Secular and Nationalist Jinnah Review

[SoulSpokesman]

@I.R.A

Thanks for clarifying, but what I was looking for was not your personal rationale but the Islamic rationale. What is Islam/Qurans position on having a female HoS/Khalifa and its rationale for non-allowance for the same (if that is the case).

And what was Jinnah sahib's position on this; especially in light of this statement

“No nation achieves anything unless the women go side by side with men -- even to the battlefield.”

Regards

 

[I.R.A]

@I.R.A

Thanks for clarifying, but what I was looking for was not your personal rationale but the Islamic rationale. What is Islam/Qurans position on having a female HoS/Khalifa and its rationale for non-allowance for the same (if that is the case).

And what was Jinnah sahib's position on this; especially in light of this statement

“No nation achieves anything unless the women go side by side with men -- even to the battlefield.”

Regards

Soul bai ....... as far as Quran is concerned there is no direct prohibition for women to hold such office, but when you study the exemptions, concessions and the rights given by the Quran to women, you would understand that Quran holds women in high regards but as weaker (not inferior) members of the society. For instance, the largely criticized concept of two women's attestation (testimony) is equal to one man's attestation (testimony) .... this isn't because Quran treats women as some inferior humans but because they are weaker members of the society, who are subject to easy emotional blackmail, undue influence, subjugation and submission, they can be easily broken and made to say things and act against their own will. Plus when the Quran was being revealed the society at that time wasn't very friendly towards women, female infants were buried alive, women weren't treated as active members of the society. Quran however, granted them rights, more comfortable position and status in society, remember Messenger Peace be upon him married first time to a lady who ran her own business, and later in battles Muslim women have been accompanying Muslim men on the battlefield.

So Soul bai I can safely assume that given the nature of women, their anatomy and their emotional state they won't make it to the position of HoS / Caliph position, the burden won't be bearable for them. Don't look at that position as some position with extra perks and higher status ..... as I said the burden of that position is for few to bear.

 

[SoulSpokesman]

@I.R.A

Thanks. But at the end of the day, that is only your personal opinion (much as I value your opinions), not the Islamic opinion. So the conclusion I draw is that Islam doesnt forbid women from becoming HoS and our beloved Qaid too was thinking in accordance with the Quran. And that you are indulging in some amount of biddat (if that is the correct term) in seeking to disqualify them from that position.

Regards

 

[I.R.A]

@I.R.A

Thanks. But at the end of the day, that is only your personal opinion (much as I value your opinions), not the Islamic opinion. So the conclusion I draw is that Islam doesnt forbid women from becoming HoS and our beloved Qaid too was thinking in accordance with the Quran. And that you are indulging in some amount of biddat (if that is the correct term) in seeking to disqualify them from that position.

Regards

Soul bai ......... lets be honest, do you seriously find women capable of handling extreme pressure situations, I have seen quite experienced independent ladies crumbling in such situations? Quran protected them and granted them extra concessions / exemptions ...... Quran specifically mentions that they are weaker members.

It would be a biddat or a grave violation on my part if I was going against direct clear instructions of Quran, here in this case Quran is silent in a way that it doesn't specifically prohibit them nor it explicitly allows them, but by the status and rights granted by Quran its not that difficult to understand the rationale.

By the way somewhat similar discussion may interest you on this thread

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/airman-post-rants-about-black-woman-in-her-unit.547442/

 

[SoulSpokesman]

@I.R.A

I can think of some ladies who have distinguished themselves as HoS/HoG- QE1, Queen Victoria, Catehrine the Great, Margaret Thatcher- to name a few. (I hope to see Maryam Nawaz Sharif too to shine one day, after her father has called it a day.)

Nonetheless, this is a very serious matter and if Allah mian had really thought of disqualifying women from being HoS, he would have given explicit instructions in the Quran- it is unthinkable that He would have been silent on such an important matter.

Regards

 

[I.R.A]

@I.R.A

I can think of some ladies who have distinguished themselves as HoS/HoG- QE1, Queen Victoria, Catehrine the Great, Margaret Thatcher- to name a few. (I hope to see Maryam Nawaz Sharif too to shine one day, after her father has called it a day.)

Nonetheless, this is a very serious matter and if Allah mian had really thought of disqualifying women from being HoS, he would have given explicit instructions in the Quran- it is unthinkable that He would have been silent on such an important matter.

Regards

Sir we are not talking about Queens and princesses ........ we are talking about Head of State of an Islamic state. My worthy sir ........ there is a hell of a difference between the two. Name me a palace that was built by Abu Bakar, Umer, Usman, Ali ??????

No matter what the distorted Islamic history says, but let it be my personal assurance, all the Caliphs Rashidun to Ummayad weren't just passed the right to rule .... they were chosen because of their quality attributes and strengths that distinguished them from others, and they were asked for their consent before assuming the role, they knew what sort of responsibility they were undertaking. And to inform you sir, that society had more worthy, capable women than us. And they valued and respected their women more than us.

I would love to see Maryam stand in public, be questioned by commoners and answer honestly ..... it takes a lot to be head of state of an Islamic State. And sir seriously you would agree Quaid and the ones who ruled and are ruling Pakistan weren't cut from the same cloth. Difference is stark and very visible.

 

[SoulSpokesman]

And sir seriously you would agree Quaid and the ones who ruled and are ruling Pakistan weren't cut from the same cloth.

Yes, and barring one, all the rest were men.

There is one more point, barring one Hadhrat Abu Bakr (RA) all the other Khilafat-e-Rashideen were bumped off by fellow faithfuls. Doesnt do much for stable transitions, I am afraid.

Do Shias accept the first three Rightly Guided Caliphs as rightly guided?

Regards

 

[I.R.A]

There is one more point, barring one Hadhrat Abu Bakr (RA) all the other Khilafat-e-Rashideen were bumped off by fellow faithfuls. Doesnt do much for stable transitions, I am afraid.

Do Shias accept the first three Rightly Guided Caliphs as rightly guided?

Regards

I used words "distorted Islamic history" in my previous comment sire.

A Caliphate that expanded to 2.2 million SqMiles ...... that simultaneously fought two super powers of its time ..... you tell me sir would it possible if it was suffering from intrigues, internal rift and instability?

 

[Psychic]

I am yet to understand why our so called "Liberals" oppose any of the above.

Because the above does not conform to the "humanitarian standards" of the West.

The power of propaganda under the guise of free speech. When one is continuously being told how bad sharia and "voilent jihadist fundamentalist Islam" is, he will think that it's true since it is told over and over again. All they know about sharia is stoning,beheading, burqas and the persecution of women. In reality, it is a lot different and there is much more to it.
They don't talk about this Islamic state;
The Founder Of Child Benefits, Pensions, Disability Benefits - First Welfare System & Social Justice System for Humanity
Umar (Omar) bin al-Khattab, the Second Khalifa of the Muslims
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/the-...fits-first-welfare-system-of-humanity.288092/
Perhaps they want the incompetent hungry baboons and their progeny to rule us till doomsday instead of a pious intelligent Khalifa who loves his people.

Did the Quaid know that Mr Ghulam Ahmed Mirza considered all who didn't believe him infidels?

Not everyone is expert at everything. May be he knew, may be he didn't or may be he kept quiet for political reasons. May be the time was not right to declare a community as non-Muslim.
I had quoted nine statements of Quaid in which he talked about the future of Pakistan as an Islamic state. (For many however, the one of 11 Aug is more important although there is nothing which is un-Islamic or secular in that statement).
People think that an Islamic state is something hideous as they believe that the minorities must be persecuted in an Islamic state, on the contrary it is the job of an Islamic state to protect the fundamental human rights of the minorities including the right to worship.