"Shining India, Swaggering India" - Times of India

[deckingraj]

So how else do you want the Indians to behave?

Exactly the way they are..My point is in an alien land one is more vigilant about not breaking rules/pissing of locals as compared to what he/she will do in home town. Do you have some sort of disagreement???

 

[notsuperstitious]

Whats with these chinese trolls under various flags acting like they always do? And that chini lizard with that movie clip is a real joke. While reality is slightly different.

http://www.globaltimes.cn/NEWS/tabi...eting-for-title-of-worlds-worst-tourists.aspx

 

[baajey]

Honestly think about it...When i am in a foreign land don't you think it is but obvious that i will do my best not to piss of the local diaspora?? I mean forget about foreign land...Even in India if you travel to different parts you try your best not to insult/disturb the locals, no?? This type of behavior is quiet logical...In US i have seen Indians just parroting the rules and following them like a kid who is afraid that his teacher will punish him otherwise....However if you are being pissed just because i am conservative then i am sorry..that behavior is termed "racist"...As long as i am not bothering you then it is none of your biz that i am conservative or not...as far as pissing on road, bothering women etc etc..then there are laws against them...breaking those laws has nothing to do with just Indians...There are bad and good people in all forms of life, no???

very nice.....basically u r agreeing with me but in a different way. let me put it in otehr way.
1. i m not pissed that u r conservative. please point out which sentence of mine made u think this way. n if theres any i apologize very sincerely.
2. please dont abuse the term "racist". i m sure u wud understand.
3. well it doesnt bother me at all if u do the activities in bold, but it wud sadden me very much thinking my compatriot (no matter settled elsewhere) is bringing shame to my country. other than that, brother our country is full of those ppl. i wud rather watch my back than advice the US authorities about somebody pissing or bothering women.
hope i made myself clear this time.

 

[Sashan]

I am a Sikh...There is no concept of wearing a turban in US...does that mean i should cut my hairs??? If not then i cannot be a part of Be a Roman in Rome concept in its totality, no???...Now as far as tipping is concerned then there are many Americans who don't do that as well...Once again spending money, tipping etc has nothing to do with Indians...I used to tip 20% and my American friends used to tease me a loaded chap....so it is just your perception...b/w in an alien land it is very hard to adapt 100%...

Wearing a turban is your personal choice - Like how Payot is for Jews and Hijab for muslims. I do not have an opinion on it. But as for the tipping, it is a general practice and it is mostly Indians - especially Indians who come on short-term tend to do that a lot.As you said it is just my perception. Nothing wrong in that? right? Like I do not question yours about you stating that Americans do that as well.

 

[CZAR]

We are a basically a people and a nation who have the capacity to feed, clothe and gainfully employ a segment of your population which your own government is unable to provide for. That's who we are. We may be a drop in the ocean next to your gigantic population and land mass, yet we outperform u on every level.

Deal with it.



I don't deny there was some initial prejudice to begin with. But Indian posters over here just made it worse by dragging in my ethnicity and by constantly deflecting the argument with alot of other irrelevant stuff. My initial point was about how Indians do not really seem to fit in when they are abroad, citing my own country as an example. It is very relevant to the topic. And then it went downhill from there.

Yeah...that's right. You and your "countrymen" (if you can fathom the idea of a few scraps of land being called a nation) devised a formula of keeping it together on a few dozen sq kms with about less people than in a suburb of delhi / mumbai and that effort needs to be applauded and is completely comparable with the indian experience which features the 7th largest land mass, second biggest population (also one of the most diverse) and the 3rd biggest economy on PPP terms.

Listening to you boast, is like listening a pampered pet dog chewing on Pedigree (the dog food) advising a crocodile how to bite.

Next, as for providing gainful employment to Indians and Indians adjusting overseas – you almost make the Indian presence overseas sound like a handout. The Indian Diaspora is highly qualified and in several instances has formed strong economic and political lobbies overseas, with annual income of the members of the Diaspora, often, exceeding that of the locals. The US is an example.

Indians are present overseas owing to merit and not any favours, and maybe because the local talent (as MAYBE in the case of Singapore) was not competent enough.

 

[bindaas]

There is a difference between the United States of America and America as a region/ continent, the same as Sout Africa as a country and South Africa as the region that includes Nambia, Lesotho, Botswana and Swaziland, the EU is not representative of the whole of Europe. India the region included Pakistan, Sri Lanka, Nepal and Bangladesh at that time but these modern nations were not a united country when Columbus sailed to the west. Try to see and understand the difference.

Concept of Nation state instead of empire is just a recent term. India has always existed since ancient time which we always called as Bharatvarsha for whole of subcontinent and the word is explicitly mention in our ancient literary works.

 

[deckingraj]

Wearing a turban is your personal choice - Like how Payot is for Jews and Hijab for muslims. I do not have an opinion on it. But as for the tipping, it is a general practice and it is mostly Indians - especially Indians who come on short-term tend to do that a lot.As you said it is just my perception. Nothing wrong in that? right? Like I do not question yours about you stating that Americans do that as well.

I am not asking you to change your perception...I am just telling you the other side of the story...I hope you understand...My only point is that it is very hard for people to adapt 100%...For instance look at the Indians who are born/brought up in US...they typically behave like what an American will do...Anyhow i have made my point...Thanks!!!

 

[Sashan]

Exactly the way they are..My point is in an alien land one is more vigilant about not breaking rules/pissing of locals as compared to what he/she will do in home town. Do you have some sort of disagreement???

when you stated this - "In US i have seen Indians just parroting the rules and following them like a kid who is afraid that his teacher will punish him otherwise" - I thought you had a different view

 

[Götterdämmerung]

Concept of Nation state instead of empire is just a recent term. India has always existed since ancient time which we always called as Bharatvarsha for whole of subcontinent and the word is explicitly mention in our ancient literary works.

Columbus was searching for India and didn't know anything about Bharat and other names of that region and what you call Bharatvarsha was not governed by a centralised government the same as Europe has been called Europe for centuries but the EU still does not represent the whole of Europe.

And now stop your revisionist narration of Indian history.

 

[kumarkumar1867]

No u r not a Indian Singaporean...! U may have Tamil ancestry but u r in no way a Tamil or Indian for that matter...U are kid with self esteem problems...actually i have seen such people in my college days...when some kid goes to a college away from his hometown and finds himself with out friends, he tries to be 'cool' by degrading his hometown. He thinks that will bring him more friends...but the truth is he is loner...thats exactly what u r doing here...All the stories u have said at the beginning of this thread only shows u need the acceptance of Chinese members here...thats why we are seeing a lot @$$ kissing here by u...

I was thinking EXACTLY the same about him

 

[deckingraj]

very nice.....basically u r agreeing with me but in a different way. let me put it in otehr way..

Actually i am not...My point is that the things on which you are ashamed of fellow Indians is not Indian specific...These laws are broken by people from all corners irrespective of their flags...

1. i m not pissed that u r conservative. please point out which sentence of mine made u think this way. n if theres any i apologize very sincerely.
2. please dont abuse the term "racist". i m sure u wud understand.
3. well it doesnt bother me at all if u do the activities in bold, but it wud sadden me very much thinking my compatriot (no matter settled elsewhere) is bringing shame to my country. other than that, brother our country is full of those ppl. i wud rather watch my back than advice the US authorities about somebody pissing or bothering women.
hope i made myself clear this time.

1. No need to apologize..b/w i am not conservative either..
2. I know what you mean...However i did not wanted to type a lot...Stereotyping is not as evil as racism but is still evil..
3. Again how is that bringing shame to India...An act of people which has nothing to do with only Indians cannot and shouldn't bring shame to India..As said Indians in general are more than sensitive of not breaking rules...Call it fear of law or whatever but that is my experience with Indian counterparts...My only compain with them is that they don't even try to mix up with Americans and learn their culture...However saying that Indians are pissing on American streets and making women uncomfortable or what not is taking the debate to a different level which fortunately has no basis...You see lot of Indians pissing on roads in India but the same people take a u turn once they land in western world because they know Uncle SAM is not going to tolerate it...I am extending the same logic to Singapore...

 

[bindaas]

Columbus was searching for India and didn't know anything about Bharat and other names of that region and what you call Bharatvarsha was not governed by a centralised government the same as Europe has been called Europe for centuries but the EU still does not represent the whole of Europe.

And now stop your revisionist narration of Indian history.

Why should I bother If Arabs called us Hind or Chinese called us Tianzhu, we have always called our country as Bharat or Bharatvarsha since ancient times. As a Indian should I really want to learn our history from a Chinese hiding behind a German flag.

 

[Sashan]

I am not asking you to change your perception...I am just telling you the other side of the story...I hope you understand...My only point is that it is very hard for people to adapt 100%...For instance look at the Indians who are born/brought up in US...they typically behave like what an American will do...Anyhow i have made my point...Thanks!!!

Actually before I could type the response, Baajey in post #245 exactly reflected my thoughts.(the first line of point 3)

Nothing wrong with your religious practices. But if someone from my country brings shame through their behavior that bothers me. The otherside of story - if the same behavior is exhibited by others, I don't give a damn.

 

[jbond197]

Actually i am not...My point is that the things on which you are ashamed of fellow Indians is not Indian specific...These laws are broken by people from all corners irrespective of their flags...



1. No need to apologize..b/w i am not conservative either..
2. I know what you mean...However i did not wanted to type a lot...Stereotyping is not as evil as racism but is still evil..
3. Again how is that bringing shame to India...An act of people which has nothing to do with only Indians cannot and shouldn't bring shame to India..As said Indians in general are more than sensitive of not breaking rules...Call it fear of law or whatever but that is my experience with Indian counterparts...My only compain with them is that they don't even try to mix up with Americans and learn their culture...However saying that Indians are pissing on American streets and making women uncomfortable or what not is taking the debate to a different level which fortunately has no basis...You see lot of Indians pissing on roads in India but the same people take a u turn once they land in western world because they know Uncle SAM is not going to tolerate it...I am extending the same logic to Singapore...

Don't generalize on bold part buddy!!

 

[CZAR]

No, it is not exactly like what u think it is over here in Singapore. The PRC Chinese coming over here, also in large number have Mandarin as a bridge to help them out integrate with the mainstream Singaporean culture. The Chinese Singaporean plays an important part in this.

It works differently for the Indians. The 'native' community here in Singapore is the Tamil community. Like I mentioned earlier it is a culture that developed over here independently of the subcontinent for 2 centuries almost. The incoming Indians however are Hindi-based, both the language and customs are alien to most Singaporeans and that is where alot of the conflicts start. The aliens tend to think 'Indian Singaporean' should follow something along the lines of the Republic of India, Hindi should be used to represent them and they are superior etc. Alot of those dynamics they are used to back in their country, they bring it across here. That's where the conflict starts, it began with the Hindi issue and now it has gone and spread to even religious ones. A new one is the issue on how temples should be used. Alot of those coming in from India are used to the concept of having temples as community places where they congregate to catch up. As opposed to our more pragmatic Singaporean style which is, 'go in, say your prayers, GTFO and go back or go to a coffeeshop and catch up'.

Though the Indian Singaporean culture did have its beginnings in the Indian subcontinent 2 centuries ago, it is an identity in its own right and has developed completely independent of India. That is something many aliens coming in fail to understand and appreciate. They want the Republic of India to replace the Indian Singaporean culture, which sorry fellas, ain't happening. The more u push the bigger the backlash you would face so it's best to stop lording over us.

As for Pakistanis, yes, in Singapore they integrate alot faster. Not saying this to be biased in their favor, no. First their community is alot smaller. Secondly they integrate with the local Muslim community quickly with no hassles. Many of those whom I've seen tend to be pleasant and religious at the same time. When it comes to Pakistanis, u guys have to also understand one thing. You guys in India hate them over the partition, which to us is a non-issue. Anything to do with Kashmir is also a non-issue to Indian Singaporeans. So when we see Pakistanis, we take them for what they are as regular people and we don't consider any of their political problems. They understand this over here and mingle with the Indian Singaporean community as well. So there are no problems we really noticed. That's why I did not mention anything about Pakistanis, cos there is nothing to talk about.

Just one word tough guy - Xenophobia.

I mean speaking of backlash and all that?!

There's a demand supply chain in the labour market. Indians are in Singapore because they are qualified and meritorious and they are being offered job because they are required to contribute to the singapore growth story. People are always accompanied by their cultural baggage. The local society, if it hopes to attract the best of talent and investment, cannot impose rigid social sanctions on cultural inklings of the visitors. One has to be understandable and hospitable. Let not moral policing replace genuine policing and adherence to the local laws.

If law of the land is violated - sure - slap them with fines, jail terms, make them move lock, stock and barrel...but let’s not be xenophobic.

One would expect more from an educated global citizen.