Secularism is not against Islam

[Adux]

Muslims ruled over india for about a 1000 years, tell how many of hindus did they kill dring that time??? Todayt he thing is that muslim world isnt what it usd to be, most of us are uneducated and only know how to fire a ak-47. Hope you get my point.

As for your last comment. Yes God infact is like a mother, infact God is more mercifull then a mother, and the mercy of a mother for her childern is infinate, so how the mercy of GOD. But because of that, we thak our mother by listening to her and obeying her. Same thing for God, we thank him for what he gave and and ask for forgivness

Good Post thunder

i agree with you in most part
But Muslim ruled over a part of India and it was one of the bloodiest, Figure out how the mountain range Hindukush got its name. Muslims were better off when they were the pillars of knowledge and mathematics and the christains were the barbarians, now sadly the roles are reversed

 

[Awesome]

Nobody is arguing that religion defines secularism. Secularism is not anti-Religion, its just adopting a posture of not involving it in governance.

India is used as an example because we are all too used to the "phata dhol" (broken record) statements about India being secular. You being an Indian I have to make sure you even know what secularism is. Indians have a bizarre definition of what is secularism.

 

[Adux]

Nobody is arguing that religion defines secularism. Secularism is not anti-Religion, its just adopting a posture of not involving it in governance.

India is used as an example because we are all too used to the "phata dhol" (broken record) statements about India being secular. You being an Indian I have to make sure you even know what secularism is. Indians have a bizarre definition of what is secularism.

India is a secular country by its consitution, and i am quite a secular person.
But our implementation of the secular values hasnt been all around on the same level as well not to the true spirit of the consititution. It is cuz of Dirty votebank politics. But things are getting better. And I suggest you look into why Hindu populaiton came down to 3% from 11% from independence

 

[Thunder]

Good Post thunder

i agree with you in most part
But Muslim ruled over a part of India and it was one of the bloodiest, Figure out how the mountain range Hindukush got its name. Muslims were better off when they were the pillars of knowledge and mathematics and the christains were the barbarians, now sadly the roles are reversed

Agreed, but also remember, how many hindus were killed for praticing their religon?? That's what iam talking about.

2nd part i agree, the roles have changed, but they will change again, because the time are also changing.

As for the topic, well secularism roughly means not being spriutiul, so techincally right now we all are secular since we are reading this and not praying. But while reading this we are gaining knowledge, islam says gain knowledge till the day you die, so techeniclly muslim while reasing this are'nt really secular.

 

[[R]e[b]e[L]]

And I am not a Muslim, and i hate Fundo Islamic/Christian/Hindu States, I rather be were everyone is treated equal, The very fact Muslims cant accept seculatism, which means letting other people be, is the reason they have so many problems around the world, It is always MY WAY OF THE HIGHWAY i. Why should I follow anyother religion's dikats. IS my religion not good enough, Or have people forgotten the value of respecting in other people's belief.
God is not a School teacher with a stick, I see him like a mother with compassion, who forgives his child for his mistakes and values his child not when he prays 5 times or go to the church or temple, but when he loves a fellow human being. I God has a greater heart than us petty human beings and he doesnt hold grudges, he is greater person than that

Islamisim for a non-Islamic person is as destructive as you oput capitalism/communism etc

I bid adios from the thread

What an ignorant and arrogant post, with a complete lack of knowledge. Your basically saying for a Muslim to follow his/her true Islamic law, he is an intolerant and bad person. What an idiotic point you have. How arrogant. You know absoloutly nothing about Islam, you only know how to insult it and its followers. This is the secular type of mentality i am on about. People who judge without even knowing anything. God loves those who obey him, are you trying to also say God loves satan when you mentioned he loves everyone? The capitalist regime which is your secular heaven has its foundations based on greed and exploitation of the poorer for the rich full of selfishness. It is jam packed full of corruption and lacks many morals. And in order for it to exist, other people must suffer. No one needs to suffer for shariah law to exist...

 

[Adux]

What an ignorant and arrogant post, with a complete lack of knowledge. Your basically saying for a Muslim to follow his/her true Islamic law, he is an intolerant and bad person. What an idiotic point you have. How arrogant. You know absoloutly nothing about Islam, you only know how to insult it and its followers. This is the secular type of mentality i am on about. People who judge without even knowing anything. God loves those who obey him, are you trying to also say God loves satan when you mentioned he loves everyone? The capitalist regime which is your secular heaven has its foundations based on greed and exploitation of the poorer for the rich full of selfishness. It is jam packed full of corruption and lacks many morals. And in order for it to exist, other people must suffer. No one needs to suffer for shariah law to exist...

Is your religion a Super-Uber religion that every one in the world should know about, exactly why you have so many problems, MY WAY OF THE HIGHWAY, For you its always, Every Non-Muslim can live, but under the relam of Islamic priciples, well tough luck, you aint going to get it. You follow your religion, dont come and tell me how to follow mine
Saudi UAe and Pakistan with its Russian gals and Mujra gals are pure as water..give me a break, I have had it with people like you!!!!Why the hell should i know about Islam or anyother religion; Practice it presonally and at your home and dont tell me how to do mine, again. You try to subjugate people, they will hit back and they will hitback hard. God doesnt want you to obey him, you fool; He want you to understand why he created you, You can ask satan or god wether he loves satan when you both of them, all i can say is GOd loves all his creations

 

[Keysersoze]

I think this thread needs to chill out.......

 

[A.Rahman]

Saudi UAe and Pakistan with its Russian gals and Mujra gals are pure as water..give me a break, I have had it with people like you!!!!Why the hell should i know about Islam or another religion; Practice it personally and at your home and dont tell me how to do mine, again. You try to subjugate people, they will hit back and they will hitback hard. God doesnt want you to obey him, you fool; He want you to understand why he created you, You can ask satan or god wether he loves satan when you both of them, all i can say is GOd loves all his creations

Wow you must be tough on those Jehovah's witness
man they are annoying, can you believe it, one of them woke me up at 9 in the morning, & it was sunday!.

Religion cant be forced, the best they can do it tell you about their religion, and if you dont want to hear them :say "I am kind of busy right now, Good day"..... and lock you door.

Its our duty to tell people about Islam, If you don't like to hear about it then you can choose to ignore it.

If god wanted someone to worship him 24/7 with no will, he would have created armies of zombies.

He gave humans "free-will", therefore its our choice if we want to follow the religion or not.

I think that God created us to lead a virtuous life based on His teachings and guidance. This is why he sent Prophets. I believe that we will be rewarded well in after life if we choose to follow him & Islam is the religion chosen by the God for us

 

[TomCat111]

And I am not a Muslim, and i hate Fundo Islamic/Christian/Hindu States, I rather be were everyone is treated equal, The very fact Muslims cant accept seculatism, which means letting other people be, is the reason they have so many problems around the world, It is always MY WAY OF THE HIGHWAY i. Why should I follow anyother religion's dikats. IS my religion not good enough, Or have people forgotten the value of respecting in other people's belief.
God is not a School teacher with a stick, I see him like a mother with compassion, who forgives his child for his mistakes and values his child not when he prays 5 times or go to the church or temple, but when he loves a fellow human being. I God has a greater heart than us petty human beings and he doesnt hold grudges, he is greater person than that

Islamisim for a non-Islamic person is as destructive as you oput capitalism/communism etc

I bid adios from the thread

Is your religion a Super-Uber religion that every one in the world should know about, exactly why you have so many problems, MY WAY OF THE HIGHWAY, For you its always, Every Non-Muslim can live, but under the relam of Islamic priciples, well tough luck, you aint going to get it. You follow your religion, dont come and tell me how to follow mine
Saudi UAe and Pakistan with its Russian gals and Mujra gals are pure as water..give me a break, I have had it with people like you!!!!Why the hell should i know about Islam or anyother religion; Practice it presonally and at your home and dont tell me how to do mine, again. You try to subjugate people, they will hit back and they will hitback hard. God doesnt want you to obey him, you fool; He want you to understand why he created you, You can ask satan or god wether he loves satan when you both of them, all i can say is GOd loves all his creations

How unfortunate...... this is a direct result of pacification of Indians on this forum. Pampering Indians has emboldened them to a point where they are openly and maliciously degrading Muslims and Islam, and nobody dares to issue a mildest warning to advice them to behave.

This should serve as a wakeup call for the owners of this forum to decide whether popularity of this forum among Indians override basic decency, morals and principals?

 

[A.Rahman]

That was a real good post Rahmann . Repped you for that

Thank you, is someone giving me negative reps ?! why is 0!

 

[Adux]

Wow you must be tough on those Jehovah's witness
man they are annoying, can you believe it, one of them woke me up at 9 in the morning, & it was sunday!.

Religion cant be forced, the best they can do it tell you about their religion, and if you dont want to hear them :say "I am kind of busy right now, Good day"..... and lock you door.

Its our duty to tell people about Islam, If you don't like to hear about it then you can choose to ignore it.

If god wanted someone to worship him 24/7 with no will, he would have created armies of zombies.

He gave humans "free-will", therefore its our choice if we want to follow the religion or not.

I think that God created us to lead a virtuous life based on His teachings and guidance. This is why he sent Prophets. I believe that we will be rewarded well in after life if we choose to follow him & Islam is the religion chosen by the God for us

I respect that Rahman, May the path that you have taken give you salvation.
I didnt go beserk on rebel not cuz of Islam, But the way he says there are no other way, but live under the secular guidlines given by the islamic community. Why would I wanna do that, Why cant I choose my path to salvation, even if i am worshipping a Table, its my concern and not anybody else's. I am ready to hear about Islam, there must be a lot I can learn, but coming and telling me what I have been doing all my life has been stupid, is not exactly the good way of spreading the message. There was a time muslims understood and accepted other religions..sadly those times are not to be seen anymore

Tomcattt,

My friend Welcome back, I am well versed with your stint PDF, anyways it was my response to rebel, Anyways are your belief's so weak and brittle that it will get shattered by my diatribe. IS only my religion under-scrutiny, if yes sorry to hear that, it wont be so.

 

[A.Rahman]

I respect that Rahman, May the path that you have taken give you salvation.
I didnt go beserk on rebel not cuz of Islam, But the way he says there are no other way, but live under the secular guidlines given by the islamic community. Why would I wanna do that, Why cant I choose my path to salvation, even if i am worshipping a Table, its my concern and not anybody else's. I am ready to hear about Islam, there must be a lot I can learn, but coming and telling me what I have been doing all my life has been stupid, is not exactly the good way of spreading the message. There was a time muslims understood and accepted other religions..sadly those times are not to be seen anymore

Everyone is free to practice any religion they want [ according to Islam]

So dont worry no one will force Islam on you..... I was just wondering what would your life have been like, if you lived in Afghanistan during taliban rule

 

[Adux]

Everyone is free to practice any religion they want [ according to Islam]

So dont worry no one will force Islam on you..... I was just wondering what would your life have been like, if you lived in Afghanistan during taliban rule

That is exactly what i am trying to convey,
No one can force me; my body can be hurt, but my mind cannot be

 

[niaz]

I have refrained from posting on the topic because as a born Musilm I have an inherent bias. For better or worse my opinion is:

Any environment where one is free to practice one's religion is good, be it "secular" or not. For example, UK is not secular; official relgion is Church of England. However there is no ban on Mulsims offering prayers or Hindus building temples or Sikhs their Gurduwaras. New York saw a Muharram procession without any one attempting to break the peace.

Secularism only means that there is no religion of the State and there is no bar from anyone holding any office due to a particular faith. In UK, a King has to be of C of E. James -2 was kicked out because he was suspected of being RC. A secular society does not however mean that it is good or bad for a particular faith. India is secular and a Harijan Dr Ambedkar was asked to write its constitution. However, India still elects BJP after Babri Mosque and Narender Modi gains from the anti mulsim riots. Shiv Sena attacks and burns Valentine cards. ( He thinks love is against Hindu faith; he obviously does not care about KAM DEV)

IMO, it is the broad mindedness and tolerance of the people which makes any system/ environment good or bad for Islam or for any faith for that matter. Turks and Romanian gypsies get beaten up in Germany by neo Nazis, not because of religion, but because they are "Foreigners". It was forbidden to preach or build any religious building other than that of RC faith in Spain until the time of Gen. Franco.

In Pakistan we are suffering from a cancer of intolerance. More overtly religious the people ( such as Pashtoons), more intolerant they are. Today I came across a news that made me vomit. Could you believe it? in the Bajour Agency, mullahs think that anti polio campaign is a part of the Western conspiracy to reduce muslim population.

Result is that one of the Doctors working for anti Polio was gunned down. I am a born muslim and think Islam is the best religion in the world, however,what I understand about Islam is totally different from these ignorant pushtoon mullahs.

Thus my point; it is not the system, but the nature of the people who think they are the gaurdians, make it good or bad, be it Bal Thakrey's Shiv Sena or Mulana Faqir Mohammed's TNFM.

 

[Adux]

I have refrained from posting on the topic because as a born Musilm I have an inherent bias. For better or worse my opinion is:

Any environment where one is free to practice one's religion is good, be it "secular" or not. For example, UK is not secular; official relgion is Church of England. However there is no ban on Mulsims offering prayers or Hindus building temples or Sikhs their Gurduwaras. New York saw a Muharram procession without any one attempting to break the peace.

Secularism only means that there is no religion of the State and there is no bar from anyone holding any office due to a particular faith. In UK, a King has to be of C of E. James -2 was kicked out because he was suspected of being RC. A secular society does not however mean that it is good or bad for a particular faith. India is secular and a Harijan Dr Ambedkar was asked to write its constitution. However, India still elects BJP after Babri Mosque and Narender Modi gains from the anti mulsim riots. Shiv Sena attacks and burns Valentine cards. ( He thinks love is against Hindu faith; he obviously does not care about KAM DEV)

IMO, it is the broad mindedness and tolerance of the people which makes any system/ environment good or bad for Islam or for any faith for that matter. Turks and Romanian gypsies get beaten up in Germany by neo Nazis, not because of religion, but because they are "Foreigners". It was forbidden to preach or build any religious building other than that of RC faith in Spain until the time of Gen. Franco.

In Pakistan we are suffering from a cancer of intolerance. More overtly religious the people ( such as Pashtoons), more intolerant they are. Today I came across a news that made me vomit. Could you believe it? in the Bajour Agency, mullahs think that anti polio campaign is a part of the Western conspiracy to reduce muslim population.

Result is that one of the Doctors working for anti Polio was gunned down. I am a born muslim and think Islam is the best religion in the world, however,what I understand about Islam is totally different from these ignorant pushtoon mullahs.

Thus my point; it is not the system, but the nature of the people who think they are the gaurdians, make it good or bad, be it Bal Thakrey's Shiv Sena or Mulana Faqir Mohammed's TNFM.

Now why cant more people think like this