Shaan Taseer booked for 'hate speech' following Christmas message.

[Valar Dohaeris]

because Muslims tend to over react.no other country other than few Muslim one hag people for such reasons

The topic of discussion is 295/c, which is the law of the land. Reaction of the people is different thing.

 

[Hell hound]

The topic of discussion is 295/c, which is the law of the land. Reaction of the people is different thing.

this thread is not even about blasphemy law its about a hate speech FIR

 

[Valar Dohaeris]

this thread is not even about blasphemy law its about a hate speech FIR

So hate speech should be ignored ? And left to the Almighty.

 

[That Guy]

Speaking up against the law or discussing a matter which is of no relevance to someone are two different things. If the matter is in the court of law then one should not resort to any interference especially if it is at the behest of a public office and as whether the law is debatable or not trying to influence it is also against the law. If that woman had not been thrown into jail then most probably she would have been killed, so on the flip side the law has preserved her life so far. Do you believe that if the laws do get eliminated, will that stop raging mobs from charging at the accused? No, right? Same is the case with Salman Taseer's murder, repelling the laws wont repel the people from taking matters into their own hands.

What are you even talking about?

A common citizen has every right to talk about, question, and protest any law they deem to be inappropriate, it does not matter if it is being discussed within the court of law. Your accusation of interference only applies to those that hold public office AND DIRECTLY influence the courts, which did not happen.

If the police did their jobs properly, it doesn't matter if an angry mob tried to attack her, she would be safe out in the public. Need I remind you, she is currently on death row, and was only spared the rope, because during her appeal process, one of the judges resigned.

Do I believe that things will change if the law is repealed? Not immediately, but things will start to change in the medium to long term, as people start becoming complacent. If the law is repealed, people will have no reason or excuse to try and have the accused arrested/potentially-executed. Humans are complacent creatures, ones a certain situation sets in, they move on.

The mobs will always be there, better to give them less ammunition by removing their legal channels, and using the police to the fullest to disperse the mobs.

Society will slowly change, if the effort is made, but if you don't start, nothing will change ever. Like it or not, eventually this law will be repealed, as nothing like this lasts forever. Considering how controversial it is, it may be sooner, rather than later.

According to several hadiths, Muhammad ordered a number of enemies executed "in the hours after Mecca's fall". One of those who was killed was Ka'b ibn al-Ashraf, because he had insulted Muhammad.[12]

The Prophet said, "Who is ready to kill Ka'b ibn al-Ashraf who has really hurt Allah and His Apostle?" Muhammad bin Maslama said, "O Allah's Apostle! Do you like me to kill him?" He replied in the affirmative. So, Muhammad bin Maslama went to him (i.e. Ka'b) and said, "This person (i.e. the Prophet) has put us to task and asked us for charity." Ka'b replied, "By Allah, you will get tired of him." Muhammad said to him, "We have followed him, so we dislike to leave him till we see the end of his affair." Muhammad bin Maslama went on talking to him in this way till he got the chance to kill him. Narrated Jabir bin 'Abdullah

— Sahih al-Bukhari, 4:52:270, see also Sahih al-Bukhari, 5:59:369, 3:45:687, 4:52:271
It has been narrated on the authority of Jabir that the Messenger of Allah said: Who will kill Ka'b b. Ashraf? He has maligned Allah, the Exalted, and His Messenger. Muhammad b. Maslama said: Messenger of Allah, do you wish that I should kill him? He said: Yes. He said: Permit me to talk (to him in the way I deem fit). He said: Talk (as you like).

— Sahih Muslim, 19:4436
Muhammad declared that there shall be no punishment for murdering anyone who disparages, abuses or insults him (tashtimu, sabb al rasool),[4]

Narrated Ali ibn AbuTalib: A Jewess used to abuse the Prophet and disparage him. A man strangled her till she died. The Apostle of Allah declared that no recompense was payable for her blood.

— Sunan Abu Dawood, 38:4349 see also Sunan Abu Dawood, 38:4348

Islam regards blasphemy against the Prophet a very heinous crime and the Quran strongly forbids blasphemy and makes 11 references to it: 2:88, 4:15, 5:17, 5:64, 5:68, 5:73, 6:19, 9:74, 11:19, 14:28, 39:8. They are all against it. At the conquest of Makkah, the Holy Prophet Muhammad (p.u.h.) announced general amnesty to all except those who were guilty of blasphemous acts and sacrilegious statements. Both Nasai and Sunan Abu Daud, famous Hadith books, narrate that a slave Jew woman was killed by her master for her repeated blasphemy against the Prophet and when the case was brought to the Prophet’s notice he declared no retaliation against the master. (Hadith No.4348)

@Hell hound @The Sandman
If you will ignore people the same way you ignore those who insult or humiliate sacred values of Islam, than only you could talk about following the Sunnah.
So, if someone insult you, your family, your loved ones, your country, your favorite leaders, your favorite institutions, then you must ignore them. So, your stance regarding blasphemy will be justified, otherwise hypocrite.

Wow, nice cherry picking.

 

[Hell hound]

this thread is not even about blasphemy law its about a hate speech FIR

it was you who pointed out that we should stay on topic. i am just saying that the topic of this thread is strictly a hate speech FIR not blasphemy law and as per your suggestion we should stick to the topic

The topic of discussion is 295/c, which is the law of the land. Reaction of the people is different thing.

 

[Valar Dohaeris]

Wow, nice cherry picking.

So, you should come up with a comprehensive answer, and show us all the references and prove your final verdict.

 

[Zibago]

So my faith will be judged on how much I close my eyes upon seeing persistent hate speech and insult, which is forbidden in almost every part of the world.
Why all this is being said for the when it comes to hate speech against Islam ?


And so does not the section 295/c includes any provision for hanging in the street and burning alive.

But people do and blasphemy law emboldens them

 

[Valar Dohaeris]

But people do and blasphemy law emboldens them

Where ?

295-A. Deliberate and malicious acts intended to outrage religious feelings of any class by insulting Its religion or religious beliefs:
Whoever, with deliberate and malicious intention of outraging the 'religious feelings of any class of the citizens of Pakistan, by words, either spoken or written, or by visible representations insults the religion or the religious beliefs of that class, shall be punished with imprisonment of either description for a term which may extend to ten years, or with fine, or with both.
295-B. Defiling, etc., of Holy Qur'an:
Whoever wilfully defiles, damages or desecrates a copy of the Holy Qur'an or of an extract therefrom or uses it in any derogatory manner or for any unlawful purpose shall be punishable with imprisonment for life.
295-C. Use of derogatory remarks, etc., in respect of the Holy Prophet:
Whoever by words, either spoken or written, or by visible representation or by any imputation, innuendo, or insinuation, directly or indirectly, defiles the sacred name of the Holy Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) shall be punished with death, or imprisonment for life, and shall also be liable to fine.
296. Disturbing religious assembly:
Whoever voluntarily causes disturbance to any assembly lawfully engaged in the performance of religious worship, or religious ceremonies, shall be punished with imprisonment of either description for a term which may extend to one year, or with fine, or with both.

 

[Zibago]

Where ?

295-A. Deliberate and malicious acts intended to outrage religious feelings of any class by insulting Its religion or religious beliefs:
Whoever, with deliberate and malicious intention of outraging the 'religious feelings of any class of the citizens of Pakistan, by words, either spoken or written, or by visible representations insults the religion or the religious beliefs of that class, shall be punished with imprisonment of either description for a term which may extend to ten years, or with fine, or with both.
295-B. Defiling, etc., of Holy Qur'an:
Whoever wilfully defiles, damages or desecrates a copy of the Holy Qur'an or of an extract therefrom or uses it in any derogatory manner or for any unlawful purpose shall be punishable with imprisonment for life.
295-C. Use of derogatory remarks, etc., in respect of the Holy Prophet:
Whoever by words, either spoken or written, or by visible representation or by any imputation, innuendo, or insinuation, directly or indirectly, defiles the sacred name of the Holy Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) shall be punished with death, or imprisonment for life, and shall also be liable to fine.
296. Disturbing religious assembly:
Whoever voluntarily causes disturbance to any assembly lawfully engaged in the performance of religious worship, or religious ceremonies, shall be punished with imprisonment of either description for a term which may extend to one year, or with fine, or with both.

The fact that there exists a law in which mere statements cpuld get you arrested means people will misuse it a guy did exactly that in Islamabad to grab his uncle,s property and we all remember famous rimsha masih case

 

[Valar Dohaeris]

it was you who pointed out that we should stay on topic. i am just saying that the topic of this thread is strictly a hate speech FIR not blasphemy law and as per your suggestion we should stick to the topic

Read again the title of the thread.

 

[Hell hound]

Read again the title of the thread.

yeah it clearly states a guy being booked for hate speech not blasphemy.

 

[That Guy]

So, you should come up with a comprehensive answer, and show us all the references and prove your final verdict.

I'll let actual scholars answer you...

Context is important. Cherry picking quotes without context is dangerous.

 

[The Sandman]

According to several hadiths, Muhammad ordered a number of enemies executed "in the hours after Mecca's fall". One of those who was killed was Ka'b ibn al-Ashraf, because he had insulted Muhammad.[12]

The Prophet said, "Who is ready to kill Ka'b ibn al-Ashraf who has really hurt Allah and His Apostle?" Muhammad bin Maslama said, "O Allah's Apostle! Do you like me to kill him?" He replied in the affirmative. So, Muhammad bin Maslama went to him (i.e. Ka'b) and said, "This person (i.e. the Prophet) has put us to task and asked us for charity." Ka'b replied, "By Allah, you will get tired of him." Muhammad said to him, "We have followed him, so we dislike to leave him till we see the end of his affair." Muhammad bin Maslama went on talking to him in this way till he got the chance to kill him. Narrated Jabir bin 'Abdullah

— Sahih al-Bukhari, 4:52:270, see also Sahih al-Bukhari, 5:59:369, 3:45:687, 4:52:271
It has been narrated on the authority of Jabir that the Messenger of Allah said: Who will kill Ka'b b. Ashraf? He has maligned Allah, the Exalted, and His Messenger. Muhammad b. Maslama said: Messenger of Allah, do you wish that I should kill him? He said: Yes. He said: Permit me to talk (to him in the way I deem fit). He said: Talk (as you like).

— Sahih Muslim, 19:4436
Muhammad declared that there shall be no punishment for murdering anyone who disparages, abuses or insults him (tashtimu, sabb al rasool),[4]

Narrated Ali ibn AbuTalib: A Jewess used to abuse the Prophet and disparage him. A man strangled her till she died. The Apostle of Allah declared that no recompense was payable for her blood.

— Sunan Abu Dawood, 38:4349 see also Sunan Abu Dawood, 38:4348

Islam regards blasphemy against the Prophet a very heinous crime and the Quran strongly forbids blasphemy and makes 11 references to it: 2:88, 4:15, 5:17, 5:64, 5:68, 5:73, 6:19, 9:74, 11:19, 14:28, 39:8. They are all against it. At the conquest of Makkah, the Holy Prophet Muhammad (p.u.h.) announced general amnesty to all except those who were guilty of blasphemous acts and sacrilegious statements. Both Nasai and Sunan Abu Daud, famous Hadith books, narrate that a slave Jew woman was killed by her master for her repeated blasphemy against the Prophet and when the case was brought to the Prophet’s notice he declared no retaliation against the master. (Hadith No.4348)

@Hell hound @The Sandman
If you will ignore people the same way you ignore those who insult or humiliate sacred values of Islam, than only you could talk about following the Sunnah.
So, if someone insult you, your family, your loved ones, your country, your favorite leaders, your favorite institutions, then you must ignore them. So, your stance regarding blasphemy will be justified, otherwise hypocrite.

My brain & heart doesn't allow me to even think that a man who came with a message of peace who's job was to spread the message of peace who spared a whole city who insulted him humiliated him even injured him would order an execution of someone just because he insulted him. A lot hadeeths can be true but not everyone of them.
http://www.mohammedamin.com/Community_issues/How-reliable-are-hadith.html

 

[Djinn]

What are you even talking about?

A common citizen has every right to talk about, question, and protest any law they deem to be inappropriate, it does not matter if it is being discussed within the court of law. Your accusation of interference only applies to those that hold public office AND DIRECTLY influence the courts, which did not happen.

If the police did their jobs properly, it doesn't matter if an angry mob tried to attack her, she would be safe out in the public. Need I remind you, she is currently on death row, and was only spared the rope, because during her appeal process, one of the judges resigned.

Do I believe that things will change if the law is repealed? Not immediately, but things will start to change in the medium to long term, as people start becoming complacent. If the law is repealed, people will have no reason or excuse to try and have the accused arrested/potentially-executed. Humans are complacent creatures, ones a certain situation sets in, they move on.

The mobs will always be there, better to give them less ammunition by removing their legal channels, and using the police to the fullest to disperse the mobs.

Society will slowly change, if the effort is made, but if you don't start, nothing will change ever. Like it or not, eventually this law will be repealed, as nothing like this lasts forever. Considering how controversial it is, it may be sooner, rather than later.

I am talking about Salman Taseer trying to influence that woman's case...............That's exactly what happened and it is no secret.
If the Pakistani police could protect people it would have also saved those two Muslim brothers who got lynched in Sialkot. That's the sorry state of affairs in Pakistan and even if you are a minority you have to act smart in your owncapacities. Remember Junaid Jamshed, even as a practicing religious man he was accused of Blasphemy and even got attacked.
For Muslims religion is no ordinary matter. While it is still speculative I don't see how people will come to accept any sort of blasphemy whether its repugnant to the laws of the land or not. If I am not wrong Bangladesh has no such laws and still some alleged blasphemers get hacked to death occasionally...If what you are saying is to be accepted it has already proven it's futility, No?
Unless the Pakistani society sees a drastic change which reaches out to every nook and cranny coupled with an improved law and order situation, I don't see how eliminating these laws will create any meaningful difference.....A few months back an Imam and his assistant got murdered right outside a mosque in NY, did any US laws stimulate those murders?

 

[Valar Dohaeris]

The fact that there exists a law in which mere statements cpuld get you arrested means people will misuse it a guy did exactly that in Islamabad to grab his uncle,s property and we all remember famous rimsha masih case

If tat is the case, than whole Pakistani Panel code must be abandoned. There must be no punishment for anything and no law because the situation of the law misuse is most pathetic state of affair in our country.