Security dilemma in informal alliance politics: The case of dispute in South China Sea

[Zero_wing]

You're just ranting. I'm tired of arguing with an idiot.

Try reading Article 298. China is within its rights. UNCLOS clearly has no jurisdiction. It's a stupid UN organization that is trying to expand its powers beyond the UNCLOS treaty.

The United States, Russia, and China do not recognize UNCLOS jurisdiction regarding territorial matters. UNCLOS is NOT international law.

You just can't convince us of UNCLOS with chinese character if your done with propaganda do something like build that golden statue of mao

 

[Martian2]

You just can't convince us of UNCLOS with chinese character if your done with propaganda do something like build that golden statue of mao

You Viets are retarded.

Article 298 is very explicit.

China followed the procedure in Article 298.

UNCLOS should learn to read English. Since they can't, China declared that UNCLOS has no jurisdiction. That's the end of the issue.

Reference: China rejects U.N. arbitration on disputed South China Sea - The Hindu

 

[Zero_wing]

You're quoting a bunch of garbage that has nothing to do with Article 298. Learn to read.

because its bs interpretation of article past cut line of the said article what i posted was from the UN website itself so who's doing what again if you done with tantrums go ask a non chinese lawyer about it

 

[Martian2]

because its bs interpretation of article past cut line of the said article what i posted was from the UN website itself so who's doing what again if you done with tantrums go ask a non chinese lawyer about it

You posted a bunch of introductory crap to UNCLOS that had no bearing on Article 298 (regarding exemption from UNCLOS jurisdiction).

China would never have signed UNCLOS if China had known that UNCLOS would not honor Article 298.

 

[Zero_wing]

You Viets are retarded.

Article 298 is very explicit.

China followed the procedure in Article 298.

UNCLOS should learn to read English. Since they can't, China declared that UNCLOS has no jurisdiction. That's the end of the issue.

See that your problem because only ITCLOS has that power to declare jurisdiction on UNCLOS you're the one does not know what your country's place is on the issue its just poor reading and copy paste post you made again a party can not deny the conditions of treaty it signed. china can deny participation which what that article gives to sovereign states but as part of the treaty any cases filed before ITCLOS can proceed without china input and it will be legally binding so in short china is a none participant china has no right to declare anything with concerns to UNCLOS without ITCLOS not unless it becomes a UN security council issue which has not been deferred yet.

 

[CAPRICORN-88]

You Viets are retarded.

Article 298 is very explicit.

China followed the procedure in Article 298.

UNCLOS should learn to read English. Since they can't, China declared that UNCLOS has no jurisdiction. That's the end of the issue.

Reference: China rejects U.N. arbitration on disputed South China Sea - The Hindu

If I am not mistaken Zero Wing is an Indian.

Both Philippines and PRC signed the UNCLOS with an exemption clause included on historical territories.

USA which neither sign or ratify the UNCLOS has NO business in the SCS.

IMO you are wasting your time with him. He will not or cannot understand what we are all trying to say.

 

[Zero_wing]

If I am not mistaken Zero Wing is an Indian.

Both Philippines and PRC signed the UNCLOS with an exemption clause included on historical territories.

USA which neither sign or ratify the UNCLOS has NO business in the SCS.

IMO you are wasting your time with him. He will not or cannot understand what we are all trying to say.

Wow you know i post in tagalog before right? second who cares and lastly all nations have vested interest in the area lastly historical territories is weak claim if you have no judicial control over said territory and its impossible if its whole sea as well

 

[Nike]

@TaiShang

there is no informal alliance between Philippine and USA, as Philippine is one of US non-Nato allies and being one to hold the title since the independence of Philippine.

 

[CAPRICORN-88]

It is amusing that Philippines in its enthusiasm to file its legal case has yet to submit an outer continental shelf claim in the South China Sea to the UN Commission.

A case in point on China justification and argument, in March 2005, the Arroyo administration in the Philippines and China and Vietnam agreed to jointly explore potential energy resources in the South China Sea.

But in 2008, the Philippines, not China, rescinded the agreement and has since proceeded to unilaterally issue exploration licenses to a disputed section of the joint study area.

So despite whatever the Philippine argument is all about, China has demonstrated that all good faith avenues to peaceful dispute resolution, including provisional arrangements of a practical nature "UNCLOS Articles 74 and 83", have not been exhausted.

A quick conclusion, it is putting the cart in front of the horse.

 

[Zero_wing]

It is amusing that Philippines in its enthusiasm to file its legal case has yet to submit an outer continental shelf claim in the South China Sea to the UN Commission.

A case in point on China justification and argument, in March 2005, the Arroyo administration in the Philippines and China and Vietnam agreed to jointly explore potential energy resources in the South China Sea.

But in 2008, the Philippines, not China, rescinded the agreement and has since proceeded to unilaterally issue exploration licenses to a disputed section of the joint study area.

So despite whatever the Philippine argument is all about, China has demonstrated that all good faith avenues to peaceful dispute resolution, including provisional arrangements of a practical nature "UNCLOS Articles 74 and 83", have not been exhausted.

A quick conclusion, it is putting the cart in front of the horse.

Ya the problem is chinese aggression china violated that trust by agreeing to the 2002 declaration and again china is not archipelagic state to use continental shelf because china is not archipelagic state so the Philippines is left with no more options we been talking to china since 1995 and its fruitless china agrees on paper but continue to violate all the accords but doing the opposite so we can say all the means have been exhausted so we file a case now the burden of proof if the man made islands you made are legal.

 

[Nike]

Ya the problem is chinese aggression china violated that trust by agreeing to the 2002 declaration and again china is not archipelagic state to use continental shelf because china is not archipelagic state so the Philippines is left with no more options we been talking to china since 1995 and its fruitless china agrees on paper but continue to violate all the accords but doing the opposite so we can say all the means have been exhausted so we file a case now the burden of proof if the man made islands you made are legal.

actually the origin of problem is actually Philippine inability to exert her claims and control for whatever they had in their claims and so until the foundation of problems is formally addressed adequately, i think Philippine will lose more in SCS debacle.

Indonesia itself as one of major proponent of UNCLOS rarely see UNCLOS as means to protect our National interest and hoping other countries to acknowledge our water boundaries. Instead a strong military, economy and well crafted and skilled diplomacy it is. UNCLOS is best served as foundation to laying our claims, and to dictate the claims you need presence, continuous one.

 

[CAPRICORN-88]

Ya the problem is chinese aggression china violated that trust by agreeing to the 2002 declaration and again china is not archipelagic state to use continental shelf because china is not archipelagic state so the Philippines is left with no more options we been talking to china since 1995 and its fruitless china agrees on paper but continue to violate all the accords but doing the opposite so we can say all the means have been exhausted so we file a case now the burden of proof if the man made islands you made are legal.

LOL I can understand why the other members are so frustrate reasoning with you. You either truly lacks the reading comprehension skill or you are just merely a manipulative propagandist.

For example: You blame the China for their aggression. Yet from what I read, it was the Philippines Navy which torn down the decades old milestone set up by the China and it was also the Philippines Navy that drove Chinese fishermen from these traditional storm shelters that triggered off the Chinese responses.

Read again what I wrote before you simply penned in a reply. I won't be wasting my time with you.

Anyway the domestic "Baseline Act" passed by Philippines in 2009 in order for Philippines to claim these shoals and islands (otherwise Philippines run afoul of its own domestic laws) pissed off the rest of the other claimant states in the SCS and according to legal experts outside of Philippines is against international law.

 

[Keel]

If I am not mistaken Zero Wing is an Indian.

Both Philippines and PRC signed the UNCLOS with an exemption clause included on historical territories.

USA which neither sign or ratify the UNCLOS has NO business in the SCS.

IMO you are wasting your time with him. He will not or cannot understand what we are all trying to say.

Good observation and agree
@Martian2 may have to consider leaving trolls alone instead of wasting your time on them

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I dont know why a key player is missing from the OP

Japan Gets Involved In South China Sea Territorial Dispute: Tokyo Offers Maritime Support To Philippines, Vietnam
BY MICHELLE FLORCRUZ @MFLORCRUZ ON 03/11/15 AT 5:04 PM

A Chinese coast guard vessel patrols near the BRP Sierra Madre, a marooned transport ship employed as a military outpost by Filipino marines, in the disputed Second Thomas Shoal, part of the Spratly Islands in the South China Sea, on March 30, 2014.PHOTO: REUTERS/ERIK DE CASTRO



China and several Southeast Asian nations are currently embroiled in a territorial and maritime dispute in the South China Sea over an area that includes a cluster of resource-rich islands and important trade routes. As China’s presence in the area becomes harder to ignore, Japan has quietly begun forging security ties with Chinese geopolitical adversaries.

According to a report by Reuters, Tokyo will be involved in joint training exercises with Vietnam and the naval military of the Philippines. The two countries have been China’s biggest challengers when it comes to vocalizing their own sovereignty claims in the region. Tokyo has reportedly offered 10 coast guard boats in the area ahead of what will be the first joint naval exercises between the Philippines and Japan in upcoming months. The two countries forged a security pact in Tokyo in January that also confirmed regular meetings between vice ministers regarding defense. Additionally, Tokyo military medical professionals have offered help in advising Vietnamese submariners on avoiding decompression sickness.

Though Japan doesn’t have a vested interest in the South China Sea, it does have experience in dealing with China when it comes to disputed territories. China and Japan both lay claim to a cluster of islands in the East China Sea known as the Diaoyu (Chinese) and the Senkaku (Japanese). The islands have been a point of contention between the two governments and the problem has proliferated to also become a dispute between citizens. Though it seems like China is taking on most of Asia when it comes to its territorial claims, China’s military prowess in the region outnumbers most of its neighbors by a long shot.

Japan’s increased involvement reflects calls made by U.S. military officials earlier this year. “I think allies, partners and friends in the region will look to the Japanese more and more as a stabilizing function,” Adm. Robert Thomas, commander of the Seventh Fleet and the top U.S. naval officer in Asia, said in a separate Reuters report. “In the South China Sea, frankly, the Chinese fishing fleet, the Chinese coast guard and the [navy] overmatch their neighbors.”

China’s control over the area, in the form of dredging to erect a man-made island in the middle of the disputed Spratly Islands, overshadows attempts made by the Philippines to go to international courts in The Hague, Netherlands, to settle the dispute.

Japan’s newly introduced involvement has raised concern for China. A spokesman for China’s Foreign Ministry reportedly said that ministry officials hoped Japan would “speak and act cautiously” in regard to involving itself in South China Sea claims. China has steadfastly condemned the involvement of third-party allies, such as the United States, or groups in facilitating or weighing in on the subject.

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Tokyo To Challenge China on Fiery Cross Reef
By Paul Kallender-Umezu2:02 p.m. EDT July 19, 2015

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TOKYO — In what may turn out to be the first step in a dangerous game of chicken, Japan's upcoming annual defense white paper will accuse China of belligerency in its dealings with neighbors as it becomes clear that China is laying the foundations of a military base on Fiery Cross Reef, one of seven artificial islands China has created in the disputed Spratly Islands.

In the outline of the white paper, to be released in late July, on top of the usual statements citing North Korea's nuclear and missile development as issues of concern, the paper will directly call China's reclamation work on the Spratlys, "high handed."

In the last 18 months, China has added about 800 hectares to seven reefs in the area, including an airstrip on Fiery Cross Reef, along with the makings of a military radar base. All of this is seen as a significant escalation in a dispute over the islands, part of a huge swath of territory in the South China Sea (SCS) over which China claims undisputed sovereignty.

While the Fiery Cross Reef development has been condemned by the US, Japan's accusation raises the ante and more directly challenges perceived Chinese expansionism, supporting the Philippines, Malaysia and Vietnam in their dispute over China's claims on the islands.

Japan's assertiveness is relatively new and bold, and comes just as the Japanese Diet this month is passing legislation that will enable the country to engage in collective self-defense (CSD) for the first time in its postwar history. The statement also builds on an assertion made in last year's defense white paper that accused China of attempting to change the status quo in the region through force.

Japan's latest assertion led to predictably robust responses from Beijing, with Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Hua Chunying accusing Japan of trying to "smear China to create tensions in the region."

"The Chinese construction on the reefs has nothing to do with Japan's security situation. Japan is neither a claimer state or a nearby country in the South China Sea area. It's deliberate show of unnecessary worrying shows that Japan wants to be involved in the SCS affair," said Zhuang Jianzhong, vice director of the Center for National Strategy Studies at Shanghai Jiao Tong University.

"China's reconstruction on the reefs has its historic and current need for various purposes and Japan has no right to criticize others while Japan deploys warships and increases patrolling radius over SCS areas to show its ambitious aim. History will show that China will be non-aggressive and no threat to other Asian countries while it will remain firm in defending its sovereignty and legitimate right," he said.

"Basically, this does affect Japan," said Robert Dujarrac, director of the Institute of Contemporary Asian Studies at Temple University Japan.

"Japan relies on the US for its defense; PRC has challenged the territorial status quo in East China Sea, now pushing the boundaries in SCS. It is a US-China issue but Japan is part of the US equation, so it cannot always stand aside. Moreover, Japan's comments and potential activities in the SCS have been very low key until now," he said

Behind the tit-for-tat, Japan's direct approach probably signifies a deeper shift in Japanese perceptions, attitudes and responses to its position in Asia, analysts said.

"My sense is there has been a tangible surge in Japanese interest and activity in the South China Sea in recent months," said Jeff Smith, director of Asian Security Programs at the American Foreign Policy Council.

This new assertiveness is being backed up by clearer signaling that the Japan Self-Defense Force (SDF) is ready to fight. The SDF has become much more active in the region. For example, the SDF will participate in joint drills with the US and Australia on Australian soil for the first time later this year, and Japan will participate in US-India Malabar exercises this year.

In addition, Japan and the Philippines are reportedly negotiating a deal granting the SDF access to Philippine military bases, and Tokyo appears to be considering a proposal to join the United States in surveillance patrols in the SCS.

On the defense front, Tokyo is negotiating to sell submarines to Australia and Shinmaywa amphibious planes to India.

"These [moves] all strike me as very bold and very significant changes to a Japanese foreign policy that appears to be going all-in on a hedging strategy toward China," Smith said.

Since many other countries, particularly Vietnam and the Philippines, have far more to worry about than Japan, the new assertiveness may signal that Japan is more interested in showing itself as a reliable ally in the region, Smith said.

"I think at this point, Tokyo is less interested in improving ties with Beijing than fostering deeper strategic collaboration with the United States and with other countries in the South China Sea to hedge against China. For better or worse, [Prime Minister Shinzo] Abe seems to have concluded that diplomacy is unlikely to resolve the most potent disagreements [like the Senkaku/Diaoyu dispute], and that this rising tide of Chinese assertiveness is a long-term, secular trend, rather than a temporary trend that can be mitigated by diplomacy," Smith said.

Japan seems increasingly willing to signal its support to other regional actors and their positions on the South China Sea.

"This is important not just because Japan has a direct interest in preventing China from gaining a monopoly over the South China Sea, but perhaps Tokyo assumes this will also make others more likely to support its own position on the Senkaku/Diaoyu islands if and when tensions flare there or just more broadly for the legitimacy reasons in the international court of public opinion."

Jun Okumura, visiting scholar at the Meiji Institute for Global Affairs, said Japan's actions were part of a "new normal" attitude being adopted by Japan in the face of the reality of its security dilemmas. China as a rising power is looking to flex its muscles, and Japan as an announced preserver of the status quo, is, likewise, behaving normally in calling China on this, he said

"There is a school of thought that you have to speak up in the war of words with China in order to be taken seriously. You know what would be really escalatory? Regular patrols in the South China Sea. More visits by Japanese naval vessels and more joint exercises will no doubt be annoying to the Chinese authorities, but that will not lead to anything serious," Okumura said.

"If Japan has chosen to insert new language of China being 'belligerent' in the defense white paper then it is quite a step up in language from the previous, more guarded cause for 'concern' type of expressions in the past about Chinese military movements," said Christopher Hughes, professor of international politics and Japanese studies at the UK's University of Warwick.

"Overall, this would seem to be another registration of Japanese interest in the South China Sea, demonstrated most recently by the JSDF's participation in exercises with the Philippines military. Japan's security interests clearly extend to the South China Sea and this may be a region that Japan could become drawn into under a collective self-defense type scenario to support the US efforts to preserve the freedom of navigation and thus Japan's own security," Hughes said.

Wendell Minnick contributed to this report from Taipei.


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PRESIDENT AQUINO’S VISIT TO TOKYO BOOSTS PHILIPPINE-JAPAN PARTNERSHIP IN MARITIME SECURITY


Renato Cruz de Castro

June 10, 2015

Japan, Philippines

President Benigo Aquino III’s first state visit to Japan reflected the increasing tempo of security cooperation between these two U.S. allies that are facing a common security challenge in their maritime domains—China’s maritime expansion. President Aquino met Prime Minister Shinzo Abe to discuss how they can strengthen their countries’ strategic partnership in the face of China’s aggressive behavior in the South China Sea. In the first day of his visit, President Aquino signed a contract with Japan United Corporation for the acquisition of ten patrol vessels for the Philippine Coast Guard (PCG). Funded by the Japan International Cooperation (JICA), the Japan United Cooperation will build ten 40-meter long multirole response vessels (MRRVs) that will be delivered to the PCG starting 2016. With their top speed of 16 knots and a range of 1,500 miles, the MRRVs will be deployed in the Coast Guard Districts across the country including in the island of Palawan—the country’s most western part that faces the South China Sea. The deal also includes the supply of standard spare parts and tools, crew training, ocean transportation, and marine insurance.

The following day, President Aquino and Prime Minister Abe signed a Joint Declaration. The five-page document provides a strategic vision to the two countries’ evolving security partnership. It also expressed their commitment to ensure maritime safety and security, including in the South China Sea, and also their serious concern on unilateral actions to change the status quo in the South China Sea including large-scale reclamation and building of outposts. This is directed against China’s constructions of artificial islands in the South China Sea.

The declaration includes a detailed action plan for strengthening the two countries’ strategic partnership. Among the areas of cooperation are information sharing on security environment and challenges, information exchange and policy coordination on respective security policies, cooperation on maritime security, including maritime domain awareness, humanitarian assistance, and most significantly, the provision of defense equipment and technology cooperation. A significant aspect of document is the two countries’ decision to negotiate an agreement for the transfer of Japanese defense equipment and technology to the Philippines. In January 2015, Philippine Defense Secretary Voltaire Gazmin made a three-day visit in Japan and handed to his Japanese counter-part, Gen Nakatani a wish-list for the AFP that included P-3C Orion patrol aircraft and other radar related equipment.

On June 5, President Aquino announced that the two countries would soon start talks on a Status of Forces Agreement (SOFA) that would allow the Japanese Self-Defense Force (SDF) access to Philippine military bases. In a press briefing in Tokyo, President Aquino revealed that Japanese and Filipino officials discussed the possibility of SOFA since both countries have boosted their security relationship significantly over the past few years. In early June 2013, Secretary Gazmin raised the possibility of allowing ships and planes of the Japanese Maritime Self-Defense Force (MSDF) access to the former American military facilities in the Philippines if Tokyo is interested in negotiating and signing an access agreement with Manila. The possible SDF use of Philippine bases on a limited and rotational basis would be useful for Japan as it actively pursues a policy of Pro-Active Contribution to Peace in East Asia. With refuelling and basing facilities in the Philippines, units of the Air Self-Defense Force (ASDF) and MSDF can conduct joint patrols with their American counter-parts for a longer period of time and over a larger area of the South China Sea.

Prior to President Aquino’s visit to Tokyo, the Philippine Navy and the MSDF held a joint naval exercise in the South China Sea as an indication of the two country’s growing security partnership. In early May 2015, two MSDF destroyers—the JS Harusame and Amigri–conducted a training exercise with a Philippine Navy (PN) frigate BRP Ramon Alcaraz on communication strategies to respond to “unplanned encounters at sea.” Known as the Code for Unplanned Encounters at Sea (CUES), the MSDF-PN joint naval exercise was part of a security agreement signed by Tokyo and Manila in January 2015 aimed at tightening security cooperation between the two U.S. allies. Security analysts noted the significance of this low-key naval exercise as this signalled Japan’s growing interest in the region in the light of Tokyo’s plan to assist the U.S. 7th Fleet in patrolling the South China Sea.

President Aquino’s Visit to Tokyo Boosts Philippine-Japan Partnership in Maritime Security | Asia Maritime Transparency Initiative
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[Zero_wing]

actually the origin of problem is actually Philippine inability to exert her claims and control for whatever they had in their claims and so until the foundation of problems is formally addressed adequately, i think Philippine will lose more in SCS debacle.

Indonesia itself as one of major proponent of UNCLOS rarely see UNCLOS as means to protect our National interest and hoping other countries to acknowledge our water boundaries. Instead a strong military, economy and well crafted and skilled diplomacy it is. UNCLOS is best served as foundation to laying our claims, and to dictate the claims you need presence, continuous one.

One part is right about you but again we not matching china strength we are following our plan for diplomatic offensive so far its been working well we have gain support but that being said we are also slowly rearming ourselves and improving our forces its a slow one but its better than nothing

 

[TaiShang]

its binding treaty china has no right to deny or be exempted to anything that's why it's called a treaty its contract between states as party china is binding to it and as part of UN security council its duty bond to enforce it not to its advantage but to enforce it for the preservation of peace.

First article would be in china favor if china has Judicial rule over the area and second china is not archipelagic state most of those provisions are for archipelagic states

Vietnam also put an exemption when it signed the UNCLOS. So did the Philippines.