of democracy, aimed at China, are the kind of thing that may be laid down for the record — once in a while — before resuming normal diplomacy. A country with thousands of years of cultural continuity won’t change its political system because of lectures by Westerners. US Democrat Nancy Pelosi spoke in the early 1990s of China introducing freedom of expression under American pressure. Henry Kissinger commented wryly on this naive notion that pressure from the US congress could produce “freedom of speech and the press, which has never existed in five millennia”.

China is undergoing a demanding economic transition to lift 850 million more people into the middle class by 2030. It is bold and risky. China’s leaders are unlikely to choose this moment to surrender their authority. China will liberalise if its middle class begins to expect it, as in Singapore or South Korea, or a reformist leader sponsors it, as in Taiwan or Myanmar.

Right now the West has chosen to deal with China as it is, pragmatically drawing it into global governance. Australia, too, is running a pragmatic China policy. The most striking proof is the South China Sea.

To the disappointment of Australia’s hawks, it is plain as a pikestaff that Australia will not be running US-style patrols there. Last month Bishop met US Secretary of State Rex Tillerson. According to The Australian Financial Review, she told him: “Australia will not change its past behaviour in the South China Sea and not escalate tensions with Beijing.”

Despite speculation on two occasions, Australia has not attempted to recruit Indonesia for patrols. Bishop categorically ruled this out in Jakarta on March 6. Note the significance of this. As with our decision to join the China-sponsored Asian Infrastructure Investment Bank, Australia is saying no to US attempts to enlist us to an anti-Chinese posture. Perhaps the lecture on democracy provides cover.

Yet 18 months ago it had looked almost inevitable that Australia would be recruited to challenge China’s island-building. Three US admirals — their brass glinting and medals tinkling — had dropped strong hints.

As recently as last December, Admiral Harry B. Harris urged Australia to run its own freedom-of-navigation operations.

For Canberra, the proposition was problematic on two grounds.

First, no other American friend, partner or ally — not India, Japan or any European nation — had the remotest interest in jamming its navies into the 12-nautical mile radius around China’s claimed territory. We would be the only one, typecast as a gallant and gullible ally. Second, Canberra had to consider the views of Southeast Asian countries, on whose behalf we would be challenging China.

And they were all dealing with China. According to Chinese sources, Philippines President Rodrigo Duterte went to Beijing on October 19 to seek an alliance with China, despite China’s non-alignment policy. China has been astute enough to allow Philippines fishing vessels access to waters around Scarborough Shoal, which lies within The Philippines’ exclusive economic zone.

Just as striking, Vietnam also has decided to seek a diplomatic accommodation with China over maritime territorial disputes. Following the visit to Beijing in January by Nguyen Phu Trong, General Secretary of the Vietnamese Communist Party, both countries issued a joint communique pledging to “manage well their maritime difference”.

Against this background the Canberra orthodoxy was captured by Angus Houston, former Australian Defence Force chief, in a speech last month. He came down against the notion of freedom-of-navigation operations, arguing they “could provoke a response, a military response”, and added: “I think it’s all about diplomacy in the first instance.”

His views were endorsed by Defence Minister Marise Payne as a “constructive contribution”. A top military man says it would be foolish to run these patrols and the Defence Minister endorses his comments: cue heartfelt lamentations among Australian Cold Warriors, tears of frustration in the staff cafeteria at the Australian Strategic Policy Institute.

Australian diplomacy should be directed at leading the Trump administration to pragmatic engagement with China and urging China to freeze militarisation of its artificial islands — doing so with the extra clout we enjoy because the Chinese know we have so far declined patrols with the US but could always change our minds.

For its part, China is handling the Trump administration with restraint, as a survey of its media responses to Donald Trump confirms. This survey, conducted by the Australia-China Relations Institute, shows Chinese official opinion is eager for dialogue with the Americans. Presidents Trump and Xi Jinping are scheduled to talk at Mar-a-Lago in Florida next month.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/inquirer/australias-pragmatic-south-china-sea-policy-best-for-our-region/news-story/f1991e69f3b4e1b35ca14c05ea99fd71?nk=5efc650c66ee6a628db22ff24d8ac255-1489841927

 

[cochine]

Turbulence in South China Sea: India Offers Missile to Vietnam
© AFP 2017/ JUNG YEON-JE
ASIA & PACIFIC
20:00 09.01.2017Get short URL
45213215428
India is an old friend of Vietnam and both don't subscribe to China's claim in the South China Sea. That is the reason for raised eyebrows over India's offer to supply missiles to Vietnam.
New Delhi (Sputnik) — India has offered to supply indigenously developed Akash missile to Vietnam at a time when both countries are talking of China's growing assertiveness in the Asia-Pacific region.

© PHOTO: YOUTUBE/DEFENSENEWSX
India to Test Nuclear-Capable Submarine-Launched Ballistic Missile
In fact, India has been helping Vietnam's defence modernization when it is trying in confrontation with China on the South China Sea issue. It recently underwrote the costs of four patrol boats that it will build especially for Vietnam.


Akash is a medium range air-to-air missile system developed by India's Defense Research and Development Organization (DRDO). Akash has the capacity to destroy targets up to 30 km away.

Initially, India will supply the missiles off-the-shelf to Vietnam and could later into a joint production arrangement.

Vietnam has been a close Indian ally in South East Asia and Prime Minister Narendra Modi's visit to Vietnam last year saw both countries elevating their strategic partnership to a comprehensive strategic partnership.

India-Vietnam defense ties are an important aspect of their strategic partnership. Earlier, India had offered to supply naval vessels to Vietnam as well as the BrahMos supersonic cruise missile. India also trains Vietnamese fighter pilots as both countries mainly operate Russian fighter jets.

"It's a part of India-Vietnam defense cooperation. Supplying of Akash missiles by India to Vietnam is very small in caparison to what China had supplied to Pakistan. But it's a beginning," Srikant Kondapalli, Professor of Chinese Studies in Jawahar Lal University in New Delhi told Sputnik.
https://sputniknews.com/asia/201701091049409735-india-vietnam-missile-south-china-sea/

 

[terranMarine]

A possible weapon sale from India to Vietnam can now even be found on this thread? @kecho do you understand what this thread is all about?