Society, Women and Behashti Zewar

[Zarvan]

Zarvan I have no idea of your history on this forum, people label you TTP supporter and whatever (ALLAH knows better), my problem with you is your misdirected energy only. You are lot better Muslim, lot better human than me and you have lot more knowledge than me, just adopt some softness and don't shoot down questions of people by labeling them liars, advising them to read this and that first and than talk to me. My advice and two cents rest is your Mrazi.

Now coming to the point there is no moderate or extremist Islam, there is just Islam so forget about me advocating moderate Islam (May ALLAH forgive me), I don't hold authority over Islam neither Islam needs me for its representation or propagation, I am nobody as far as Islam is considered. Musharraf did what he could to save and extend his rule. And people who criticize Jihad well are illiterates for me and people who are practicing jihad these days are a slap on face of Muslims that this is what happens when you play with your religion and let a section become its thekaydar.

TTP and ISIS can be countered there is no rocket science to it, it just needs will and questioning and abolishing these false ownership of religion, religious scholars are liable more than anyone else for all this chaos and misinformation we see, nobody amongst them is willing to take charge and say "hey look half of the information being fed as religion is false" Molvi sb. can have all my respect but he cannot own my life, sorry and it should be his duty on Friday to conduct Q & A sessions instead of him speaking of his choice to a gathering. This chaos is because we have stopped asking question and shooting down people who would ask questions. Islam was never a closed system, "Deen may koi sakhti nai" does not mean I can skip my prayers, it means let them come seeking information and don't make them run away by your conduct.

Seriously I have no idea about who Mubarik Ali is and who Ashraf Thanvi is, I have no interest in history, my interest is religion that I follow and that ends at the day Prophet Muhammad (Peace be him) departed from this world, anything beyond that point presented and being fed to me as religion, I will criticise it and ask questions about its authenticity and will trash it if its propaganda to malign Islam . For that matter if anyone calls me infidel, terrorist, moderate Islamist, secular, munafiq, murtid he can and I don't care.

I would keep calling that historian liar because he blatantly lies he many times have blame Muslims of events which never took place he is known for his lies and massively distorted historic facts. Now yes Islam is Quran and Sunnah than way of Sahaba as a group if Mubarak Ali says something or Molana it would be judged and than accepted or rejected on bases of Quran and Sunnah.

 

[syedali73]

That is exactly the problem with them, they are way more peaceful than they should be or is required. In fact many tableeghis get really pissed of from their jamat because of this extraordinary peaceful behaviour.

So what you want from them? to take up weapons and start massacring those who do not tend to agree with their approach? You were a terrorist sympathizer, you will remain one.

@WebMaster @Oscar @Horus @Jango @Jungibaaz @waz Please educate me why this terrorist apologist is being tolerated here?

 

[Secur]

So what you want from them? to take up weapons and start massacring those who do not tend to agree with their approach? You were a terrorist sympathizer, you will remain one.

@WebMaster @Oscar @Horus @Jango @Jungibaaz @waz Please educate me why this terrorist apologist is being tolerated here?

After one or two seemingly moderate post, he's back to his normal self. I have deleted that post thoug, we aren't exactly willing to teach people more violence than they already know.

 

[syedali73]

Tableeghis, well most of my family is associated with Tableeghi jamat , I don't know why they are so "Badnam" but I don't find their prominent Council members / leaders / Buzurgs involved in advocating killing and attacking others. They have difference of opinion with many even with Ahl E Hadees but violence is not promoted or preached, they discourage having debates with others about sect, I have been in quite a lot of Tableeghi gatherings, in fact sometimes I think of them as Khasi Mullahs , they don't speak against any aggression, they have such a huge street power but they don't use it to influence politics, policies or whatever. The followers and people joining them are a different story, seen many with an attitude and action that is totally opposite to what they try preach others.

Two events made me separate my ways from Tableeghi jamaat (yes at one point I was interested in learning religion from them).

1. Tableeghis came to my house and ask myself and my father to go to mosque so they could share good things. We complied. In the mosque they went on telling us a story like this: Please do good deeds for those who do good deeds, Allah orders the angels to erect a palace in the heavens. The palace is 1 miles long and 1 miles wide. The palace has 70 rooms and each room has 7 windows, each one of which would be guarded by two angels. By this time, my father had had enough of it. He said: "Moulana sahib, I have only one wife, what I will do with a palace that is 1 mile long and 1 mile wide. Besides for two of us, one room is enough rather than a palace of 70 rooms. Moreover, I do not want to live with my wife in a room that has 7 windows and two angels peeping through each window.

Point is, my father was fed up with all those claims that he found absurd and unnecessary to cajole someone to do good deeds. He always advised me to worship to Allah neither in the fear of hell nor in the lust of heaven but purely because Allah is our creator and it is his right that his beings worship him.

2. I went to say prayers in a mosque. At the end of jamaat, the moulvi sahib made us to stay for a jamaat had just returned back from Africa and he wanted us to hear them. The leader of the jamaat went on telling this story: We went to Africa, and passed through a very poor country. We met a person and we invited him to embrace Islam that he did gladly. We invited him to join our jamaat so he could also take part in tableegh. He told us that he had 3 wives, and he ran a small shop. He would make his wives to run the shop while he'll come with us to serve Islam.

By the time I reached to this point, I was done with these people. I asked the leader of the gang: What is more important in Mohamed (PBUH) Islam? To take care of your family and feed them or to leave them behind on their own and go for tableegh? Secondly, a person who has just embraced Islam needs lots of learning. How on earth such a naïve person would spread Islam whereas he himself does not know about it? Neither the leader not the Moulvi sahib of the mosque had any answer. They just said that I did not not know and that I should make 'Touba'.

Well, my friend, this is Tableeghi jamaat and this is where they are fundamentally wrong. We need quality, not quantity. Half-baked Muslims or Mullah are the last things we need for they do more harm to Islam and Muslim community than good.

 

[Slav Defence]

@Secur and others...
My two cents:
Humans are universe themselves and you need to understand universe to utilize it for good.Whether we talk about girls or boys,both are genetically and scientifically an alternative form of human.This means that they might differ in psychology,biology,physiology and requirements,but they have various similarities as well which made them compatible to live with each other,thus ignoring differences.
Religion are introduced by Allah to define those differences and to teach them for how to handle and live with it.The problem with mullahs is that they keep on recalling females that they differ with men,that is why they should never sit,talk and interact with boys.The so called feminist,liberal NGOs also recall females for the whole time that how much they differ with with their ''y'' counterparts and why they must compete with them.
No body ever focused[specially mullahs] on Allah's teachings for men.Religions(no matter what) also taught men that how they differ with females and what is the code of conduct they must live.
coming towards this book,I would like to say that there is nothing wrong with teaching females to be soft and calm with rowdy,rough life mates.However,guidelines for men were never much discussed and ignored because men were only authorized to handle religious matters.That why bro,you can see in extracts that females are only advised to show tolerance and tolerate all crap they are up to.
For a powerful and functional society,it is essential to teach both men and women of their responsibilities and differences so that together they could lay foundation of sustainable social environment in which none were suppressed nor harassed[both men and women]
About this author and his criticism I will both agree and disagree.Some parts of this book regarding to various problems are great.However,with other parts,I too disagree.
Regards

 

[Bratva]

Please take some time to read it. I am giving you a link here that can be used to download all 11 parts of Bahishti Zewar. It is manual that covers almost every aspect of life. Please go through it, and then if you do not like it, sack it. I wonder if you have read books from Deputy Nazeer Ahmed? Again, you have to read it before commenting on it. The books is huge and commenting on its select portions wont do justice with it.

Bahishti Zewar (Complete 11 Parts) By Maulana Ashraf Ali Thanvi | Free Pdf Books

@Indus Falcon

People don't understand the role played by likes of Deputy Nazeer ahmed and Ashraf Ali thanvi in their respective times. They wrote their respective pieces so to make ordinary muslim well versed in matters of Deen and Duniya. The muslims of that era were as superstitious and ignorant about Islam as poor people of Inner sindh are.

 

[syedali73]

People don't understand the role played by likes of Deputy Nazeer ahmed and Ashraf Ali thanvi in their respective times. They wrote their respective times so to make ordinary muslim well versed in matters of Deen and Duniya. The muslims of that era were as superstitious and ignorant about Islam as poor people of Inner sindh are.

True enough. Notable contribution was also made by Allama Rashid ul Khairi, and later by his son Mr. Raziq ul Khairi, editor monthly Ismat. In Pakistan, I had work of all these people in my personal library.

 

[Zarvan]

So what you want from them? to take up weapons and start massacring those who do not tend to agree with their approach? You were a terrorist sympathizer, you will remain one.

@WebMaster @Oscar @Horus @Jango @Jungibaaz @waz Please educate me why this terrorist apologist is being tolerated here?

Please when I said that what I am saying is they keep their mouth shut on every issue weather Afghanistan or Iraq or Burma they don't say a single word yet alone any protest.

 

[Slav Defence]

Please when I said that what I am saying is they keep their mouth shut on every issue weather Afghanistan or Iraq or Burma they don't say a single word yet alone any protest.

Mr.Zarvan,
Keeping everything aside,in few lines and phrases kindly summarize your idea for an ideal society.
Regards

 

[I.R.A]

Two events made me separate my ways from Tableeghi jamaat (yes at one point I was interested in learning religion from them).

1. Tableeghis came to my house and ask myself and my father to go to mosque so they could share good things. We complied. In the mosque they went on telling us a story like this: Please do good deeds for those who do good deeds, Allah orders the angels to erect a palace in the heavens. The palace is 1 miles long and 1 miles wide. The palace has 70 rooms and each room has 7 windows, each one of which would be guarded by two angels. By this time, my father had had enough of it. He said: "Moulana sahib, I have only one wife, what I will do with a palace that is 1 mile long and 1 mile wide. Besides for two of us, one room is enough rather than a palace of 70 rooms. Moreover, I do not want to live with my wife in a room that has 7 windows and two angels peeping through each window.

Point is, my father was fed up with all those claims that he found absurd and unnecessary to cajole someone to do good deeds. He always advised me to worship to Allah neither in the fear of hell nor in the lust of heaven but purely because Allah is our creator and it is his right that his beings worship him.

2. I went to say prayers in a mosque. At the end of jamaat, the moulvi sahib made us to stay for a jamaat had just returned back from Africa and he wanted us to hear them. The leader of the jamaat went on telling this story: We went to Africa, and passed through a very poor country. We met a person and we invited him to embrace Islam that he did gladly. We invited him to join our jamaat so he could also take part in tableegh. He told us that he had 3 wives, and he ran a small shop. He would make his wives to run the shop while he'll come with us to serve Islam.

By the time I reached to this point, I was done with these people. I asked the leader of the gang: What is more important in Mohamed (PBUH) Islam? To take care of your family and feed them or to leave them behind on their own and go for tableegh? Secondly, a person who has just embraced Islam needs lots of learning. How on earth such a naïve person would spread Islam whereas he himself does not know about it? Neither the leader not the Moulvi sahib of the mosque had any answer. They just said that I did not not know and that I should make 'Touba'.

Well, my friend, this is Tableeghi jamaat and this is where they are fundamentally wrong. We need quality, not quantity. Half-baked Muslims or Mullah are the last things we need for they do more harm to Islam and Muslim community than good.

Shuker karo Syed Sb. app ko apny saman may 10, 10 kilo k dumble kay sath 2 km chal kay tashkeel wali jaga nai jana para warna app to in tableeghio ka sir phar daity. Bohat zalim hain yeh they forced me for a sairoza when we were going on winter vacation once upon a time in my boarding school days, and unfortunately my luggage included those weights

Why not let women of Pakistan take charge of matters, let us see what they make of it, we men can retire for sometime, party and let the women take charge. I hope when we resume yeh galia yeh chobary won't be painted in Surkhi powder, or missiles won't be carrying an aina and a hand bag .

Baychari aurtain, muzloom, dukho ki mari , they deserve this.

 

[Spring Onion]

A relevant book for its time. Mr Mubarak Ali is trying to dissect this book from today's perspective, which is wrong. There was a time when this book was indeed given to every bride (belonging to Deobandi School of thought) but now it is not that common. It may still be given to this day but do not expect English -medium (even those from Urdu medium) brides to go through it and submit themselves as slaves to their husbands.

Mubarak saheb is talking about feudal system and declaring Moulana Ashraf Ali Thanvi as a representative and protector of the system; I am not sure if Mubarak saheb really understands a typical indian Muslims household belonging to old feudal system. Well, let me enlighten him for my family belongs to such a feudal system, a system that practically provides a woman with plenty of servants that would carry out all the household chores. I have seen my grand mother, aunts, and mother to rule like queens and princesses, who were available with an army of servants to serve them and their men. What Mubarak sahib is saying may be true for lower or lower middle class Indian family but certainly not for middle or upper middle class families. Women were salves to their husband... I can only laugh on this claim and his general knowledge on this subject.

I have read Behishti Zewar completely and repeatedly and while there is some objectionable material (as per today's norms and standards) there are many more good things, which Mubarak saheb has totally omitted in his analysis, a hallmark of intellectual dishonesty.

There is no need to ridicule a book like this. Nobody is asking you to give it to your daughter as part of her dowry.

I have this book in my library along with dozens of classic english literature and science books, English modern novels and some Urdu novel but i never dared to read Bahisthi zewar due to same fear which Mubarik ali is creating in minds of readers .

 

[syedali73]

I have this book in my library along with dozens of classic english literature and science books, English modern novels and some Urdu novel but i never dared to read Bahisthi zewar due to same fear which Mubarik ali is creating in minds of readers .

Please donate it to some library or pass on to someone who could make good use of this book.

 

[I.R.A]

You people are really into serious stuff, my collection includes only and only "Naseem Hijazi" the rest, some of them I read but never thought to buy and keep with me, but Naseem Hijazi sb. ki bat he kuch alag thi

 

[Zarvan]

I have this book in my library along with dozens of classic english literature and science books, English modern novels and some Urdu novel but i never dared to read Bahisthi zewar due to same fear which Mubarik ali is creating in minds of readers .

I suggest you that the books you have read are okay but as Muslim try to read at least two Tafseers and books on Seerat and Sahabas and aqeedah and other Islamic books.

 

[Zarvan]

I have this book in my library along with dozens of classic english literature and science books, English modern novels and some Urdu novel but i never dared to read Bahisthi zewar due to same fear which Mubarik ali is creating in minds of readers .

These Mubarak Ali illiterate can't say directly otherwise they have issues with Quran too.