Sino-Pakistan Relations - Really Not Good as Shown

[ajtr]

When the Indian Defence minister called China your number 1 enemy, you Indians created a self-fulfilling prophecy.

indians i think relish the prophecies hence they always sprout out many such prophecies.some come true some not.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Genuine interest, China see Pakistan as its gateway to Gulf. They built Gwadar and now Karakoram. See the link, the investment is where they can get access to Gulf. They needed a port and road link to Gulf. Chinese always put their nation's interest first, just like any other nation.
WHat they could

Not just a link to the Persian Gulf via Gwadar.

Pakistan can also provide us a land-link to the Middle East for pipelines.

Pakistan is also on the border of our Xinjiang province, so they can (and have) helped us with ETIM and other militant groups.

Pakistan is also our representative in the Muslim world, and can speak for us in the OIC when something unfortunate happens (like the Xinjiang riots four years ago).

They are also our gateway to the Muslim nations of the Middle East and Central Asia, who's resources we will come to depend on in the future.

 

[KRAIT]

When the Indian Defence minister called China your number 1 enemy, you Indians created a self-fulfilling prophecy.

I just hope it turns out the way you expected it to.

Not number one enemy, but number one challenge in defense. You have built railway links to Tibet near our borders by which you can send your forces within few days. What do you think we should take it as. A friendship gesture coz you are not going to use that link for trade.

WHy they done the same in border at Arunachal Pradesh. We would be an idiot if we don't look your advances in these regions as security threat. Isn't it a common sense.

Russia made such a hue and cry when US is installing missile defense at their western front. Is their concern not valid.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Not number one enemy, but number one challenge in defense. You have built railway links to Tibet near our borders by which you can send your forces within few days. What do you think we should take it as. A friendship gesture coz you are not going to use that link for trade.

WHy they done the same in border at Arunachal Pradesh. We would be an idiot if we don't look your advances in these regions as security threat. Isn't it a common sense.

Russia made such a hue and cry when US is installing missile defense at their western front. Is their concern not valid.

Buddy there is a pretty big difference between being "prepared" (which every country should do).... and openly declaring another nation as your number 1 enemy.

Even America and Russia don't do that to each other.

And check my previous posts, I have always supported India's right to increase their defences on their side of the border.

 

[RazPaK]

China asked Pakistan to take against Islamic extremists on Pakistan' soil who are helping Uigher extremists. Read news mate. Read China's media. You seriously need to read a lot.

There is a great game going on that you Indians have no idea about. The Pakistanis know what is going on. And the Chinese know what it is going on. It will be great to see Indian internet warriors talk about this 20-30 years from now, but we already know. Despite having citizens attacked within Pakistan, have the Chinese been harsh with Pakistan?

No.

Why is that?


They already know about the game.

India has never been able to carry out "covert" agent vinod attacks upon Pakistan. What it has done and continues to due is hire and fund mercenaries to destabilize the country. I can either explain this to you, or have you deny it by trying to rationalize it to me. It makes no difference. GoP and the government of China already know what is going on.

And yes, your consulates do stir trouble in the Chinese Xinjiang province. Our intelligence officials have already clarified it to our Chinese counter parts.

 

[Kyusuibu Honbu]

Not number one enemy, but number one challenge in defense. You have built railway links to Tibet near our borders by which you can send your forces within few days. What do you think we should take it as. A friendship gesture coz you are not going to use that link for trade.

WHy they done the same in border at Arunachal Pradesh. We would be an idiot if we don't look your advances in these regions as security threat. Isn't it a common sense.

Russia made such a hue and cry when US is installing missile defense at their western front. Is their concern not valid.

He is referring to Geroge Fernandes 's statement after Indian nuclear test in 1999.

Which has no significance today.

 

[KRAIT]

Not just a link to the Persian Gulf via Gwadar.

Pakistan can also provide us a land-link to the Middle East for pipelines.

Pakistan is also on the border of our Xinjiang province, so they can (and have) helped us with ETIM and other militant groups.

Pakistan is also our representative in the Muslim world, and can speak for us in the OIC when something unfortunate happens (like the Xinjiang riots four years ago).

They are also our gateway to the Muslim nations of the Middle East and Central Asia, who's resources we will come to depend on in the future.

Agreed but Pakistanis no longer needed for China to make other relations with these countries. You have 3 trillion dollars in reserve for crying out loud. You are the second largest world power. Do you really think China needs Pakistan for relations with Gulf except physical access.

You brought Xinjaing province. Wasn't China the one who asked Pakistan to take out Islamic terrorists present on their soil ?
BBC News - China urges Pakistan to expel Uighur Islamic militants

I agree with the gateway but again you just need their land and stable Pakistan so that there won't be any possible threat to your link with Gulf.

You also have interest in vast resources Pakistan has which Pakistan itself hasn't mined themselves. Also Pakistan is needed for your investment in Afghanistan and transportation of those resources.

Like I said, Chinese are master businessmen. No country has achieved so much faster than you. Its just because you know what is best for your national interest like every super power on earth.

 

[Kyusuibu Honbu]

And yes, your consulates do stir trouble in the Chinese Xinjiang province. Our intelligence officials have already clarified it to our Chinese counter parts.

My My, this all news to us, i wondering when the blame would come upon us Indians


Do your intelligence officials see a CIA/ Mossad hand as well

 

[Desert Fox]

Sir this isn't the question, now you come to why Pakistan don't help themselves ? Has Pakistan not asked China to invest in Pakistan and help it in boosting its growth, then why the result is not there ?

Because the projects are left incomplete or they are delayed. For example the Gwadar port was supposed to be fully functional and ships should have been arriving in numbers, dropping off goods however only a few ships arrived and the necessary infrastructure is either incomplete and currently undergoing construction or just left incomplete, this is what i know from what i have gathered through reading numerous articles and members posts on this very forum, i can't say for sure what the ground realities are. Gwadar was supposedly going to rival Dubai.

These are a few of the millions of problems within Pakistan, from top to bottom corruption and incompetency has plagued every aspect of Pakistani society. Add to that the law and order situation, many Chinese workers were kidnapped or shot due to lack of competent security measures.

My question is this. They give Pakistan money on soft loan. But its a loan again. While US as given in billions without any interest.

Because there's a difference between China-Pak relations and Pak-US relations. Personally i believe the Chinese are still hesitant in putting their complete trust in Pakistan, be it in the army or the gov.t and its quite understandable actually since Pakistan as a nation can sell out its own sovereignty and people for a few billions then who are the Chinese with their interests??

I agree with that commoners know this, but read most of the posts by 90% of posters, they are commoners too.

You can't really judge a whole nation based on forum posts. Besides, i knew Pakistan gov.t and army would eventually capitulate to NATO demands and i believe i have posted that here quite a few times before the blockade was lifted.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Agreed but Pakistanis no longer needed for China to make other relations with these countries. You have 3 trillion dollars in reserve for crying out loud. You are the second largest world power. Do you really think China needs Pakistan for relations with Gulf except physical access.

You brought Xinjaing province. Wasn't China the one who asked Pakistan to take out Islamic terrorists present on their soil ?
BBC News - China urges Pakistan to expel Uighur Islamic militants

I agree with the gateway but again you just need their land and stable Pakistan so that there won't be any possible threat to your link with Gulf.

You also have interest in vast resources Pakistan has which Pakistan itself hasn't mined themselves. Also Pakistan is needed for your investment in Afghanistan and transportation of those resources.

Like I said, Chinese are master businessmen. No country has achieved so much faster than you. Its just because you know what is best for your national interest like every super power on earth.

We will never be a superpower, at least I hope not.

But the sheer size of China by itself means that we are in desperate need of resources. It so happens that the most resource-rich regions in the world are primarily Islamic regions (Middle East and Central Asia)... which means we cannot afford to have bad relations with the Islamic world.

Pakistan is one of the foremost powers in the Muslim world, and they are also the only Muslim nation to have nuclear weapons. If they are on our side, everything will be much easier. And this is not even taking into account their strategic location.

 

[KRAIT]

There is a great game going on that you Indians have no idea about. The Pakistanis know what is going on. And the Chinese know what it is going on. It will be great to see Indian internet warriors talk about this 20-30 years from now, but we already know. Despite having citizens attacked within Pakistan, have the Chinese been harsh with Pakistan?

No.

Why is that?


They already know about the game.

India has never been able to carry out "covert" agent vinod attacks upon Pakistan. What it has done and continues to due is hire and fund mercenaries to destabilize the country. I can either explain this to you, or have you deny it by trying to rationalize it to me. It makes no difference. GoP and the government of China already know what is going on.

And yes, your consulates do stir trouble in the Chinese Xinjiang province. Our intelligence officials have already clarified it to our Chinese counter parts.

You and your great games. Look at the link of bbc I just provided. If India is involved in destabilizing Pakistan then is it a surprise for any sane person. Should I start mentioning Hafeez Saeed and Agent Kasab ? Didn't Pakistan try to destabilize India and again I don't have any problem with that as its expected.

As for the game, the game is also played by China when they make defense pacts with Bangladesh, Srilanka while having relations with you. What does it signifies ? Isn't it a great game played by China. I don't have problem with their foreign policies. Why wouldn't they try to contain India at the same time increase trade with us.

Even if you are right that Indian consulates are behind Uighar extremists, which you haven't provided any link to support, why China still becoming major trading partners with us unlike you who has just started to increase trade with India after so many years. Learn from China about keeping things separately to gain maximum and lose minimum with any country.

 

[Srinivas]

---

Indians are so concerned.

Sino-Pakistani relations are a bilateral matter between China and Pakistan, no one else.

Concentrate on the Olympics instead.

What is the use of winning medals if there is no freedom or human rights. Have you seen the 4 year olds crying because of pain.
Your Cheap products comes from camps inside jails who are wrong fully convicted and asked to work for 16 hours a day without giving proper conditions.

Your medals also comes from similar type of treatment to the Athelates. I haven't seen Chinese athelate so proud and celebrating as of an US athelate. For Chinese athelate winning a medal means they are getting to the target set by CCP nothing more.

We Indians believe in freedom if India has to win medals in future we have to imitate the American style not the Chinese one.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

---

What is the use of winning medals if there is no freedom or human rights. Have you seen the 4 year olds crying because of pain.
Your Cheap products comes from camps inside jails who are wrong fully convicted and asked to work for 16 hours a day without giving proper conditions.

Your medals also comes from similar type of treatment to the Athelates. I haven't seen Chinese athelate so proud and celebrating as of an US athelate. For Chinese athelate winning a medal means they are getting to the target set by CCP nothing more.

We Indians believe in freedom if India has to win medals in future we have to imitate the American style not the Chinese one.

KRAIT, take a good look at this off-topic obviously flaming post, mocking Chinese children who were in pain, and remember that I did not respond.

 

[Desert Fox]

China asked Pakistan to take against Islamic extremists on Pakistan' soil who are helping Uigher extremists. Read news mate. Read China's media. You seriously need to read a lot.

Exactly!! Once NATO withdraws from Afghanistan, all hells going to be let lose and these same Talibunnies will rejoice over the victory, civil war will erupt in Afghanistan, and then rogue groups will turn their attention else where.

This is just history repeating itself, if people don't believe me then all they have to do is look back at how after the Soviets were defeated in Afghanistan and completely withdrew, the same people who fought them in Afghanistan relocated to Chechnya and a whole new bloody war erupted there. And just like in Chechnya the Chechens despised the Russians, Xinjiang's locals despise the Hans whom they view as intruders forcing their way of life on the Turkic minority and turning the locals into minorities in their own land.

Pakistan has no control over these groups, one day Pakistan Army calls them the "good Taliban" or "Mujahideen" but the next day when they turn their guns on their owners they become "bad Taliban", "RAW agents", "CIA agents", "Mossad agents", and strange tales start forming out of thin air how the evil "indian agents" are uncircumcised and alcohol bottles were discovered in their hideouts, etc.

And i used to believe in that BS until recently i woke up and realized they are playing us all for fools, but for how long? You play with fire and it will eventually burn you, unfortunately ISI and co still haven't learned that lesson as we can see they have a love affair with Haqani and friends.

 

[KRAIT]

We will never be a superpower, at least I hope not.

But the sheer size of China by itself means that we are in desperate need of resources. It so happens that the most resource-rich regions in the world are primarily Islamic regions (Middle East and Central Asia)... which means we cannot afford to have bad relations with the Islamic world.

Pakistan is one of the foremost powers in the Muslim world, and they are also the only Muslim nation to have nuclear weapons. If they are on our side, everything will be much easier. And this is not even taking into account their strategic location.

Again lets imagine a situation where Pakistan is not in this region but lets say in Africa, and at its place is non-Islamic state. You need KSA, Iran and other countries for your energy requirement. You need access to Afghanistan too. Wouldn't the situation be same and you will support that non-Islamic state.

Gulf countries, Iran etc are Islamic states while they provide India's requirement of oil and other resources, the same India where Muslims are killed in thousands in riots, faces discrimination and torture by Army in Kashmir, according to other sources. Why haven't they stopped providing us their resources as India is a Hindu majority state. Its all business mate....Even we know KSA financially funded terrorist organizations against India, still we are increasing our trade so are they. You are at major better place than us with no issues like religion based disputes.

Nuclear Pakistan mean nothing to China as we all know they are never be going to be used and if they did, it would be MAD, and even China don't want nuclear war. Do you really think Pakistan has major say in Islamic nations? The nation that has strong grip on world issues are those with oil like KSA and Iran. They are the major forces of Islam along with Pakistan.