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Settle Kashmir and Get the Reward!!!

My solution:

sir ur super! pls post your address along with the map. many ppl are waiting for ur grand DARSHANAM (to meet with u)...what a solution you found..ppl were just waiting for this map ever since 1947!!!
Yeah this map will do
 
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I do not think Pakistan ever expected the insurgency to 'win Kashmir'. The whole point of the insurgency was to have a bargaining chip to get India to the negotiations table, since she chose to unilaterally walk away from her obligations under the UN and refused to settle the dispute.

General Zia was certainly not thinking only of that when he launched his beloved "Operation Topac".

The purpose was to wrest Kashmir always and later on it was used as a means to bleed India through the "thousand cut policy".

Operation Topac

Operation Topac

A presentation by General Zia in April 1988 in a ISI (Inter Service Intelligence Services, Pakistan's military intelligence agency)
Gentlemen, I have spoken on this subject at length before, therefore, I will knock out the details. As you know due to our pre-occupation in Afghanistan, in the service of Islam, I have not been able to put these plans before you earlier. Let there be no mistake, however, that our aim remains quite clear and firm-the liberation of Kashmir Valley - our Muslim Kashmiri brethren in the valley cannot be allowed to stay on with India for any length of time now. In the past we had opted for hamhanded military options and, therefare, failed. So, as I have mentioned before, we now keep our military option for the last moment as a coup de grace, if and when necessary. Our Kashmiri brethren in the valley, though with us in their hearts and minds are simple-minded folk and do not easily take to the type of warfare to which, say a Punjabi or an Afghan takes to naturally, against foreign domination. The Kashmiris however have a few qualities which we can exploit. First, his shrewdness and intelligence; second, his power to preservere under pressure; and the third, if I may say so, he is a master of political intrigue. If we provide him means through which he can best utilize these qualities- he will deliver the goods. Sheer brute force is in any case not needed in every type of warfare, especially so in the situation obtaining in the Kashmir valley, as I have explained earlier.

Here we must adopt those methods of combat which Kashmiri mind can grasp and cope with in other words, a coordinated use of moral and physical means other than military operations, which will destroy the will of the enemy, damage his political capacity and expose him to the world as an oppressor. This aim, Gentlemen, shall be achieved in the initial phases.

In the first phase, which may, if necessary last, a couple of years we will assist our Kashmiri brethren in getting hold of the power apparatus of the State by political subversion and intrigue. I would like to mention here that as no Government can survive in Occupied Kashmir unless it has tacit approval of Delhi, it would be unrealistic to believe that the MUF or any such organization can seize power through democratic or other means. In view of this, power must "apparently" remain with those whom New Delhi favors. We must therefore ensure that certain "favored politicians" from the ruling elite be selected who would colloborate with us in subverting all effective organs of the State. In brief, our plan for Kashmir, which will be code named as "Op Topac" will be as follows:
Phase 1
A low-level insurgency against the regime, so that it is under siege, but does not collapse as we would not yet want certral rule imposed by Delhi.

We plant our chosen men in all the key positions, they will subvert the police force, financial institutions, the communication net work and other important organizations.

We whip up anti-India feelings amongst the students and peasants, preferably on some religious issues, so that we can enlist their active support for rioting and anti-Government demonstrations.

Organize and train subversive elements and armed groups with capabilities, initially to deal with paramilitary forces located in the valley.

Adopt and develop means to cut off lines of communications between Jammu and Kashmir and within Kashmir and Ladakh by stealth, without recourse to force. The road over Zojila upto Kargil and the road over Khardungla should receive special attention.

In collaboration with Sikh extremists create chaos and terror in Jammu and divert attention from the valley at a critical juncture and discredit the regime even in the Hindu mind.

Establish virtual control in those parts of Kashmir Valley where the Indian army is not located or deployed. The Southern Kashmir Valley may be one such region.
Phase 2
Exert maximum pressure on Siachen, Kargil and Rajuri-Punch sectors to force the Indian army to deploy reserve formations outside the main Kashmir Valley.

Attack and destroy base depots and HQ located at Srinagar, Pattan, Kupwara, Baramulla and Chowkiwala by covert action at a given time.

Some Afghan Mujahideen by then settled in Azad Kashmir, will then infiltrate in the pockets with a view to extending areas of our influence. This aspect will require detailed and ingenious planning. The fiasco of Op Gibralter (1965) holds many lessons for us here.

Finally a Special Force under seleaed retired officers belonging to Azad Kashmir, with the hard core consisting of Afghans, will be ready to attack and destroy airfields, radio stations, block Banihal Tunnel and Kargil-Leh Highway.

At a certain stage of the operations Punjab and adjacent areas of Jammu and Kashmir will be put under maximum pressure internally by our offensive posture.
Phase 3
Detailed plans for the liberation of Kashmir Valley and establishment of an independent Islamic State in the third phase will follow.

We do not have much time. Maximum pressure must be exerted before the general elections in India and before the Indian Army reserves which are still bogged down in Sri Lanka become available. By the Grace of God, we have managed to accumulate large stocks of modern arms and ammunition from the US consignments intended for Afghan Mujahideen. This will help our Kashmiri brethren achieve their goals. Even if we create a kind of "Azad Kashmir" in some remote parts of Occupied Kashmir as a beginning, the next step may not be as difficult as it appears today. On the other hand, it should also be noted that a part of Indian Army, particularly the Infantry, will be well trained by now for such a situation due to their experience in North Eastern Region and more recently in Sri Lanka. But the situation in Kashmir will be somewhat different; more like the "Infetada" of Palestinians in towns, and on the pattern of Mujahideen in the countryside to attack hard targets. A period of chaos in the State is essential in the circumstances.

And what about our Chinese friends ? They can do no more than ensure that Indian forces deploys against them are not moved out; but this may be required only at the last or the third stage of our operations. Of course, if we are in a serious trouble, the Chinese and our other powerful friends shall come to our rescue one way or the other. They will ensure that if we do not win - we don't lose.

Finally, I wish to caution you once more that it will be disastrous to believe that we can take on India in a straight contest. We must therefore, be careful and maintain a low military profile so that the Indians do not find an excuse to preempt us, by attacking at a time and at a point of their own choosing at least before Phase I and 2 of the Operation are over. We must pause and assess the course of operations after each phase, as our strategy and plans may require drastic changes in certain circumstances. I need not emphasize any further that a deliberate and objective assessment of the situation must be ensured at each stage, otherwise a stalemate will follow with no good for Pakistan.

Pakistan Paindabad.
 
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Ain't happening your solution which this map is drawn all so wrong lol :disagree: hence funny to see most of the kashmir u still talking to India WONT HAPPEN !! :crazy:

You are entitled to your views, but this map is drawn on some basis. See 50% of Jammu & Kashmir is Ladakh which is 90% Buddhist, so no way they will ever join free kashmir/pakistan. Jammu region is all where Hindus are in a majority. So if you hold a referendum which you keep harping upon, I can guarantee you that Jammu and Ladakh will remain with India. That leaves the muslim majority area of kashmir and northern regions, its debatable whether they want to join Pakistan or be independent but in my experience talking to a few kashmiris most want to be azad and not join Pakistan. :coffee:

A Kashmiri's point of view:
The Kashmir Blog: Independence: A viable option
 
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My solution:

Either the whole region goes independent, or none of it.

What makes you think Muslim people of Baltistan, Kargil and Ladakh have any wish to join India?

There is simply no point making assumptions. Regional Plebiscites, or even District wise Plebiscites need to be held.

That is the only fair solution.
 
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You are entitled to your views, but this map is drawn on some basis. See 50% of Jammu & Kashmir is Ladakh which is 90% Buddhist, so no way they will ever join free kashmir/pakistan. Jammu region is all where Hindus are in a majority. So if you hold a referendum which you keep harping upon, I can guarantee you that Jammu and Ladakh will remain with India. That leaves the muslim majority area of kashmir and northern regions, its debatable whether they want to join Pakistan or be independent but in my experience talking to a few kashmiris most want to be azad and not join Pakistan. :coffee:

A Kashmiri's point of view:
The Kashmir Blog: Independence: A viable option

You are wrong here:

Kargil district used to be part of Baltistan. Both regions are Muslim majority. Ladakh is said to be 50% Muslim.

But like I said, there is no point arguing about this. The only way of making sure is to hold the referendum.
 
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^^ The link is there above the article this time. For a change.
 
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Either the whole region goes independent, or none of it.

What makes you think Muslim people of Baltistan, Kargil and Ladakh have any wish to join India?

There is simply no point making assumptions. Regional Plebiscites, or even District wise Plebiscites need to be held.

That is the only fair solution.

Exactly my point, a regional plebiscite needs to be done which will result in my map. You can go further and conduct even sub-division wise pleblicite. Maybe then Baltistan and Kargil will go to Independent Kashmir/Pakistan. Ladakh will always vote with India. Anyways what I fail to understand is your point 'Either the whole region goes independent, or none of it.' Kindly enlighten us on this statement... :angel:
 
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Exactly my point, a regional plebiscite needs to be done which will result in my map. You can go further and conduct even sub-division wise pleblicite. Maybe then Baltistan and Kargil will go to Independent Kashmir/Pakistan. Ladakh will always vote with India. Anyways what I fail to understand is your point 'Either the whole region goes independent, or none of it.' Kindly enlighten us on this statement... :angel:

Well its a good thing we agree on the UN plebiscite. That would be the democratic way.

The whole point of the plebiscite would be not to assume what people want, and end up treating them unfairly. So I wont contribute to the assumptions of who Ladakhis would vote for. Let the votes do the talking.

Regarding my comment: It is not economically feasible for only Kashmir valley to gain independence. If that state wants independence, they need all the regions to gain independence together so a strong country can be formed.
A tiny area like Kashmir valley cant be made into a nation while landlocked by 4 nuclear powers. Its unlikely to happen because of religious tensions between the people.

The other reason would be the lesson we supposedly learnt from history. When Pakistan and India gained independence, they hated the guts of each other. We cant add another nation to this childish game, especially not one that is so vulnerable as Kashmir.

Besides, the UN only gave them two options of India or Pakistan.

However if there is a popular demand by the whole province to want independence, then it would be foolish to hold on to them since this is a matter still unresolved from the colonial era.
 
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One question to all my Pakistani brothers: there are 150 million muslims in India out of which only 6-7 million are in Kashmir. We consider all 150 million to be our brothers. So how come you care about only this small portion. If pakistan was built for all the muslims of British raj you have failed in your purpose. Pakistan's case is built on a self serving land grabbing attitude. Even if kashmir was independent I'm sure you would attack and conquer it. I also must say that not treating other religions with respect is the cause for trouble. Only Turkey is one country where all religions are treated with respect. Why should a Hindu/Christian in Pakistan be subject to sharia law? :coffee:
 
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One question to all my Pakistani brothers: there are 150 million muslims in India out of which only 6-7 million are in Kashmir. We consider all 150 million to be our brothers. So how come you care about only this small portion. If pakistan was built for all the muslims of British raj you have failed in your purpose. Pakistan's case is built on a self serving land grabbing attitude. Even if kashmir was independent I'm sure you would attack and conquer it. I also must say that not treating other religions with respect is the cause for trouble. Only Turkey is one country where all religions are treated with respect. Why should a Hindu/Christian in Pakistan be subject to sharia law? :coffee:

First of my friend regardless of religon u are all are welcome here ok first things if kashmir was independent Pak will attack it and conquer it lol u are in lalaland my friend so call bro! if anything is your so call mother land India who is killing people there everyday and trying to gain land and not allowing people there to breathe never less live ! again it takes two hands clap iam sure Pak has its on interest in region hence u state Pak has prob's in within the country with hindus,christian or u forgot let me add parsi and sikh's as well they are all happy and love there country Pakistan unlike stories i hear about muslims in India so plzz u are passing the line stay in it & we all can have a peaceful time here think before u speak ! stop this damn rubish!! wana show hate go somewhere else :angry: :tsk:
 
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Well its a good thing we agree on the UN plebiscite. That would be the democratic way.

The whole point of the plebiscite would be not to assume what people want, and end up treating them unfairly. So I wont contribute to the assumptions of who Ladakhis would vote for. Let the votes do the talking.

Regarding my comment: It is not economically feasible for only Kashmir valley to gain independence. If that state wants independence, they need all the regions to gain independence together so a strong country can be formed.
A tiny area like Kashmir valley cant be made into a nation while landlocked by 4 nuclear powers. Its unlikely to happen because of religious tensions between the people.

The other reason would be the lesson we supposedly learnt from history. When Pakistan and India gained independence, they hated the guts of each other. We cant add another nation to this childish game, especially not one that is so vulnerable as Kashmir.

Besides, the UN only gave them two options of India or Pakistan.

However if there is a popular demand by the whole province to want independence, then it would be foolish to hold on to them since this is a matter still unresolved from the colonial era.

I thought the point of this thread was to think of solutions not repeat the statements that our politicians give. What is this BS about Kashmir valley being too small. There are dozens of countries smaller than it.
Also what you are saying is that either whole of it becomes independent or we maintain the status quo? See practically neither is Pakistan going to give any area under its control to India and vice-versa. They may just consider giving it Independence as this way the other country doesn't gain.
 
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First of my friend regardless of religon u are all are welcome here ok first things if kashmir was independent Pak will attack it and conquer it lol u are in lalaland my friend so call bro! if anything is your so call mother land India who is killing people there everyday and trying to gain land and not allowing people there to breathe never less live ! again it takes two hands clap iam sure Pak has its on interest in region hence u state Pak has prob's in within the country with hindus,christian or u forgot let me add parsi and sikh's as well they are all happy and love there country Pakistan unlike stories i hear about muslims in India so plzz u are passing the line stay in it & we all can have a peaceful time here think before u speak ! stop this damn rubish!! wana show hate go somewhere else :angry: :tsk:

I'm just trying to find a solution! I think if you read all my posts above it, i'm more open minded than most. Sorry for hurting your feelings. What i'm trying to understand is why should countries be identified by religion? And you answered it yourself, hindus in pakistan love their country, can't you accept that muslims in india may love their country? If you live in the USA, don't you love the USA. I feel Kashmir valley should be independent, because they want to be, thats all. Pakistanis should not pretend that they speak for all muslims of the subcontinent!
 
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I thought the point of this thread was to think of solutions not repeat the statements that our politicians give. What is this BS about Kashmir valley being too small. There are dozens of countries smaller than it.
Also what you are saying is that either whole of it becomes independent or we maintain the status quo? See practically neither is Pakistan going to give any area under its control to India and vice-versa. They may just consider giving it Independence as this way the other country doesn't gain.

This is not about which countries gain. This is about the will of the people of Kashmir.
I do realise that the Kashmir plebiscite would be very uncertain for India because of the majority Muslim population, but this is the democratic way of life. And since we Pakistanis love everything democracy, we wouldn't settle for anything less than democracy when dealing with the worlds biggest democracy.

After all we are the worlds 5th biggest democracy and we have a reputation to uphold.

I would suggest you look up Pakistans democratic record in a little case called Junagadh. This case involved a Muslim ruler with a Hindu majority state. The ruler voted to accede to Pakistan, India caused trouble, and a plebiscite happened in this case because Pakistan could not bear the thought of the Hindu people of Junagadh losing their right to self determination.

There you have it.
 
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This is not about which countries gain. This is about the will of the people of Kashmir.
I do realise that the Kashmir plebiscite would be very uncertain for India because of the majority Muslim population, but this is the democratic way of life. And since we Pakistanis love everything democracy, we wouldn't settle for anything less than democracy when dealing with the worlds biggest democracy.

After all we are the worlds 5th biggest democracy and we have a reputation to uphold.

I would suggest you look up Pakistans democratic record in a little case called Junagadh. This case involved a Muslim ruler with a Hindu majority state. The ruler voted to accede to Pakistan, India caused trouble, and a plebiscite happened in this case because Pakistan could not bear the thought of the Hindu people of Junagadh losing their right to self determination.

There you have it.

Let me ask you few counter questions;

1. Was there any plebiscite in India when Pakistan was created ?
2. If muslims could rule majority Hindu nation for 100s of years, why can't it be other way?
3. As per one of pakistani site (http://www.geocities.com/pak_history/muhajirs.html) majority of muslims came to India in search of jobs. As per this site very few are the local converts. If that is the case, why shouldn't these people put claims in their own original countries ?

We can go on putting claims and counter claims. Its not going to help till we come out with a solution which is acceptable to all sides and is implementable.

RK
 
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