Should Pakistan go for a Twinjet or not?

[bilalshaw]

Before anything else, I must say that I am not an expert in the field. So everything I say here is nothing but my own analysis and intellect.

I have been observing a lot of arguments and debates regarding if 'Pakistan should go for Twinjet or not', and thought of putting forth my point of view.

I would say NO, Pakistan must not go with a twinjet in near future.

First of all, money is not the only problem in buying expensive air-superiority twinjet fighters. There is a lot more to that i.e. maintenance, cost per flight, heat signatures, training etc
Not just that, it also depends on where the airforce is intended to operate.
YES, the area and the combat radius.
There should be a whole lot of a blog about just this topic but I'd try to shorten it as much as I could.

Examples given in this regard are Britain, India, France etc

Britain is an Island and besides her is the friendly European Union.
Actually and literally Britain doesn't need a very strong airforce. They need a strong naval arm which by the way they have best in the world.
RAF operates about 120 Typhoons not because they need it but because its the most advanced fighter in the world after F-22 Raptor and also because its produced especially as a fighter for the European forces. Keep in mind, Britain's military budget is about $70b (10 times the budget of Pakistan's.)

India needs twinjets not because they want to show off but because they literally need it. China lies just above it, a much larger country with a greater strategic depth and then there is Pakistan in the West obviously. India needs a very strong naval arm as well, keeping in view that half of the Indian territory is surrounded by waters (just like Britain), they also need naval versions of the fighters for their aircraft carriers along with it (again just like Britain). So that's why we see India going for twinjets. India's military budget is about $50b (Pakistan's military budget is $7b)

Then comes the maintenance issues with the twinjets esp when you are buying from other countries. Remember few months back when India had to ground all of its Su-30's fleet for maintenance. Remember 6-7 Su-30MKIs have crashed since 2009 due to technical issues.

Another big issue is the infrared(heat) signatures. Bigger engines leave bigger heat signatures. Two engines leave even bigger signatures. So no or very less stealthiness with twinjets. Excluding the F-22 Raptor obviously, all other twinjets leave really big blips on the radar. As a result it is easier for infrared radar to detect a twinjet as compared to a singlejet and hit it with a infrared guided missile.

Prices of modern twinjets (per unit):

Eurofighter Typhoon - $130 m
Dassault Rafale - $100 m
F-15K - $100 m
F/A-18 Super Hornet - $60 m
Su-30 MKI - $60 m
MiG-29 - $30 m

Price of modern singlejets (per unit):

JAS Gripen - $70 m
F-16 E/F - $50 m
JF-17 Block II - $30 m

So in short, one can buy 1 Typhoon or 4 JF-17s.
Which is a better option esp. when you are producing JF-17s locally.

I hope this explains a lot. But as I said, there is still a lot more to mention. Let me know what you think.
NOTE: Prices are of the most advanced variants of the respective jets. The budget amounts are that of 2014.
Sources of facts and figures: Wikipedia.

Thanks to PDF for maintaining such a reliable platform. Best wishes to the Pakistan Air Force and Pakistan Aeronautical Complex Kamra with the future to come.
Best part about JF-17 Thunder is that its scalable, its still evolving, may it be avionics or weapons. God knows what comes out of it after few years. Maybe the best MRF in the world outrunning the F-16.

Pakistan Zindabad

 

[Oracle]

in near future if we will go for double engine jet . it will be J11 or J15 ( chinese jets ) Or J20 / J31.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

00

 

[vizier]

Costwise it is better and also stealthwise better for interceptor roles and also surgical ground strikes. J10b jf17 and experimental f16 with small modifications obtained Dsi intakes hiding engines but even T 50 does not seem to have hidden engines. It needs to be modified to have S intakes like Yf 23. Or side intakes are the norm like J20, F22. larger planes have option like f15se to get conformal bays for stealth but light fighters can have external enclosed weapon bays for the same purpose(proposed for advanced f18 hornet). A single engine fighter with semi stealth addons would be less observable than say f15 se in my opinion.you can also land on highways better with smaller planes. Protection and hiding is easy. J31 is smaller plane although twin engine and fits interceptor roles perfectly for next generation as PAF future backbone.

 

[Sulman Badshah]

F-16 E/F - $50 m

F16 C/D cost about 58 mln USD if purchase without weapon package and support ... E/F should be above 80 mln

 

[Zhukov]

yup. No need for Twin engines in Airforce untill we dont have any other alternative(like J31/F31).
But Long range strike fighters like Flankers will be good for Pakistan navy.

 

[WishLivePak]

I think we need to ask China what they're developing and partake in that. Our jf17 will serve us good for 10 years. So sign up with China for 5+ gen (we are far from 6, so 5+ with some stuff from 6 maybe?) and then produce that in our country.

We need to start our air industry, create high paying jobs. One day we can have our own commercial airplanes too

 

[Rain]

twin engine has an edge: you can go after enemy into depths. in Pakistani India scenario, for example, if we have twin engines long range fighters, IAF will thing thrice before venturing into full blown war. with JF 17 we cant chase enemy jets beyond 200/300 kms.

 

[I S I]

We should go for twin engine jets in future. They looks badass.

 

[nana41]

Before anything else, I must say that I am not an expert in the field. So everything I say here is nothing but my own analysis and intellect.

I have been observing a lot of arguments and debates regarding if 'Pakistan should go for Twinjet or not', and thought of putting forth my point of view.

I would say NO, Pakistan must not go with a twinjet in near future.

First of all, money is not the only problem in buying expensive air-superiority twinjet fighters. There is a lot more to that i.e. maintenance, cost per flight, heat signatures, training etc
Not just that, it also depends on where the airforce is intended to operate.
YES, the area and the combat radius.
There should be a whole lot of a blog about just this topic but I'd try to shorten it as much as I could.

Examples given in this regard are Britain, India, France etc

Britain is an Island and besides her is the friendly European Union.
Actually and literally Britain doesn't need a very strong airforce. They need a strong naval arm which by the way they have best in the world.
RAF operates about 120 Typhoons not because they need it but because its the most advanced fighter in the world after F-22 Raptor and also because its produced especially as a fighter for the European forces. Keep in mind, Britain's military budget is about $70b (10 times the budget of Pakistan's.)

India needs twinjets not because they want to show off but because they literally need it. China lies just above it, a much larger country with a greater strategic depth and then there is Pakistan in the West obviously. India needs a very strong naval arm as well, keeping in view that half of the Indian territory is surrounded by waters (just like Britain), they also need naval versions of the fighters for their aircraft carriers along with it (again just like Britain). So that's why we see India going for twinjets. India's military budget is about $50b (Pakistan's military budget is $7b)

Then comes the maintenance issues with the twinjets esp when you are buying from other countries. Remember few months back when India had to ground all of its Su-30's fleet for maintenance. Remember 6-7 Su-30MKIs have crashed since 2009 due to technical issues.

Another big issue is the infrared(heat) signatures. Bigger engines leave bigger heat signatures. Two engines leave even bigger signatures. So no or very less stealthiness with twinjets. Excluding the F-22 Raptor obviously, all other twinjets leave really big blips on the radar. As a result it is easier for infrared radar to detect a twinjet as compared to a singlejet and hit it with a infrared guided missile.

Prices of modern twinjets (per unit):

Eurofighter Typhoon - $130 m
Dassault Rafale - $100 m
F-15K - $100 m
F/A-18 Super Hornet - $60 m
Su-30 MKI - $60 m
MiG-29 - $30 m

Price of modern singlejets (per unit):

JAS Gripen - $70 m
F-16 E/F - $50 m
JF-17 Block II - $30 m

So in short, one can buy 1 Typhoon or 4 JF-17s.
Which is a better option esp. when you are producing JF-17s locally.

I hope this explains a lot. But as I said, there is still a lot more to mention. Let me know what you think.
NOTE: Prices are of the most advanced variants of the respective jets. The budget amounts are that of 2014.
Sources of facts and figures: Wikipedia.

Thanks to PDF for maintaining such a reliable platform. Best wishes to the Pakistan Air Force and Pakistan Aeronautical Complex Kamra with the future to come.
Best part about JF-17 Thunder is that its scalable, its still evolving, may it be avionics or weapons. God knows what comes out of it after few years. Maybe the best MRF in the world outrunning the F-16.

Pakistan Zindabad

Pakistan Air Force had Chinese made twin engined J-6/Mig19 in large numbers then.Now it will have in near future not only JF-17 but FC-31,a fifth generation stealth fighter/attack aircraft.My guess is this machine will be, eventually and partially,manufactured in Pakistan.FC-31,expensive or not,would be a good counter weapon for increasingly expanding Indian Navy.

 

[I S I]

Pakistan Air Force had Chinese made twin engined J-6/Mig19 in large numbers then.Now it will have in near future not only JF-17 but FC-31,a fifth generation stealth fighter/attack aircraft.My guess is this machine will be, eventually and partially,manufactured in Pakistan.FC-31,expensive or not,would be a good counter weapon for increasingly expanding Indian Navy.

How i forgot J-31 is twin engine?! Yeah guys we're getting a twin engine jet in near future.

 

[CHI RULES]

The twin engine Jets of 5th gen are must for Pak though in limited nubers as proper staelth features will be there,along with benefits of High Flight ceiling, Speed, Heavy Pay Load & Endurance. In case of India or any other aggressor Pak shall require twin engine fighters for deep strike missions both in Case of Navy and PAF.

Further it is my estimation that twin engine chinese jets are further development of Su27/Su30 so it shall be not completely right to compare them in case of technical issues/RCS with previous blocks. Further they have high flight ceiling, some stealthiness and next gen Ammos with heavy pay load.During deep strike missions even if they are detected they shall be in better position to survive and complete their tasks with minimal damadge.

Our JF17 is not doubt a successful and developing jet yet it can't perform deep strike missions and have low flight ceiling along with speed.

Further even in case of twin engine fighter jets scenario Pak can;t afford J31 in large numbers so PAF/PN naval wing in near future shall be compelled to go for J11b or J16 4.5 gen fighter/bombers though may be in limited numbers.

 

[Zarvan]

Before anything else, I must say that I am not an expert in the field. So everything I say here is nothing but my own analysis and intellect.

I have been observing a lot of arguments and debates regarding if 'Pakistan should go for Twinjet or not', and thought of putting forth my point of view.

I would say NO, Pakistan must not go with a twinjet in near future.

First of all, money is not the only problem in buying expensive air-superiority twinjet fighters. There is a lot more to that i.e. maintenance, cost per flight, heat signatures, training etc
Not just that, it also depends on where the airforce is intended to operate.
YES, the area and the combat radius.
There should be a whole lot of a blog about just this topic but I'd try to shorten it as much as I could.

Examples given in this regard are Britain, India, France etc

Britain is an Island and besides her is the friendly European Union.
Actually and literally Britain doesn't need a very strong airforce. They need a strong naval arm which by the way they have best in the world.
RAF operates about 120 Typhoons not because they need it but because its the most advanced fighter in the world after F-22 Raptor and also because its produced especially as a fighter for the European forces. Keep in mind, Britain's military budget is about $70b (10 times the budget of Pakistan's.)

India needs twinjets not because they want to show off but because they literally need it. China lies just above it, a much larger country with a greater strategic depth and then there is Pakistan in the West obviously. India needs a very strong naval arm as well, keeping in view that half of the Indian territory is surrounded by waters (just like Britain), they also need naval versions of the fighters for their aircraft carriers along with it (again just like Britain). So that's why we see India going for twinjets. India's military budget is about $50b (Pakistan's military budget is $7b)

Then comes the maintenance issues with the twinjets esp when you are buying from other countries. Remember few months back when India had to ground all of its Su-30's fleet for maintenance. Remember 6-7 Su-30MKIs have crashed since 2009 due to technical issues.

Another big issue is the infrared(heat) signatures. Bigger engines leave bigger heat signatures. Two engines leave even bigger signatures. So no or very less stealthiness with twinjets. Excluding the F-22 Raptor obviously, all other twinjets leave really big blips on the radar. As a result it is easier for infrared radar to detect a twinjet as compared to a singlejet and hit it with a infrared guided missile.

Prices of modern twinjets (per unit):

Eurofighter Typhoon - $130 m
Dassault Rafale - $100 m
F-15K - $100 m
F/A-18 Super Hornet - $60 m
Su-30 MKI - $60 m
MiG-29 - $30 m

Price of modern singlejets (per unit):

JAS Gripen - $70 m
F-16 E/F - $50 m
JF-17 Block II - $30 m

So in short, one can buy 1 Typhoon or 4 JF-17s.
Which is a better option esp. when you are producing JF-17s locally.

I hope this explains a lot. But as I said, there is still a lot more to mention. Let me know what you think.
NOTE: Prices are of the most advanced variants of the respective jets. The budget amounts are that of 2014.
Sources of facts and figures: Wikipedia.

Thanks to PDF for maintaining such a reliable platform. Best wishes to the Pakistan Air Force and Pakistan Aeronautical Complex Kamra with the future to come.
Best part about JF-17 Thunder is that its scalable, its still evolving, may it be avionics or weapons. God knows what comes out of it after few years. Maybe the best MRF in the world outrunning the F-16.

Pakistan Zindabad

I think we should 270 JF-17 along with 100 F-16 and 100 J-11 D should be the way forward. After these we should focus on development of J-31 and get them.

 

[Super Falcon]

Without any doubt it is order of the advanced battlefield with greater speed range and weapons PAF is one dimensional force countried like indonesia have twin engine jet i think entire muslim world pak is only country is using single jet most others are ordering rafale etc jets time to move forward and get out of love affair with F 16 and jf 17

 

[Bilal saqib]

Twin engine has so many benefits over single engine why u people think always cost cost cost think out of box the rest of world is not idiot who "Almost" use Twin engine jets, In a combat scenario Twin engine has more Speed+ Weapons load, large radar, more fuel, more range, more chances of survive at low altitudes due to dual engine if SAM or AAA attack, if we work on Cost benefit analysis of "War" then Twin engine are better. Here we are not talking about commercial jets we think about maintenance, Capital cost etc we ll Use them in War so think about Cost benefit of War scenario a Twin engine jet has has advantage over single engine of Same generation jet, PAF must go for Quality over Quantity.. According to me 5 Su30MKK are better then 15 JF-17, compare cost of 5 Su30 over 15 JF17...! Well em not very expert in this field any expert there for comments suggestions..