Shed insecurities: India to Pakistan

[username]

You need proof of accusations made by Pakistanis on indian establishment. Fair enough.

YOU GOT IT...

Yet you are just a comment away from accusing us of Rwandan genocide, metaphorically speaking. Where is your proof!

None of my posts makes outright accusations, you can quote those posts which makes you say that I was just short of accusing you for Rwandan genocide, then we can talk.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Foreign secretary Nirupama Rao, who asked Pakistan to get real, said Islamabad should not entertain the feeling that the strategic leverage gained by India after the Indo-US nuclear deal would be targeted against the neighbour.

Shouldn't Rao worry more about India's 'insecurities', when India wants special treatment solely for itself in obtaining an NSG exemption and is opposing the sale of 2 Chinese NPP's to Pakistan/

Shouldn't Rao worry more about India's 'insecurities' when India protests every single weapons system acquisition by Pakistan?

Rao's comments are precisely why the proverb, 'Pahlay apnay girayban may jhankon', was invented.

 

[Aslan]

I am surprised you are still not getting it. None of my posts makes outright accusations, you can quote those posts which makes you say that I was just short of accusing you for Rwandan genocide, then we can talk.

Fair enough I dont like to argue in circle it probably works for you so till then and good luck with the

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Whether India is a perfect society or not is a domestic problem (I am sure you will agree with me on this). Your government is not capable of containing the problem (be it civilian government or military government). It is no more your domestic problem, your state as it is not able to control attrocities commited by your country's terrorists has become a global menace. I don't know whether your government can give such IRRESPONSIBLE answers to the world, but it is completely ABSURD.

If you are not able to contain the problem locally then you should give way to other countries coming into your country and solve it.

When you can prevent all domestic terrorism in India and prevent all crime, then and only then can you argue that India might be able to do a better job in containing crime and terrorism in Pakistan.

As of now India is failing miserably in containing crime, violence, terrorism and insurgency on its own soil, so making demands of 'going into another country to prevent terrorism' only makes you look foolish.

 

[desiman]

Shouldn't Rao worry more about India's 'insecurities', when India wants special treatment solely for itself in obtaining an NSG exemption and is opposing the sale of 2 Chinese NPP's to Pakistan/

Shouldn't Rao worry more about India's 'insecurities' when India protests every single weapons system acquisition by Pakistan?

Rao's comments are precisely why the proverb, 'Pahlay apnay girayban may jhankon', was invented.

and comments by most Pakistani leaders and Pakistanis remind me of the proverb, APNA GHAR TOH SAMALA NEHI JATA AUR DUSAROON KE GHAR MEIN AAJ LAGANE CHALE HAI

 

[username]

Fair enough I dont like to argue in circle it probably works for you so till then and good luck with the

finally another picture, I was mistaken that you will be able to make logical arguments.

 

[Aslan]

finally another picture, I was mistaken that you will be able to make logical arguments.

It was as logical as one can get with u; so bye bye buddy.

 

[username]

When you can prevent all domestic terrorism in India and prevent all crime, then and only then can you argue that India might be able to do a better job in containing crime and terrorism in Pakistan.

As of now India is failing miserably in containing crime, violence, terrorism and insurgency on its own soil, so making demands of 'going into another country to prevent terrorism'

India is successful in making sure that its own territory is not used for terrorism in other countries AGAINST ITS WILL. So India as well as lot of other countries in the world can make sure that your problems (terrorism, crime etc) remains domestic, from there onwards you can take care...

I never said that India will be able to solve terrorism in your country fully so that it is not even a domestic problem for you, India will be least bothered (except on humanitarian grounds) if terrosim attacks happen in your country as it will only be a domestic problem.

only makes you look foolish.

This is uncalled for...

 

[username]

It was as logical as one can get with u; so bye bye buddy.

Thank you very much for your proofs khalidali...

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

There is a huge difference, they are uniformed men, no country can call them any such thing (recent example being Canada saying something and then appologising for it)... So let us not put uniformed men in that.

Why not? If Indian security forces deliberately kill, torture and rape civilians, then they are committing acts of terrorism and are terrorists. I fail to see how wearing a uniform changes the nature of the act - it is still the murder of an innocent, the rape of an innocent, the torture of an innocent, ostensibly in pursuit of a political objective of perpetuating Indian occupation of J&K.

Our Uniformed men :-
1. Force of a democratically elected goverment operating under the order of elected government. This translates to whatever action done by our forces implicates that it is the people's wish.
Force is owned by government, whatever actions done by them resembles the wish of people as government can NOT disown them.

Hitler's Nazi terrorists were at one point 'elected' as well. Just because a government is 'elected' does not mean its policies, or the actions of those charged with implementing those policies, are automatically correct and legitimate. The tens of thousands of murders, rapes and torture of innocent Kashmiris by Indian SF's obviously indicates that not to be the case.

Your Insurgent :- Faceless
Your own government is disowning them, saying that they are not state actors, what more can I say ? Is there a bigger shame in you working for your government and your government disowning you in front of the whole world ?

So what if they are 'disowned'? That is our problem. The issue here remains the acts themselves, not what the people committing them are called and whether they wear a uniform or not.

Terrorism is the act of deliberately committing violence against civilians (you may insert 'in pursuit of a political objective' here if you wish). I fail to see how a uniform changes the nature of the act.

 

[desiman]

Why not? If Indian security forces deliberately kill, torture and rape civilians, then they are committing acts of terrorism and are terrorists. I fail to see how wearing a uniform changes the nature of the act - it is still the murder of an innocent, the rape of an innocent, the torture of an innocent, ostensibly in pursuit of a political objective of perpetuating Indian occupation of J&K.

Let me explain what is the difference between uniformed men and your terrorists whom you prefer to call as freedom fighters.

And one more thing is that I will not go into proofs like Kashmir insurgents do attrocities etc, as that will take the debate in other course...


Hitler's Nazi terrorists were at one point 'elected' as well. Just because a government is 'elected' does not mean its policies, or the actions of those charged with implementing those policies, are automatically correct and legitimate. The tens of thousands of murders, rapes and torture of innocent Kashmiris by Indian SF's obviously indicates that not to be the case.

So what if they are 'disowned'? That is our problem. The issue here remains the acts themselves, not what the people committing them are called and whether they wear a uniform or not.

Terrorism is the act of deliberately committing violence against civilians (you may insert 'in pursuit of a political objective' here if you wish). I fail to see how a uniform changes the nature of the act.

Agnostic, this should be a good read for you, an amazing article -

http://www.defence.pk/forums/strategic-geopolitical-issues/61957-pakistan-living-denial.html#post933413

 

[username]

Why not? If Indian security forces deliberately kill, torture and rape civilians, then they are committing acts of terrorism and are terrorists. I fail to see how wearing a uniform changes the nature of the act - it is still the murder of an innocent, the rape of an innocent, the torture of an innocent, ostensibly in pursuit of a political objective of perpetuating Indian occupation of J&K.

Let me explain what is the difference between uniformed men and your terrorists whom you prefer to call as freedom fighters.

And one more thing is that I will not go into proofs like Kashmir insurgents do attrocities etc, as that will take the debate in other course...


Hitler's Nazi terrorists were at one point 'elected' as well. Just because a government is 'elected' does not mean its policies, or the actions of those charged with implementing those policies, are automatically correct and legitimate. The tens of thousands of murders, rapes and torture of innocent Kashmiris by Indian SF's obviously indicates that not to be the case.

So what if they are 'disowned'? That is our problem. The issue here remains the acts themselves, not what the people committing them are called and whether they wear a uniform or not.

Terrorism is the act of deliberately committing violence against civilians (you may insert 'in pursuit of a political objective' here if you wish). I fail to see how a uniform changes the nature of the act.

Tall claims which I completely disagree with... anyways the main point of discussion between us was different, let us get back to that, and I would be pleased you could also do so...

Yes your government disowning your own freedom fighters is your domestic problem, I don't care, thanks for pointing out, let us get back to the main point which we were discussing shall we ?

 

[PracticalGuy]

.....

So what if they are 'disowned'? That is our problem. The issue here remains the acts themselves, not what the people committing them are called and whether they wear a uniform or not.
.....

yeah right... thats ur problem as long as they are doing "mountain trekking" in ur territory... but as soon as they violate Indian territory..thats no more only "your" problem..

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Agnostic, this should be a good read for you, an amazing article -

http://www.defence.pk/forums/strategic-geopolitical-issues/61957-pakistan-living-denial.html#post933413

Does not in any way substantiate your points by way of providing evidence of a single act of terrorism that the Pakistani State has supported.

So please, instead of posting opinions on social issues and public opinion, get back to looking for credible evidence, a task that you and others have failed miserably at.

 

[username]

Does not in any way substantiate your points by way of providing evidence of a single act of terrorism that the Pakistani State has supported.

So please, instead of posting opinions on social issues and public opinion, get back to looking for credible evidence, a task that you and others have failed miserably at.

Have YOU been successful at providing the necessary credible evidence ?