I have been on this forum for a while, since I am not a defence expert, I try to learn more and write less. Most of my posts are on political and social aspect rather than on defence, and while going through these sections, I have come to realize the high degree of polarization on social and political issues among Indian and Pakistani posters. Most criticized (and correctly too) are the secular credentials of India. From the territory under British rule, India has emerged as the only constitutionally secular country which has a majority of Hindu Populations, and Hindus, we are taught are the most tolerant and naturally secular people.
All seems so good on paper, infact too good to be true. Constitutionally every segment has their respective rights and entitled to similar benefits, but it’s the ground reality that bites. I am a patriotic Indian, and I feel it is my duty to accept the realities of our society. We are told by Pakistani members about no. of Muslims in Army, about No. of Muslim Prime Ministers etc. To counter this Indians post some survey showing improvement in the Living standards of muslim, Azim Premzi, Kalam, any number of bollywood personalities etc. Statistics I believe are not the right tool to measure the degree of secularism. As it is wisely said Statistics are like mini skirts, they reveal more than they conceal, but they conceal the most important parts. I am more concerned about the increasing number of Muslim migration to Muslim dominated neighborhood than decreasing number of Muslims in Army.
I would dare any red blooded Indian to put a hand on his heart and say that in India Muslims have the same social and economical position as Hindus or Sikhs. They do not. Blunt and harsh as it may be, but that is the truth. And the real danger to secularism is not from a small 5-8% segment of right wing Hindu extremists but from another maybe 30-40% who are constantly skeptical about fellow Indian's intentions because of his/her religion. They will hail Azharuddin when he produces consecutive centuries, but won't take a second to term him as a traitor when he fails against Pakistan.
To me the epitome of lowering of secular standards recently is not Gujrat. Gujrat is the end product of a process. The process started when we suddenly stopped seeing signs of "Hindu Muslim Sikh Isai apas main sab bhai bhai" behind every truck, auto and tea stalls. It stated getting replaced by "Hindustan main rehna hai to Vande Matram Kehna Hoga". We stopped showing Titles of the movie in Urdu. We started calling Ghazal as Gajal. Urdu was marginalized. Mughlai Dishes in Menu card turned into Punjabi. These things added up. Some started asking for proof of patriotism in Muslims as if by some divine grace they have the authority to provide another Indian a right to living in his own country. Every time a doubt is raised over patriotism of a Muslim, the secular belief takes a blow. I agree completely with Jaswant Singh when he says: At times Muslims are treated as Aliens. Yes Babri Masjid, Blue Star and Gujrat are such blots on Indian history that can never be wiped out and realization that the perpetrators of such ghastly acts are still roaming free on street makes me hang my head in shame.
Another issue I have is with poster comparing treatment of minorities in India with Minorities in Pakistan. This is completely unjustified as Pakistan is a declared Islamic Republic and India is constitutionally secular.
On the other hand - Is it all as evil as few Pakistani posters make it sound? Is their any state sponsored religious cleansing happening? Are Muslims treated as second rate citizens and deprived of opportunity? Are they bound to live in ghettos and not allowed residence in posh localities? Are they economically worse than Dalits? Are Hindus a sworn enemy of Muslims? Answer is an Emphatic - NO.
Approach of Hindus towards Muslims may be skeptical but is not generally hostile. Most of the Violence and crimes in Riots are not acts of extremely religious Hindus but of opportunist criminals who would have taken advantage of the situation regardless of victim’s religious background. Our justice system is more to blame for not punishing these criminals than our social fabric. Lack of Muslims in Public services is because of reliance on Madarsa system rather than regular school. Economic backwardness is more because of the geographic distribution of Muslim population than religious bias.
The reality is somewhere between the two extremes painted by Indian and Pakistani posters. It is secular and communal at the same time. To my mind, the defining image of India is the crowd, and a crowd is by its very nature superabundant, heterogeneous, many things at once.
First of all india is a constitutionally secular contry ...it means GOI and all branches of the Constitution must adhere to secularism while conducting their constitutinal dutie .
It never asks indian citizens be it hindu/muslim/sikh to act in a
secular manner in their personal capacities.No country in the world does that either.
And yes ofcourse hindus are the most tolerant and naturally secular people.I dont think any other country in the world where majority section people agreed to insert the word "secular"inserted in the Constitution framwork,so unique in that sense.
Isnt it true that there are muslims citizens like Azim Premzi, Kalam,Shahrukh Khan, many muslim film stars and muslim sports men have achieved the success irrespective of their religion solely based the talent and hardwork.
It also simply signifies that a minority muslim notion dont create any sort of hinderance in leading a successful life in a hindu majority india.Isnt that showcase a truely secular country.
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I am more concerned about the increasing number of Muslim migration to Muslim dominated neighborhood than decreasing number of Muslims in Army. "
Whats so surprising in it??
It comes down to
comfort lavel rather than Xenophobia where people prefer to live among their own kind...be in the sense of religion or region.
I dont think we have only muslim ghettos as there are Gujarati colonies,Bengali society,South indian apartments ,army societies many such ghettos of many different hues.In fact what about china towns or hindu or muslim dominated areas of very secular societies like London or NewYork??
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They will hail Azharuddin when he produces consecutive centuries, but won't take a second to term him as a traitor when he fails against Pakistan "
It has more to do with personal prejudices based every man insecurities rather than lack of respect for the secular nature of country.
Religious or racial profiling is part of every society in some measure e,g trouble faced by Shahrukh Khan in US airport.
U forgot to mention,
the same Azharuddin was the captain of indian cricket team and has been married to a hindu and become a MP recently of constituenty where majority ppl are hindus.
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To me the epitome of lowering of secular standards recently is not Gujrat. Gujrat is the end product of a process."
Incidence like Gujarat or sikh riots are worst case scenerios,this is a counry where there is so much crores of people living in poverty,uneducation,social disparity,crime,
decades religous terrorism,internal displacement and centuries old oppression majority hindu communities seen in few other places , that its miracle only few thousand ppl got killed riots or sectarian violence in this many decades..
And regrading the decline of muslim cultural influence, do u expect that we should 've promoted farsi/arabic like the minority muslim rulers that ruled of india.
There are still many positive influence of muslim culture intact...loved and admired by many in india ...
where as after many centuries,its the regioanl culture of different indian states getting prominance in their respective states.Minorities are also part that regional revival in each states.
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This is completely unjustified as Pakistan is a declared Islamic Republic and India is constitutionally secular"
Now that takes the cake.
U cant discuss indian secularism in a vaccum whie dabating it with pakistanis.
Also I think its completely unjustified to question india's secularism when pakistanis dont live in secular society in pakistan themselves.
Its like china questioning the issues about personal freedom in USA...deeply ironical i must say to begin with.
And treating ur minorites equally in pakistan and giving them same equal legal status is two completely separate things.If they were same , pakistan would have been a secular state long before today. well before that i guess it must strengthen its democracy first.
I must conclude this with saying that though we are not a perfect secular society even a perfect democracy,given societal,financial and educational conditions of majority of indians,the reason for this lasting trust and acceptance in secular values lies in the hindu philosophy of universal brotherhood and religious tolerance culture.Thats why ome dont see too much protest about its secular status even from majority hindus.
so when is India going to implement the reccomendations made by the Sachar Committee ????
