Siachen Glacier, Fighting On The Roof Of The World

[Zob]

You are essentially echoing what Mr Xeric has done before, to which I had responded earlier and then deleted. The fact that, GoP has on several occasions tried to dislodge the Indian troops from the Siachen glacier and has even gone into a mini war (a.k.a Kargil) with Siachen as one of the factors, means GoP attaches more value to Siachen than you are willing to admit.

You can downplay Siachen’s importance, and I personally feel that you are not entirely wrong in that, but it is apparent, that GoP is more than willing to risk the expenditure and lives of her sons, just to be where Indian troops are today.

The argument that it is bleeding India more and therefore, Pakistan is better off, as far as Siachen is concerned, is inherently a false argument. Given the first opportunity, Pakistan would like to bleed a just as much, and this, Pakistan has proved through her actions.

well see that is why status quo is not the solution complete demilitarization of the zone is!!!

both sides should withdraw to there pre 1984 positions!!

 

[third eye]

well see that is why status quo is not the solution complete demilitarization of the zone is!!!

both sides should withdraw to there pre 1984 positions!!

Not unless the existing Ground positions are documented & accepted by both sides.

This is something Pk is not inclined to hence the impasse.

 

[Zob]

Not unless the existing Ground positions are documented & accepted by both sides.

This is something Pk is not inclined to hence the impasse.

ok well i think if you withdraw then there is no issue of ground positions being documented....withdraw to 1984 position and maintain a status quo like it existed back then!! and declare Siachen a complete demilitarize zone on both sides...and make it a no man's land....!!!

however, if you want to document things let's hear what positions would be documented....

 

[third eye]

ok well i think if you withdraw then there is no issue of ground positions being documented....withdraw to 1984 position and maintain a status quo like it existed back then!! and declare Siachen a complete demilitarize zone on both sides...and make it a no man's land....!!!

however, if you want to document things let's hear what positions would be documented....

Status quo of '84 is in Pk's interest no that of IA. Having lost somany men & done so much there is no way the IA will withdraw unless its position is accepted.

To withdraw the stated party line is that both armies have to accept who stands where now & agree to maintain the sanctity of these lines.

Since this is unlikely to be accepted by PA - the current status quo will remain. If GOI has to spend more than GOP to keep the troops up there - well its has the resources to do that.

This argument has gone on for ages & will get nowhere.

 

[Zob]

@third-eye

this is the problem that we are ok with recognizing 1984 boundaries because we never did any agression we didn't have troops up there Siachen was baron land and no one was there until the indians walked up the mountain and occupied it for unknown reasons!!

so yes i guess as long as India is not willing to withdraw the problem will exist. what pak must do is increase foreign pressure on india just like it did during Kargil and succeed in getting a withdrawal due to international pressure!!

 

[third eye]

@third-eye

this is the problem that we are ok with recognizing 1984 boundaries because we never did any agression we didn't have troops up there Siachen was baron land and no one was there until the indians walked up the mountain and occupied it for unknown reasons!!

so yes i guess as long as India is not willing to withdraw the problem will exist. what pak must do is increase foreign pressure on india just like it did during Kargil and succeed in getting a withdrawal due to international pressure!!

Going back to ' 84 is not an option at all.

The reasons for occupying are not ' unknown' either. Those who should know - do know thats why one side is holding on & the other is trying to oust them.

As rgds intl pressure, how much has changed & where is the pressure ?

 

[arihant]

@third-eye

this is the problem that we are ok with recognizing 1984 boundaries because we never did any agression we didn't have troops up there Siachen was baron land and no one was there until the indians walked up the mountain and occupied it for unknown reasons!!

so yes i guess as long as India is not willing to withdraw the problem will exist. what pak must do is increase foreign pressure on india just like it did during Kargil and succeed in getting a withdrawal due to international pressure!!

Going back 1984 is no more solution. It is like going back to 1947 stage. Probably now India and Pakistan should have a dialogue to internationalized the boundary with mutual agreement. Border dispute with china, Bangladesh should also be solved in this way.

 

[arihant]

@third-eye

so yes i guess as long as India is not willing to withdraw the problem will exist. what pak must do is increase foreign pressure on india just like it did during Kargil and succeed in getting a withdrawal due to international pressure!!

What pakistan did in Kargil ? I mean what pressure it made on India with international pressure. Please elaborate in detail.

 

[HadaHada]

i have a question...is the airforce used to bomb the other sides positions or is siachen too high for airplanes?

 

[Joodi]

i have a question...is the airforce used to bomb the other sides positions or is siachen too high for airplanes?

Yes airforce can be used. but its useless. if one side uses air power then so does the other side. either side can use airpower to destroy each other post on high altitudes.

 

[Windjammer]

i want to How many time india cross border to pakistan after 1947.

It's not a question of merely crossing the border, India has been the habitual aggressor in the conflict, the late indian PM Mrs. Gandhi is on record for commenting, "Indian forces have entered East Pakistan in
SELF DEFENCE. ?????? !!!!!!!!!

 

[Vassnti]

Just how long will there be a Siachen glacier to fight over?

The studies reportedly pointed out that during the last two decades, the melting of Siachen glacier has now been bracketed amongst the fastest in the world. Its retreat is evident from the snout (base of the glacier) and through the continuous thinning of ice along its entire length. Siachen, along with several other major tributary glaciers, reduced their volume by 35 per cent during the last twenty years and retreating at the rate of 110 metres per year.

'Siachen glacier melting due to military activity'

 

[vnomad]

The Indian army's senior leadership has publicly and vociferously decried any movement by the Indian political leadership to settle Siachen by diluting India's stand.

The reasons especially of late aren't hard to assess.

What the brass has been emphasizing over and over again is that India is no longer bleeding in Siachen. There was a time during the eighties and nineties when India was losing dozens of men annually to the harsh conditions on the glacier. That's mostly in the past now.

Siachen no longer hurts us: Army

2005:

Siachen Glacier: Siachen no longer hurts. That's the message from the Indian Army, which has now ensured that none of its troops perishes on the treacherous battlefield.

For the first time since it paratrooped to the Sia La heights in 1984 to pre-empt a Pakistani march into Siachen, the Army finally seems to have the measure of the Glacier.

"There has been no death in the last one year," Dr Latika, a doctor at the High-Altitude Medical Research Centre, said. The ceasefire since 2003 has helped arrive at zero fatality.

It was not Pakistani firing but the Glacier itself, which was the biggest killer of Indian Army men on the world's highest battlefield.

Of the 720 deaths suffered by the Indian Army so far, 60 per cent perished due to the frigid elements at heights up to 22,000 feet. The Army confers on Siachen the respect it would give to a worthy enemy by calling it 'General Glacier'.

Although survival continues to be a challenge, some astute medical management has enabled the Army to defy 'General Glacier'.

The provision of mobile hyperbaric chambers at all posts, which enable sick soldiers to be subjected to a sea-level atmospheric pressure and quick evacuation, is the key to survival.

"Once an Armyman has developed hi-altitude pulmonary edema, if inclement weather conditions do not permit immediate evacuation, he can survive in this bag (mobile hyperbaric chambers). It is a life-saving thing," Dr Latika explains.

So, as India and Pakistan consider de-militarisation, the Army is conveying to New Delhi that it is under no mortal pressure to withdraw. The Army's ruggedness has kept India's options open on Siachen. And the Army's case for staying put is now backed up by a feat in casualty management.

There was an impression that prolonged deployment on this frozen frontier is hurting the Army. But by achieving a near-zero casualty rate, the Army has demonstrated that it can dig in for as long as it takes.

Siachen no longer hurts us: Army

At Siachen, casualties come to all time low

Oct 11, 2008

It is a sad day at the Siachen base camp. A soldier died at the Kaziranga post on the glacier two days ago and his body has still not been brought down due to bad weather and heavy snowfall. A Cheetah helicopter has been flying daily from base camp to the post, but has not been able to land and pick up the body.
Despite a rigorous selection procedure and extensive medical examinations before the posting, the soldier suffered a heart attack. Another one, doctors say, of the unpredictables while serving at extreme altitudes.

While days like these bring out the cost India is paying for maintaining troops at the highest battlefield in the world, casualty rates at the Siachen glacier have come down to an all time low.

Casualties peaked to almost 70 per year during the 1999 Kargil war, but the rate has come down to single digit in the past two years. New equipment, better medical facilities, faster evacuations and the ceasefire agreement has brought down fatality rates in the glacier to about four a year.

Till 2003, before the ceasefire agreement came into place, the Army was losing close to 30 soldiers on the glacier every year. The figure went down to 10 a year after the agreement. However, heavy snowfall and the 2006 earthquake raised the casualties to 26 that year.

The past two years have, however, been stable. The Army lost four men on the glacier in 2007 — two cases of medical complications and two pilots who died in a helicopter crash on the LoC. This year, four soldiers have died on the glacier, again mainly due to medical complications.

The main reason, officers say, is the good quality of clothing and special equipment procured in recent years to equip men on the glacier. Most of the clothing — jackets, gloves, sleeping bags — has improved over the past two years and is being imported from Italy, France and Austria.

“We now have better medical facilities and equipment. Any case that looks bad is evacuated immediately. We don’t need to take any chances on the glacier anymore,” a medical officer says.

At Siachen, casualties come to all time low

With regard to expenditure, Siachen used to be a major expenditure when India's defence budget was $10 billion back in 1999. Today, its a substantially smaller fraction of the $33 billion budget. And as the national budget grows one can expect it to further decrease in the future.

 

[wild peace]

What pakistan did in Kargil ? I mean what pressure it made on India with international pressure. Please elaborate in detail.

Is kargil present at an international border , Kargil is at LOC(line of controll)It is not an international border , these hights are in pakistan coustody in 71 when india stenched them. Secondly yes there is reason for this adventureism ..to satisfy its friend USSR now russia who was fighting in afganistan.

 

[arihant]

Is kargil present at an international border , Kargil is at LOC(line of controll)It is not an international border , these hights are in pakistan coustody in 71 when india stenched them. Secondly yes there is reason for this adventureism ..to satisfy its friend USSR now russia who was fighting in afganistan.

You need to check what I quoted. Did I said it is International Border. You want to again start fighting na...