Sikh families leave Orakzai after Taliban demand jizia

[shravan]

Lol. You Indians are seriously brainwashed. I'm surprised the Indian government isn't sanctioned for the amount of anti Muslim bias they put in their textbooks. I've seen more level headed analysis regarding Islam from American books and commentary.

Tell me if Sikh families can't afford to pay jizia what would be the punishment.

 

[paritosh]

@Paritosh: Sorry but I'll disagree on this one. One should not think about rehabilitating the Sikhs outside. That's not the solution to this problem. A country needs diversity to promote tolerance, religious and otherwise. Shifting minorities out is an easy option but not the smartest. The Taliban need to be rooted out. The journey to the Stone Ages began when they were allowed by the US to proliferate in Afghanistan. I hope you haven't forgotten the Buddha statues in Bamiyan and the Sikhs of Afghanistan

i agree....whatever you wrote is very true indeed....but as far as the ground reality is concerned...things are harsh for being a non-muslim in pakistan's taliban controlled areas...and as far as religious intolerance is concerned....i believe that comes from education and free mixing of people.

 

[afriend]

In the modern world uniform taxes, which belong to the Government of Pakistan, make both nullified.

This is shameful... We are effectively abusing, mistreating millions of Pakistanis who would otherwise be Patriots of the nation!

The sad part is pakistan is doing nothing about it.. and your fears are real asim.. this would lead to divisions among the various sectors. We have lot pakistani hindus who had come from swat, in india, they are given residence permit here.. Well patriotism is what they lack asim, why, ?the government, the system they believed in when they decieded to stay on in 1947 just turned their backside to them.,.. they are left to suffer from the exploitation of some illeterate/extrimst mullahs..!!!!!

 

[shravan]

Roadrunner,

This is why i said that they have to convert. If i am wrong please tell me. I am here to learn.
---------
Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold forbidden that which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.
Qur'an 9:29

"I call you to God and to Islam. If you respond to the call, then you are Muslims: You obtain the benefits they enjoy and take up the responsibilities they bear. If you refuse, then you must pay the jizyah. If you refuse the jizyah, I will bring against you tribes of people who are more eager for death than you are for life. We will then fight you until God decides between us and you." (Al Tabari, Volume XI)
Khalid bin Al-Waheed (Muslim General, 632AD)

---

 

[paritosh]

The Qur'an:

Sura (9:29) - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."


From the Hadith:



Muslim (19:4294) - There are many places in the hadith where Muhammad tells his followers to demand the jizya of non-believers. Here he lays down the rule that it is to be extorted by force: "If they refuse to accept Islam, demand from them the Jizya. If they agree to pay, accept it from them and hold off your hands. If they refuse to pay the tax, seek Allah's help and fight them"



Ishaq 956 & 962 - "He who withholds the Jizya is an enemy of Allah and His apostle."

 

[Elmo]

This is pure Hindutva propaganda and off topic.

But Pakistan (west) always had 97% Muslim population even before partition.

The 80% included the East Pakistani Hindus who migrated out of Bangladesh at partition.

You Indians keep using this blatant bit of Hindu propaganda, and I keep disproving it.

Cool down Roadrunner, hope you don't have a showdown. I am new to this forum but wondering if this tone is the norm here?

 

[shravan]

But Pakistan (west) always had 97% Muslim population even before partition.

Somewhere read Pakistan is 95% Muslim & Others 5% in 2001.
What are you upto ?

 

[roadrunner]

Somewhere read Pakistan is 95% Muslim & Others 5% in 2001.
What are you upto ?

lol, what?

 

[Elmo]

lol, what?

Yeah, what was that. Lol

 

[shravan]

lol, what?

Nothing. Don't want to derail the thread.

People like you are good for us. LOL...

 

[Moscow]

i have some honest qestions on the whole issue.

1. what happens to those families who are unable to pay this taxes including both muslims and non muslims here?
2. is the tax uniform for all means people from different workgroups do all of them have to pay the same amount of it depends on the income group?
3.where exactly does this money go is there any documentation made available to the taxpaying public for review?
4. can the taxpayers have the right to appeal in a court of justice against any action takers
5. how will the state of pakistan benifit from this taxes?


i ask for an honest answer without the sarcasm because i am not very familiar to this whole system and i want to know the real facts. anyone?

 

[roadrunner]

The Qur'an:

Sura (9:29) - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."

Well let's think about it. I don't think it's as bad as you're making out at all. It's very logical actually.

You pay taxes, or I hope you do.

If you do not, you are punished and sent to jail?

So if a non Muslim doesn't pay his tax, he is punished.

If a Muslim doesn't pay Zakat, isn't he punished also?

From the Hadith:



Muslim (19:4294) - There are many places in the hadith where Muhammad tells his followers to demand the jizya of non-believers. Here he lays down the rule that it is to be extorted by force: "If they refuse to accept Islam, demand from them the Jizya. If they agree to pay, accept it from them and hold off your hands. If they refuse to pay the tax, seek Allah's help and fight them"

Taking this from such sites as "http://www.lunaticsunitedagainstIslam.org", just demonstrates the gaps in your knowledge and argument.

If I may quote the whole verse to that Hadith. It's a little long, but you'll get the idea of what it says.

"It has been reported from Sulaiman b. Buraid through his father that when the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) appointed anyone as leader of an army or detachment he would especially exhort him to fear Allah and to be good to the Muslims who were with him. He would say: Fight in the name of Allah and in the way of Allah. Fight against those who disbelieve in Allah. Make a holy war, do not embezzle the spoils; do not break your pledge; and do not mutilate (the dead) bodies; do not kill the children. When you meet your enemies who are polytheists, invite them to three courses of action. If they respond to any one of these, you also accept it and withold yourself from doing them any harm. Invite them to (accept) Islam; if they respond to you, accept it from them and desist from fighting against them. Then invite them to migrate from their lands to the land of Muhairs and inform them that, if they do so, they shall have all the privileges and obligations of the Muhajirs. If they refuse to migrate, tell them that they will have the status of Bedouin Muilims and will be subjected to the Commands of Allah like other Muslims, but they will not get any share from the spoils of war or Fai' except when they actually fight with the Muslims (against the disbelievers). If they refuse to accept Islam, demand from them the Jizya. If they agree to pay, accept it from them and hold off your hands. If they refuse to pay the tax, seek Allah's help and fight them. When you lay siege to a fort and the besieged appeal to you for protection in the name of Allah and His Prophet, do not accord to them the guarantee of Allah and His Prophet, but accord to them your own guarantee and the guarantee of your companions for it is a lesser sin that the security given by you or your companions be disregarded than that the security granted in the name of Allah and His Prophet be violated When you besiege a fort and the besieged want you to let them out in accordance with Allah's Command, do not let them come out in accordance with His Command, but do so at your (own) command, for you do not know whether or not you will be able to carry out Allah's behest with regard to them."

If you've read it, you will see that applies to the non Muslim armies who they were fighting with. The are offered a choice between Islam or not. Should they refuse Islam, that was fine, but they need to pay the Jizya. Should they choose Islam, they'll need to pay the Zakat. Either way they have to pay their tax, whether they agree to convert or not. Does it sound reasonable?

 

[shravan]

Well let's think about it. I don't think it's as bad as you're making out at all. It's very logical actually.

You pay taxes, or I hope you do.

If you do not, you are punished and sent to jail?

So if a non Muslim doesn't pay his tax, he is punished.

If a Muslim doesn't pay Zakat, isn't he punished also?

What is the punishment ? Asking you for the second time.

what if i don't have the money ?

 

[Elmo]

I guess one gets jailed — seems logical.

 

[theonlyone]

If it is just a tax why is it different for muslims and non-muslims?
Different not as in names but in amount

P.S I read this piont in this thread itself.