SECULARISM- "India Style"

[Nalwa]

I think they have the leadership to look for. They are generally quite hard working and creative.

The problem they face is because of the ghetto they live in.

Look at Sikhs, after 1984 they spread to many unchartered territory and live among people where they should have the biggest fear.

If you go to some small towns in Odisha, you will find them as the richest and most respected business man.

They just need to understand the secular values in the ordinary Hindu Indians is ingrained to such an extent that they think it is the real Hindusim. They don't need to feel unsafe among ordinary hindus. The main danger is from their monotony of ghetto life.

The Hinduism the Sanghis talk are based on agenda and fortunately they are fringe.

I wouldn't go too far in comparing Muslims with Sikhs. The Sikhs dont have to live with the baggage of being a foreign religion and of their 'ancestors' destroying temples and converting masses forcibly. What I am trying to get at here is that there might be some lingering and underlying resentment against the Muslim community that debilitates their progress.

 

[jdme]

Who decides what is hypocrisy?
Can you decide and define it for me?
Do you really believe that Indians like me need assistant from people like you to form opinion? After all we are a democracy and we can dream till we realize the same through the power of democratic process.

This is beyond silly. There is established definition of secularism and it's practiced by most western nations. If you cannot add anything intellectual to the argument, why even post?

And yes, this swings both ways. India does have "hindu" laws too. And BJP is not the way. Shame we cannot find an actual secular party.

 

[KS]

but many ppl don't believe that esp minorities, plus i think BJP is not doing enough to attract minorities toward them. this is one of the reason BJP is out of power for many yrs now. india has 20% minority population & it is hard to come to power when straightaway 20% ppl are against a party. BJP need more to do so that minorities can have faith in it.

True. This can be attributed to some foolish moves of the BJP ,the excellent propaganda by the Congress/"secular" parties and their lapdogs English media that anything associated with the BJP is evil and also that the Hindus are not politically organized on the scale of Christians/Muslims.

But I believe "development" is the key and the people, most of them , will vote for any party that promises and more importantly delivers on the promise of development. The case of Muslims voting for BJP in Guj, in Bihar are examples.

out of topic ques but karthic i want to know that why BJP has very less or no ground in south india politics.

Well South ( I can speak about TN) is not like the North Indian politics - In Tamil Nadu there is no national party as our politics is essentially based on the DMK and ADMK - the so called Dravidan politics.

 

[jdme]

Kartic, all I gather from your post is that the Hindu right-wing's (hope you'd allow me the use of this term) hands were forced by political intransigence by Congress and by the Muslims. But is that the only way to look at it? Why didnt they wait for the courts to decide? Why did they pre-empt the court's judgement? Surely, if they had 20 more years (not a long time given that the conflict was centuries old) they had come out as the better off as the SC judgement proved.

Here's what I see - BJP needed a plank to come to power. There was of course some disaffection in the Hindu community at minority (mainly Muslim) appeasement and the Hindu right-wing used it efficiently. Where BJP lost the plot was when it allowed its extremist splinter groups to take control of the situation and carry out a violent act.

Well put. BJP, Congress,....they all need to go. We need to find parties that run on economic platform and not religious.

 

[jdme]

I think they have the leadership to look for. They are generally quite hard working and creative.

The problem they face is because of the ghetto they live in.

Look at Sikhs, after 1984 they spread to many unchartered territory and live among people where they should have the biggest fear.

If you go to some small towns in Odisha, you will find them as the richest and most respected business man.

They just need to understand the secular values in the ordinary Hindu Indians is ingrained to such an extent that they think it is the real Hindusim. They don't need to feel unsafe among ordinary hindus. The main danger is from their monotony of ghetto life.

The Hinduism the Sanghis talk are based on agenda and fortunately they are fringe.

Hmmm..Is that some place in India?

 

[alphamale]

Well put. BJP, Congress,....they all need to go. We need to find parties that run on economic platform and not religious.

sorry but no such party exists. every party bring religion in it's ideology in some way or other & this will continue till all indians are well educated.

 

[alphamale]

Hmmm..Is that some place in India?

orissa has been renamed odisha...............

 

[jdme]

orissa has been renamed odisha...............

Really? What for?

 

[alphamale]

Really? What for?

it seems like u forgot the tradition of politicians which is to change names of places every now & then.

 

[Lala_Peace]

Wrong - Real Secularism happens only when neither community feels superior or constitutionally dis-advantaged as opposed to the one way street you are proposing.



All the Right wing,the English media, a select group of human rights activists like Teesta and our self declared 'secular' politicians like Lalu,Dig Vijay.

The blame lies on all in varying proportions.

Your way of putting every opinion as "Wrong" or "Right" is a habitual disease that can not see others make their opinion public. Bro...we will not let Modi become a Hitler. We Indians are that secular.

When a particular community is in majority it is natural to think superior, racially dominant and start thinking laws is their. In all the countries around the world this is the phenomena.

I am fortunate to live in a land where my fellow Hindu brothers don't feel like that. I must give credit to the secular upbringing of their. But unfortunately they are being contempt of their upbringing. I belong to the same majority, I have similar upbringing and I love to pass that to my next generation.

Regarding Lalu I can not comment. Regarding Mr. Digvijay Singh, he has his point to make which in the light of majority terrorism is quite valid. He may be stretching things sometime, but he is quite learned enough to think independently and share his opinion in democratic framework.

 

[Swati Shukla]

Secularism hmmmm, this term is confusing one when it comes to india. on one side if u talk abt rights & development of minorities then it is called secularism but if u talk same abt hindus then it is thread to secularism. infact if u suffix the word hindu with anything then it is anti secular. while on other side there are other type of ppl who are ok with secularism but they want that hindus should always have upper hand in every term when it come to secularism.

The highest court
in the land might have held that Hindutva is a way of life and
not a method of worship and ruled that it is not inconsistent
with secularism. But the Indian secular agenda overrules the
Supreme Court and holds the concept of Hindutva to be an
obnoxious idea. Christian values, Islamic ideals and Buddhist
ethics could at different times be secular concepts but Hindutva
is an out and out communal idea.

 

[Lala_Peace]

This is beyond silly. There is established definition of secularism and it's practiced by most western nations. If you cannot add anything intellectual to the argument, why even post?

And yes, this swings both ways. India does have "hindu" laws too. And BJP is not the way. Shame we cannot find an actual secular party.

Could you please put the established definition for me? Do they have the same demography to deal with as ours?

Can you deny that demography has a role to play while framing rules. Can we copy and paste established laws of some European countries where minority can be put in couple of thousands?

No opinion is silly, bro. You just need to be as intelligent to understand it.

 

[jdme]

Your way of putting every opinion as "Wrong" or "Right" is a habitual disease that can not see others make their opinion public. Bro...we will not let Modi become a Hitler. We Indians are that secular.

When a particular community is in majority it is natural to think superior, racially dominant and start thinking laws is their. In all the countries around the world this is the phenomena.

I am fortunate to live in a land where my fellow Hindu brothers don't feel like that. I must give credit to the secular upbringing of their. But unfortunately they are being contempt of their upbringing. I belong to the same majority, I have similar upbringing and I love to pass that to my next generation.

Regarding Lalu I can not comment. Regarding Mr. Digvijay Singh, he has his point to make which in the light of majority terrorism is quite valid. He may be stretching things sometime, but he is quite learned enough to think independently and share his opinion in democratic framework.

LOL..This is downright sinister.

"We Indians are that secular"

LOL. Just like we invented our own English, now we are coining a new meaning for secularism too!


He is trying to portray the passive tendencies of majority as "secularism".

He is worse than "Modi".

 

[Swati Shukla]

Cho takes a few liberties here and there. He conveniently forgets that we are a heterogeneous country. Unity in diversity might be a good theory but in practice, it sometimes falters.

Yeah, we are Heterogeneous Country. the secular platform condemns the
slogan "justice for all, appeasement of none" as a perfidious
attempt to deny equality to the minorities. Appeasement of a few
and justice for none is a more secular programme than justice for
all and appeasement of none.

Ayodhya - The problem isnt that the Ram temple cannot be built. The problem is that you cant go on correcting history by destroying archaelogical property. If we go on that path, where does it end?

A temple where
there was a temple, is not as secular a concept as a mosque where
there was no mosque. Hence anyone who says that he would attempt
persuasion and all other legal and constitutional means to get a
temple built at Ayodhya is a fanatic out to destroy the unity of
the country.


Take an Example. If America attacks us and destroys Golden Temple and build a church there, And after some struggle, we overcome their power, them wouldn't you build Golden temple again at that place?? Ayodhya is our most holy place for god sake.

 

[Swati Shukla]

Please can some provide the Definition of Secularism according to Indian constitution.
As far as I know our constitution do not define secularism !! but Congress does !

Congress is the Institution which has the authority to issue secular Certificates. Anything other than Hinduism is secular and anything related to hinduism is Communal.