Should Pakistan recognize Israel?

[alirulesall123]

what have you done to help the Muslims around the world?

He has done nothing, besides dining and siding with Arabs( even though not all arabs are like this) that think nothing of our kind, and talk about how Palestine should be freed at all costs even though Pakistan itself is in a mess.

" Peace at Home, Peace in the World"

- Mustafa Kemal Ataturk

 

[A1Kaid]

Don't show us your double sided face, if your going to take a leap in helping all who can within your power than do so in a right manner without discriminating against other Muslims around the world who happen to be in trouble, starting with China, Somalia, Sudan, Morocco, Lebanon etc. We are not misguided or a damn disgrace as you so put it we merely look at whats best for Pakistan and whether we have the ways and means to support others when we can barely sustain and help ourselves. There are millions of Muslims living IN Pakistan who need homes, shelters, aid, medicine, ration etc. We have our own problems with religous and ethnic discrimination of women in rural parts of the country and honor killings that we need to first take care of before we jump the bandwagon of helping people living a couple of thousand miles away from us.

How much have you contributed to the cause of upholding Islamic principles my friend, I with a bunch of volunteers at least raised closed to 7400 dollars for the Muslims and people in Darfur and donated all of it to UNICEF, what have you done to help the Muslims around the world?

what have you done to help the Muslims around the world?

Don't worry I will InshAllah do something for the Muslim cause, something far greater...InshAllah. I am currently working towards my goal not just mine but something greater than I though it takes great time and struggle. These are personal matters for now which I will not discuss further.

Don't show us your double sided face, if your going to take a leap in helping all who can within your power than do so in a right manner without discriminating against other Muslims around the world who happen to be in trouble, starting with China, Somalia, Sudan, Morocco, Lebanon etc.

What is this utter BS, "double-sided face", have you even read my ideas and plans and what I support I have always consistently supported the Muslim causes and interest in every single affair.

We are not misguided or a damn disgrace as you so put it we merely look at whats best for Pakistan and whether we have the ways and means to support others when we can barely sustain and help ourselves.

Why do you think I was talking specifically about you? Besides yes many of you (generally speaking) are misguided, don't deny this, many Muslims are misguided because you choose to believe in the supremacy of man's laws and not Allah's law or Allah's plan or you will seek an interest that has been condemned. You will follow "ism's" and ideologies foreign to Islam, you will mix and match ideas and opinions unrelated and contradictory to the Quran and Islam within your own beliefs and you seek to bring this upon the entire system by enforcing laws not even remotely close to the nature of Islam.

There are millions of Muslims living IN Pakistan who need homes, shelters, aid, medicine, ration etc. We have our own problems with religous and ethnic discrimination of women in rural parts of the country and honor killings that we need to first take care of before we jump the bandwagon of helping people living a couple of thousand miles away from us.

Yes we know there are problems at home tremendous problems at home, this does not mean we cannot support the Palestinian cause, surely we can send arms, political support, and join other prominent Muslim countries in helping Palestine like Turkey and Iran.

No body is saying don't help Pakistani people, nobody is saying let's neglect our own problems, we must manage them as well of course. But this does not mean we become apathetic or disconnected ourselves with the Muslim causes beyond our borders, this does not mean we split the Muslim lines, what this means we have to step up and rise to the challenge.

"than do so in a right manner without discriminating against other Muslims around the world who happen to be in trouble, starting with China, Somalia, Sudan, Morocco, Lebanon etc."

I have never discriminated against "other Muslims around the world" the topic is Israel and Palestine, and that is why I was specifically discussing and supporting Palestine.

During the Xinjiang/East Turkistan riots, I was perhaps the only Pakistani to voice my opinions on behalf of Uyghurs and was critical of China, Pakistan's greatest ally.

before we jump the bandwagon of helping people living a couple of thousand miles away from us

You call this a "bandwagon"? Are you serious? This noble humanitarian and Muslim cause is being reduced to a "bandwagon"?

How nice and just a moment ago you were saying

We are not misguided or a damn disgrace-Durran3

Anyways, you want to talk about helping Muslims around the world, when the Palestinian people would not need immense help if it weren't for Zionism and Israel the same regime you advise us to recognize and establish better ties with.

In fact this is not simply a helping task but more like a rescue mission saving them from this barbaric regime and "state" but we obviously can't do it alone and this is one reason why Muslim unity is so important.

 

[A1Kaid]

You know the truth is clear...

I am not forcing any of you to support the Palestinians, you are all free people I suppose and as free people you will naturally act on your own free conscience and own free will.

Go ahead and become the friends of Israel as you heart's desire.

Though I do condemn when others, who happen to be from the Muslim nation endeavor and espouse breaking and splitting the Muslim unity instead of encouraging it. This I see as wrongful and harmful. Yes there is a lot of bad history, but work for progress.

Don't one of you (generally speaking) think you can make me back down or retract from my position, my position is strong and it's is clear.

 

[Righteous_Fire]

I haven't contributed yet and so..........

1) As a Human Being: No - That will legitimize illegal land grabbing in the name of God and the massacre of hundreds of thousands of innocent people

2) As a Muslim: No - From the Ahadith of the Holy Prophet, he tells us of Israel, its creation and evil mischief, The Prophet PBUH says in a Hadith from Sunan Abi Daud:

"The prosperity of Jerusalem (means the Jewish state) is the destruction of Medinah

As some would like to translate it as: The Jews have no right to live!
The reality is, they not only have that right, but Islam gives them much respect, but not at the cost of our Palestinian brothers or any other human beings. It is interesting to know that, the dominant majority of the people of Israel consider all other human beings as sub-human gentiles, Jesus Christ PBUH as a Bastard (Nauzobillah) and Holy Mary PBUH as a dirty woman (Nauzobillah). The Hadith means, since it will be Jews with this type of philosophy controlling everything in Israel (Jerusalem) so the end result will be the destruction of Medinah. It is even more interesting to know that, this is a future that will be. . However, for argument's sake, if the dominant majority of the Jews controlling Israel were to be the kind hearted people (who exist as a silented and neglected minority) then there is nothing wrong with leaving them in peace.

3) As a Pakistani: No - Both Pakistan and Israel are Ideological states, and as much as we would like to bury our heads in sand and reject that Israel isnt doing anything anti-Pakistan, the reverse is factually true. Their latest gift of love for us are the animal barbarians, "the so called Taliban" of Swat in the Indo-Israeli-US joint planned "Operation Blue Tulsi". So, we dont plan anything against them but they will never stop pursuing us. If they can guarantee that with something that is written in hard stone and liable for recompense then, maybe, BUT logic and history deifies that.

4) As an Afghan(Pushtun): No - What I have to say here is pretty interesting but I wont, only those who know, know !!

 

[Durran3]

Why do you think I was talking specifically about you?Besides yes many of you (generally speaking) are misguided, don't deny this, many Muslims are misguided

Ah alright, from today onwards i won't deny that i am misguided ladies and gentlemen because Mr A1Kaid upholder of the law of the Holy book of the Intrawebz says so. Go preach your nonsense somewhere else and come out with practical solutions and maybe than I'll take you seriously

because you choose to believe in the supremacy of man's laws and not Allah's law or Allah's plan or you will seek an interest that has been condemned. You will follow "ism's" and ideologies foreign to Islam, you will mix and match ideas and opinions unrelated and contradictory to the Quran and Islam within your own beliefs and you seek to bring this upon the entire system by enforcing laws not even remotely close to the nature of Islam.

[/QUOTE]

Are you to weak minded or are intellectually disabled to make your own decisions? To stand up for yourself and to take responsibility for your actions? I will never support Religious clergy as its for weak minded people who need a reason to look up to authority for answers that they can not find or think for themselves thus evidenced by the dictators ruling Muslim countries. My personal beliefs and upbringing by my Parents have given me enough light to do whats good and whats morally acceptable in society. I don't need a verse like 'thou shall not kill' to tell me that killing is bad, it comes from common sense. I'd rather choose to live under a countries constitutional law. Laws which have been made by the people for the people and laws that have been made through the mistakes we as humans have learned from our past mistakes than an archaic religious scripture that has solely been responsible thousands of deaths.

Yes we know there are problems at home tremendous problems at home, this does not mean we cannot support the Palestinian cause, surely we can send arms, political support, and join other prominent Muslim countries in helping Palestine like Turkey and Iran.

Send Arms and start confronting Israel when it poses us no threat what so ever and start making enemies around the world just because a group of people who happen to be Muslims are being oppressed? Your logic is quiet childish every step of the way. Why should we politically get involved, we have no reason to ally our selves with the likes of Hamas. I am all for humanitarian assistance but thats it, Pakistan has NO reason what so ever to support the Palestinians militarily or politically and drag itself self into another mess that has nothing to do with us.

No body is saying don't help Pakistani people, nobody is saying let's neglect our own problems, we must manage them as well of course. But this does not mean we become apathetic or disconnected ourselves with the Muslim causes beyond our borders, this does not mean we split the Muslim lines, what his means we have to step up and rise to the challenge.

We can barely rise to a challenge to help those living at home let alone stand up and support people living a thousand miles away eh? Why don't we send all our troops to Chechnya while we're at it as well

I have never discriminated against "other Muslims around the world" the topic is Israel and Palestine, and that is why I was specifically discussing and supporting Palestine.

Sure Support them.. Your a young energetic guy it seems.. Start an organization to send aid, medicine, ration to Palestine. I am sure you will find ample of support both in the United States and Pakistan. Start an NGO or go to Palestine, become a journalist and report about the atrocities. Go to universities, raise funds, hold concerts and raise funds, get involved in marathon runs for the children of Gaza like they are doing in Britian.

There are ample ways and means for you to do your part

During the Xinjiang/East Turkistan riots, I was perhaps the only Pakistani to voice my opinions on behalf of Uyghurs and was critical of China, Pakistan's greatest ally.

Good for you

In fact this is not simply a helping task but more like a rescue mission saving them from this barbaric regime and "state" but we obviously can't do it alone and this is one reason why Muslim unity is so important

Did you unite the Iraqi's when Saddam was using Chemical and Biological weapons against his own people? Did you fight for the people of Chechnya when there being oppressed by the Soviets? IF your so concerned about the Barbaric Regiems why don't you go and help the North Koreans free itself from Kim Jong il?

 

[A1Kaid]

Another aspect is why should we befriend Israel or accept this illegitimate state which was born out of the illegal British Balfour Declaration of 1917,before the Holocaust or WWII even happened. What right do the British have to give the Zionist and Jews someone's land, they have no right, this is stealing it is illegal, it is occupation.

Why should we befriend Israel when it actively seeks Anti-Pakistani interest, like support for India in Kashmir, or as it sought to destroy or ruin our Nuclear assets in the past. Using espionage to compromise our national security...

This is not something you befriend it is something you oppose! Yet some argue by befriending Israel they are furthering Pakistan's interest, very misguided and and it's an oxymoron really, false hope...

 

[Durran3]

Another aspect is why should we befriend Israel or accept this illegitimate state which was born out of the illegal British Balfour Declaration of 1917,before the Holocaust or WWII even happened. What right do the British have to give the Zionist and Jews someone's land, they have no right, this is stealing it is illegal, it is occupation.

Your living in United States land that was stolen, it belonged to the First Nations people. Can i say shame on you for supporting and living on a land that is technically illegal? The world runs by one law, Survival of the Fittest and if you haven't figured that out by now you need to go back to high school.

Why should we befriend Israel when it actively seeks Anti-Pakistani interest, like support for India in Kashmir, or as it sought to destroy or ruin our Nuclear assets in the past. Using espionage to compromise our national security..

.
Why does Pakistan recognize India its number one enemy or United States who have been involved in covert ops in Pakistan historically speaking. Why do we recognize Afghanistan where terrorism gets imported from and has been responsible for not only drug trafficking but smuggling and terrorism etc? Both Israel and Pakistan were involved in Operation Cyclone, Both Israel and Pakistan were involved in defeating the LTTE as well

This is not something you befriend it is something you oppose! Yet some argue by befriending Israel they are furthering Pakistan's interest, very misguided and and it's an oxymoron really, false hope...

Don't confuse Recognition with befriending. Getting benefit from other countries is NOT the reason you recognize them. I can name 50 countries here that Pakistan receives NO benefit from what so ever militarily, politically or any yet we recognize them. Again If your Recognizing India who have a much bigger stake in the region from a geopolitical perspective and not Israel, it just shows how weak your argument really is

 

[A1Kaid]

Ah alright, from today onwards i won't deny that i am misguided ladies and gentlemen because Mr A1Kaid upholder of the law of the Holy book of the Intrawebz says so. Go preach your nonsense somewhere else and come out with practical solutions and maybe than I'll take you seriously

Are you to weak minded or are intellectually disabled to make your own decisions? To stand up for yourself and to take responsibility for your actions? I will never support Religious clergy as its for weak minded people who need a reason to look up to authority for answers that they can not find or think for themselves thus evidenced by the dictators ruling Muslim countries. My personal beliefs and upbringing by my Parents have given me enough light to do whats good and whats morally acceptable in society. I don't need a verse like 'thou shall not kill' to tell me that killing is bad, it comes from common sense. I'd rather choose to live under a countries constitutional law. Laws which have been made by the people for the people and laws that have been made through the mistakes we as humans have learned from our past mistakes than an archaic religious scripture that has solely been responsible thousands of deaths.



Send Arms and start confronting Israel when it poses us no threat what so ever and start making enemies around the world just because a group of people who happen to be Muslims are being oppressed? Your logic is quiet childish every step of the way. Why should we politically get involved, we have no reason to ally our selves with the likes of Hamas. I am all for humanitarian assistance but thats it, Pakistan has NO reason what so ever to support the Palestinians militarily or politically and drag itself self into another mess that has nothing to do with us.



We can barely rise to a challenge to help those living at home let alone stand up and support people living a thousand miles away eh? Why don't we send all our troops to Chechnya while we're at it as well



Sure Support them.. Your a young energetic guy it seems.. Start an organization to send aid, medicine, ration to Palestine. I am sure you will find ample of support both in the United States and Pakistan. Start an NGO or go to Palestine, become a journalist and report about the atrocities. Go to universities, raise funds, hold concerts and raise funds, get involved in marathon runs for the children of Gaza like they are doing in Britian.

There are ample ways and means for you to do your part



Good for you



Did you unite the Iraqi's when Saddam was using Chemical and Biological weapons against his own people? Did you fight for the people of Chechnya when there being oppressed by the Soviets? IF your so concerned about the Barbaric Regiems why don't you go and help the North Koreans free itself from Kim Jong il?

Are you to weak minded or are intellectually disabled to make your own decisions? To stand up for yourself and to take responsibility for your actions? I will never support Religious clergy as its for weak minded people who need a reason to look up to authority for answers that they can not find or think for themselves thus evidenced by the dictators ruling Muslim countries. My personal beliefs and upbringing by my Parents have given me enough light to do whats good and whats morally acceptable in society. I don't need a verse like 'thou shall not kill' to tell me that killing is bad, it comes from common sense. I'd rather choose to live under a countries constitutional law. Laws which have been made by the people for the people and laws that have been made through the mistakes we as humans have learned from our past mistakes than an archaic religious scripture that has solely been responsible thousands of deaths.

Typical secular, liberal, westernized rhetoric and interpretation and argument used against religious thought and ideas. It won't work on me. Being religious or Islamic minded in fact strengthens you, it allows you to explore and see the world without false perceptions without misguided perceptions.

You claim to think for yourself yet you are repeating and parroting the same arguments used over and over and over again by Western secularist, atheist, and kaffir scholars. Ironic indeed.


Truthfully, these will not be the people who will judge you in the final hour, nor are they your true Lord, so following the love and Quran of Allah is wise.

I will never support Religious clergy as its for weak minded people who need a reason to look up to authority for answers that they can not find or think for themselves thus evidenced by the dictators ruling Muslim countries.

What are you arguing against? Stay on point your getting sloppy...Nobody ever said anything about "religious clergy" dictating to people what they must belief, in fact this is what the Prophet rejected and condemned the Christians and Jews for...Prophet SAW also mentioned "there is no compulsion in religion"...So your argument and ranting is out of line and sense.

Though, do as you wish Allah has given you free choice, exercise it, develop it, nourish it, use it for good or bad, you may even use it to reject Allah's supremacy. As Allah is not a tyrant but is the Most Merciful, you have free choice this is why humans were not born or forced into worshiping Allah.

I don't need a verse like 'thou shall not kill' to tell me that killing is bad, it comes from common sense.

That is a simplistic phrase, besides are you aware at the time that was revealed killing was not always condemned, besides killing is a complex issue as there can be justice and haram in it. But if you think religion is something that restricts you or just gives you a list of things not to do, that in deed you are misguided.

It was the Islamic religion and Civilization for nearly a millennium shined upon this Earth and led mankind in all noble human endeavors.

Did you unite the Iraqi's when Saddam was using Chemical and Biological weapons against his own people? Did you fight for the people of Chechnya when there being oppressed by the Soviets? IF your so concerned about the Barbaric Regiems why don't you go and help the North Koreans free itself from Kim Jong il?

I was in no position to, nor possessed the means to play savior.Besides, posing foolish and invalid and unfair questions does not make you look smart in fact ridiculous...So please wise up.

Sure Support them.. Your a young energetic guy it seems.. Start an organization to send aid, medicine, ration to Palestine. I am sure you will find ample of support both in the United States and Pakistan. Start an NGO or go to Palestine, become a journalist and report about the atrocities. Go to universities, raise funds, hold concerts and raise funds, get involved in marathon runs for the children of Gaza like they are doing in Britian.

There are goals that are so difficult to pursue that they require great patience, time, and effort, and at this young age and at this time in the World they cannot all be realized so soon.

By the way raising funds provides limited help, as you know not everything can be fixed with money, there is a greater goal InshAllah.

I hope you will remember those words. Though trust me on this, I am active...

 

[Durran3]

Typical secular, liberal, westernized rhetoric and interpretation and argument used against religious thought and ideas. It won't work on me. Being religious or Islamic minded in fact strengthens you, it allows you to explore and see the world without false perceptions without misguided perceptions.

You claim to think for yourself yet you are repeating and parroting the same arguments used over and over and over again by Western secularist, atheist, and kaffir scholars. Ironic indeed.


Truthfully, these will not be the people who will judge you in the final hour, nor are they your true Lord, so following the love and Quran of Allah is wise.

Just as i thought.. a guy who can't counter my arguments retreats behind the typical 'Western thinking' rhetoric. I am not going to waste my time with someone who can't post a single logical constructive post without him calling people who speak a little sense as Liberal, western nonsense..

Its funny because i never called you an Orthodox dumb conservative religious Wahhabi nut job yet you resort to the same old same old. How about you stay on topic and counter my arguments without running behind the veil and getting away with calling people 'Oh this guy is a secular Western puppet' in a rather derogatory way. I am trying to stay on topic with regards to Palestine and Israel trying my best to stay away from bringing Relgion into the equation yet you keep going to back to read the Quran and become a slave nonsense

And since you aren't going to post anything constructive i might as well stop responding to your rather childish posts. Come back to me when you grow up

Peace and as Spock would say
Live Long and Prosper

 

[A1Kaid]

Your living in United States land that was stolen, it belonged to the First Nations people. Can i say shame on you for supporting and living on a land that is technically illegal? The world runs by one law, Survival of the Fittest and if you haven't figured that out by now you need to go back to high school.

.
Why does Pakistan recognize India its number one enemy or United States who have been involved in covert ops in Pakistan historically speaking. Why do we recognize Afghanistan where terrorism gets imported from and has been responsible for not only drug trafficking but smuggling and terrorism etc? Both Israel and Pakistan were involved in Operation Cyclone, Both Israel and Pakistan were involved in defeating the LTTE as well



Don't confuse Recognition with befriending. Getting benefit from other countries is NOT the reason you recognize them. I can name 50 countries here that Pakistan receives NO benefit from what so ever militarily, politically or any yet we recognize them. Again If your Recognizing India who have a much bigger stake in the region from a geopolitical perspective and not Israel, it just shows how weak your argument really is

Why does Pakistan recognize India its number one enemy or United States who have been involved in covert ops in Pakistan historically speaking. Why do we recognize Afghanistan where terrorism gets imported from and has been responsible for not only drug trafficking but smuggling and terrorism etc? Both Israel and Pakistan were involved in Operation Cyclone, Both Israel and Pakistan were involved in defeating the LTTE as well

I said "befriend" not "recognize". Just a moment ago you were saying to me

"if you haven't figured that out by now you need to go back to high school."-Durran3

Please focus on the reading a bit more, thanks.

"Don't confuse Recognition with befriending. Getting benefit from other countries is NOT the reason you recognize them. I can name 50 countries here that Pakistan receives NO benefit from what so ever militarily, politically or any yet we recognize them. Again If your Recognizing India who have a much bigger stake in the region from a geopolitical perspective and not Israel, it just shows how weak your argument really is"

Read page 7 post #103

"The question is not does Israel exist, yes we all know it is a physical reality, we all know it has a government, judicial system, a Knesset, a police force, military, civil society and more.


The issue is occupation, in where Israel has by all facts occupied Arab lands through military might. Even the UN has acknowledged this. Israel also continues to spread it's settlement therefore expanding it's territory.

If you suggest Pakistan should recognize Israel, do you also suggest the Israelis recognize an independent Filistine, if so, there open policy of settlement expansion is a big problem.


The concern is Israel, is consider by many to be an "illegitimate state", remember it was the Balfour Declaration of 1917 that the British imposed, that promised the land to Jewish refugees of WWII and World Wide. So people especially Palestinians who paid the expense for a new Jewish homeland oppose this apparent "injustice". Neither did the UN consult the Palestinians, understand it was the highly influential Zionist movement that gave birth to the Ideological state of Israel.

So no one is denying Israel is a reality, yes it is a physical reality is exist it breathes, it lives, it fights, and does many other things.

But the issue is not does Israel exist, but does one acknowledge and legitimize a state that many consider an illegitimate state, established on occupied land, and many consider an apartheid state.

These are the honest issues we are dealing with."-A1Kaid

It's not about benefiting from Israel, or benefiting be a pre-condition to recognition of Israel...Just read the quote above.

Both Israel and Pakistan were involved in Operation Cyclone, Both Israel and Pakistan were involved in defeating the LTTE as well

Who really cares?

 

[alirulesall123]

Typical secular, liberal, westernized rhetoric and interpretation and argument used against religious thought and ideas.

You do understand that you live in America, right? If you don't like this kind of thinking, than go live in Saudi Arabia with other "true Muslims". What is with us Pakistanis, always giving into our inferiority complexes

 

[Durran3]

You do understand that you live in America, right? If you don't like this kind of thinking, than go live in Saudi Arabia with other "true Muslims". What is with us Pakistanis, always giving into our inferiority complexes

He's still young.. Once he gets into University and studies Democracy 101, Philsophy 101, World politics and International relations, he will than be in a better position to understand what certain things represent or what they mean ideologically and how a countries Constitution works and why its so much better than sticking to religous scriptures and archaic ideas.

Also one last thing!! Your not to young. You are old enough to take actions needed to help the palestinians within your power. If a 13 year old girl from Canada can go shock the world with her speech in the United Nations you can probably raise a 1000 dollars for the children of Gaza and donate it.

 

[A1Kaid]

Just as i thought.. a guy who can't counter my arguments retreats behind the typical 'Western thinking' rhetoric. I am not going to waste my time with someone who can't post a single logical constructive post without him calling people who speak a little sense as Liberal, western nonsense..

Its funny because i never called you an Orthodox dumb conservative religious Wahhabi nut job yet you resort to the same old same old. How about you stay on topic and counter my arguments without running behind the veil and getting away with calling people 'Oh this guy is a secular Western puppet' in a rather derogatory way. I am trying to stay on topic with regards to Palestine and Israel trying my best to stay away from bringing Relgion into the equation yet you keep going to back to read the Quran and become a slave nonsense

And since you aren't going to post anything constructive i might as well stop responding to your rather childish posts. Come back to me when you grow up

Peace and as Spock would say
Live Long and Prosper

Its funny because i never called you an Orthodox dumb conservative religious Wahhabi nut job yet you resort to the same old same old. How about you stay on topic and counter my arguments without running behind the veil and getting away with calling people 'Oh this guy is a secular Western puppet' in a rather derogatory way. I am trying to stay on topic with regards to Palestine and Israel trying my best to stay away from bringing Relgion into the equation yet you keep going to back to read the Quran and become a slave nonsense

How can one be a slave if he has free will to do as he chooses? Besides your interpretation is inaccurate, I think for myself, I develop my reasoning, but there is no harm in not being influenced by the Quran.

Its funny because i never called you an Orthodox dumb conservative religious Wahhabi nut job yet you resort to the same old same old.

Well I assure you that description would be very inaccurate...Just because I am in strong disagreement with your extremist views of accepting Israeli occupied lands as a "state" would not even nominate me for such a description. In fact, the mainstream Muslims are against accepting Israeli occupied lands as a "state". The problem is not with the Palestinians it is with Zionism.

with regards to Palestine and Israel trying my best to stay away from bringing Relgion into the equation yet you keep going to back to read the Quran and become a slave nonsense

Look again, it is the Zionist who have brought religion into the equation. Yes their is religious significance and why is a religious sentiment for Muslim unity and brotherhood a bad thing?

Your insult on me of being a slave is misguided and very unappreciated. You do not know me, to say the least. Besides I believe I had also quoted the Prophet once, and your saying "you keep on going back to the Quran", not true and stop lying...

"Just as i thought.. a guy who can't counter my arguments retreats behind the typical 'Western thinking' rhetoric."

Well that is what you proposed did you not, isn't the inspiration for you thinking is derived from. You make it all open game to attack me if I even mention a quote or saying from the Prophet and call me a slave but I cannot call you out on your beliefs and western thinking, I note western thinking because it is liberal and secular which is significant to point out to let us see why you think this way....

And since you aren't going to post anything constructive i might as well stop responding to your rather childish posts. Come back to me when you grow up

Retreat is always an option.



Edit: Something I had previously missed.

He's still young.. Once he gets into University and studies Democracy 101, Philsophy 101, World politics and International relations, he will than be in a better position to understand what certain things represent or what they mean ideologically and how a countries Constitution works and why its so much better than sticking to religous scriptures and archaic ideas.

Also one last thing!! Your not to young. You are old enough to take actions needed to help the palestinians within your power. If a 13 year old girl from Canada can go shock the world with her speech in the United Nations you can probably raise a 1000 dollars for the children of Gaza and donate it.

"He's still young.. Once he gets into University and studies Democracy 101, Philsophy 101, World politics and International relations, he will than be in a better position to understand what certain things represent or what they mean ideologically and how a countries Constitution works and why its so much better than sticking to religous scriptures and archaic ideas."

Seriously wise up. My intelligence and academic standards are far superior to yours. I have studied many subjects and courses, and have excelled in a wide variety of fields. I have engaged in many University debates, written hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of essays, have read hundreds of published reports, I have delivered lectures and achieved awards in my Academic career something I doubt you could ever surmount.

So don't you dare take shot at my Academic standing.

Also your insults against Islam calling it an "archaic idea" is down right foolish and as earlier mentioned misguided. Islam is compatible with any time it is compatible with the very human nature nothing archaic about it.

Also one last thing!! Your not to young. You are old enough to take actions needed to help the palestinians within your power. If a 13 year old girl from Canada can go shock the world with her speech in the United Nations you can probably raise a 1000 dollars for the children of Gaza and donate it.

I will certainly do my part.

Don't insult me again, understand.

 

[A1Kaid]

You do understand that you live in America, right? If you don't like this kind of thinking, than go live in Saudi Arabia with other "true Muslims". What is with us Pakistanis, always giving into our inferiority complexes

Stop being a cheer leader...


@Durran3

We have debated and shared our views, let us both be mature and call it a night.

 

[TruthSeeker]

Don't worry I will InshAllah do something for the Muslim cause, something far greater...InshAllah. I am currently working towards my goal not just mine but something greater than I though it takes great time and struggle. These are personal matters for now which I will not discuss further.

By the way raising funds provides limited help, as you know not everything can be fixed with money, there is a greater goal InshAllah.

I hope you will remember those words. Though trust me on this, I am active...

A1Kaid, Are you hinting to us that you are secretly planning something violent?