Secular and Nationalist Jinnah Review

[SoulSpokesman]

@SecularNationalist

I admire only our beloved qaid (RA). The g@n** mahatma was a Hindu racist, casteist, fascist, misogynist, bigoted freak as my qaid-e-azam saani has incontrovertibly proved.

Regards

 

[SecularNationalist]

@SecularNationalist

I admire only our beloved qaid (RA). The g@n** mahatma was a Hindu racist, casteist, fascist, misogynist, bigoted freak as my qaid-e-azam saani has incontrovertibly proved.

Regards

Well in that book the authors exactly used the same words to describe gandhi.
One more question "Are you indian muslim or indian hindu ?

 

[SoulSpokesman]

@SecularNationalist

Indian Hindu.

Btw, which book are you referring to?

Regards

 

[Psychic]

Jinnah wanted neither a secular Pakistan nor a theocratic one. Had he wanted a secular Pakistan, he would have never established the Department of Islamic Reconstruction.

The people who repaint Jinnah as a secular are being dishonest. Explain these sayings of Mr "secular" Jinnah.


1-"What more can one really expect than to see that this mighty land has now been brought under a rule, which is Islamic, Muslim rule, as a sovereign independent State."

2-"Whatever I have done, I did as a servant of Islam, and only tried to perform my duty and made every possible contribution within my power to help our Nation. . . We Musalmans believe in one God, one Book - the Holy Qur'an - and one Prophet. So we must stand united as one Nation. You know the old saying that in unity lies strength; united we stand, divided we fall."

3-"You are only voicing my sentiments and the sentiments of millions of Musalmans when you say that Pakistan should be based on sure foundations of social justice and Islamic socialism which emphasizes equality and brotherhood of man."

4-"There can . . . be only one lingua franca, that is, the language for inter-communication between the various provinces of the State, and that language should be Urdu and cannot be any other. The State language, therefore, must obviously be Urdu, a language that has been nurtured by a hundred million Muslims of this sub-continent, a language understood throughout the length and breadth of Pakistan and above all, a language which, more than any other provincial language, embodies the best that is in Islamic culture and Muslim tradition and nearest to the language used in other Islamic countries."

5-"If President Roosevelt, under the pressure of the powerful world Jewry, commits the blunder of forcing the British Government to do injustice to the Arabs in Palestine, it will set the whole Muslim world ablaze from one end to another. Grave wrongs had already been done to the Arabs. If the Jewish immigration is allowed to continue, I have no doubt that not only the Muslim League will revolt but the whole Muslim world will revolt."

6-"Pakistan is the premier Islamic State and the fifth largest in the world. . . The constitution of Pakistan has yet to be framed by the Pakistan Constituent Assembly. I do not know what the ultimate shape of this constitution is going to be, but I am sure that it will be of a democratic type, embodying the essential principles of Islam. Today, they are as applicable in actual life as they were 1,300 years ago. Islam and idealism have taught us democracy. It has taught equality of men, justice and fairplay to everybody. We are the inheritors of these glorious traditions and are fully alive to our responsibilities and obligations as framers of the future constitution of Pakistan. In any case, Pakistan is not going to be a theocratic State - to be ruled by priests with a divine mission."

7-"The Prophet (PBUH) was a great teacher. He was a great law-giver. He was a great statesman and he was a great Sovereign who ruled. No doubt, there are people who do not quite appreciate when we talk of Islam. . . Islam is not only a set of rituals, traditions and spiritual doctrines. Islam is a code for every Muslim which regulates his life and his conduct in even politics and economics and the like."

8-"Why this feeling of nervousness that the future constitution of Pakistan is going to be in conflict with Shariat Laws? . . . Islamic principles today are as applicable to life as they were 1,300 years ago. "

9-“I could not understand a section of people who deliberately wanted to create mischief and made a propaganda that the constitution of Pakistan would not be made on the basis of Shariat.”
@Desert Fox @Ocean

Following are the aims and objectives of the Department of Islamic Reconstruction which was established by Jinnah. https://documents.mx/education/aims...lamic-reconstruction-muhammad-ali-jinnah.html

 

[SoulSpokesman]

@Psychic

he would have never established the Department of Islamic Reconstruction.

This is a complete lie. Mr YLH has already shown this to be a canard.

Regards

 

[Psychic]

@Psychic

he would have never established the Department of Islamic Reconstruction.

This is a complete lie. Mr YLH has already shown this to be a canard.

Regards

It was established when he was alive.
After his death, the HQ of the department was set on fire yet some of it's documents are still in national archives.

All the secular Jinnah horde has to prove that he wanted a secular country is his 11th August speech and nothing else.

 

[SoulSpokesman]

@Psychic

Our beloved Qaid said inter alia in his speech, "Muslims will cease to be Muslims.... in the political sense", why would he say that? surely he knew that in an Islamic state, Muslims cannot cease to be Muslims.

Regards

 

[I.R.A]

6-"Pakistan is the premier Islamic State and the fifth largest in the world. . . The constitution of Pakistan has yet to be framed by the Pakistan Constituent Assembly. I do not know what the ultimate shape of this constitution is going to be, but I am sure that it will be of a democratic type, embodying the essential principles of Islam. Today, they are as applicable in actual life as they were 1,300 years ago. Islam and idealism have taught us democracy. It has taught equality of men, justice and fairplay to everybody. We are the inheritors of these glorious traditions and are fully alive to our responsibilities and obligations as framers of the future constitution of Pakistan. In any case, Pakistan is not going to be a theocratic State - to be ruled by priests with a divine mission."

@SoulSpokesman sahib ....... you like the op still cannot figure out the difference between an Islamic state, a secular state and a theocratic state. Quaid wanted an Islamic state. As I keep repeating Islamic state is better and superior than both a secular and theocratic state.

 

[SoulSpokesman]

I.R.A mian,

How is an Islamic state different from a theocratic state? (of the green variety, that is, I understand that a saffron theocratic state cannot be an Islamic one.

And why didnt the Qaid in his speech explicitly state that he wanted an Islamic state, that would have settled all doubt?

Regards

 

[Psychic]

@Psychic

Our beloved Qaid said inter alia in his speech, "Muslims will cease to be Muslims.... in the political sense", why would he say that? surely he knew that in an Islamic state, Muslims cannot cease to be Muslims.

Regards

He also said the things mentioned in post#94.

Read the charter of Medina as starter to understand the concept of an Islamic state. Islamic state is not like the one run by Mr Abu Bakr Baghdadi.

Charter of Madina granted rights to worship according to their own beliefs to the Jews living in the Islamic state of Madina. But when Quaid-e-Azam says the same thing then he is declared a secular.

 

[I.R.A]

I.R.A mian,

How is an Islamic state different from a theocratic state? (of the green variety, that is, I understand that a saffron theocratic state cannot be an Islamic one.

I will try a brief explanation of difference ....... between

Islamic state ........ State makes and implements laws within immutable guidance given in Quran, it works for the betterment of its citizen irrespective of their color, creed or religion. Its primary goal remains, freedom, development and betterment of humanity. Rewards are according to the hard work and not based on stupid criteria or favoritism. The means of production are better controlled and upgraded so that its population benefits, grows healthy both physically and mentally. The citizens are so free of every worries that they seek knowledge of every sorts and progress and lead the world in discoveries .......... to state few characteristics

Theocratic state ........... makes religion business of ordinary men, allows fatwa selling shops, encourages sectarianism, division of humanity, practices capitalism (an enemy to Islamic principles) in guise of religion, mistreats its population, wishes to keep common man burdened with worries so they don't ever object or question, the means of production are in incompetent hands and favoritism is on blatant display, injustice prevails, intolerance triumphs

Secular state ........ an ideology or governance system that has stolen all Quranic and Islamic principles and painted the body's head infidel. It promotes capitalism though it cherishes freedom and justice.

And why didnt the Qaid in his speech explicitly state that he wanted an Islamic state, that would have settled all doubt?

Regards

Now please read this again ..... Quaid was essentially a man who had deeper insight of Quran's message and principles.

6-"Pakistan is the premier Islamic State and the fifth largest in the world. . . The constitution of Pakistan has yet to be framed by the Pakistan Constituent Assembly. I do not know what the ultimate shape of this constitution is going to be, but I am sure that it will be of a democratic type, embodying the essential principles of Islam. Today, they are as applicable in actual life as they were 1,300 years ago. Islam and idealism have taught us democracy. It has taught equality of men, justice and fairplay to everybody. We are the inheritors of these glorious traditions and are fully alive to our responsibilities and obligations as framers of the future constitution of Pakistan. In any case, Pakistan is not going to be a theocratic State - to be ruled by priests with a divine mission."

 

[SecularNationalist]

@SecularNationalist

Indian Hindu.

Btw, which book are you referring to?

Regards

Read the post no 1 of this thread please for book title.
Well it,s surprising it,s coming from a indian hindu. I am glad still there are indian people who are curious to know the truth.

@SoulSpokesman sahib ....... you like the op still cannot figure out the difference between an Islamic state, a secular state and a theocratic state. Quaid wanted an Islamic state. As I keep repeating Islamic state is better and superior than both a secular and theocratic state.

 

[SoulSpokesman]

Islamic state ........ State makes and implements laws within immutable guidance given in Quran,

True, sir. But such a state consists of some flesh and bones human lawmakers/bureaucrats I suppose. What is to prevent them from behaving like theocrats ( as you have outlined in Para 2)

Regards

 

[I.R.A]

Its beyond you, don't stress it ...... you are fixated ...... with one narrative, nothing else will make sense to you.

I hope laughing helps .......... in soothing ........ because it won't ever help in learning.

True, sir. But such a state consists of some flesh and bones human lawmakers/bureaucrats I suppose. What is to prevent them from behaving like theocrats ( as you have outlined in Para 2)

Regards

Very valid point sir ........ but I haven't mentioned the details of who gets to govern and run the state affairs, the selection of governors would be a true democratic process, where governors would be elected based on their competence and not based their bank accounts and wealth. This state will be lead by elected governors and not the rulers.

Proper checks, controls, and accountability in place will ensure that no one, no individual has the authority to override the laws and is given a treatment different than to an ordinary citizen. Equal application of law and justice for everyone ..... no immunity to anyone based on his financial status, religion, sect or whatever.

I guess it was our Quaid who told the members and bureaucrats that if they wish to have tea then they should come after having tea in their own homes at their own expense, no tea would be served in public office. I guess ... He said something like this.

 

[SoulSpokesman]

the selection of governors would be a true democratic process, where governors would be elected based on their competence and not based their bank accounts and wealth. This state will be lead by elected governors and not the rulers. Proper checks, controls, and accountability in place will ensure that no one, no individual has the authority to override the laws and is given a treatment different than to an ordinary citizen. Equal application of law and justice for everyone ..... no immunity to anyone based on his financial status, religion, sect or whatever.

the same can be achieved in a secular state, too, no?

Regards