SCMP: Is China doubling down on assimilation of its ethnic minorities?

[REhorror]

for some reason I can't stand the sound of French, despite so many people consider it "the most pleasing language to the ears".

Yeah, I learnt and know French, but seriously it's a weird sounding one.
Spanish is much better as a Romance language, at least they don't have two pronounciation for the letter "e".

Yes, assimilation and melting pot should be the norm. China should remove all benefits specifically directed at ethnic minorities and re-designate every autonomous regions into provinces.


No, Cantonese is mostly limited to Guangdong only. The south is a lot bigger than just Guangdong

"Strict" south:
- Guangdong
- Guangxi

"Greater" south:
- Guangdong
- Guangxi
- Yunnan
- Fujian
- Hunan
- Hainan
- Taiwan

Anything ending with a "nan" literally means south.

Guangdong is the biggest though, and tbh, only the Cantonese manage to have sizable dialect community going on, most other communities have switched to Mandarin.
Don't get me wrong, Mandarin is OK, but Cantonese is closer to old Chinese, if it's lost, it would be a big loss to China.

 

[Song Hong]

Yeah, I learnt and know French, but seriously it's a weird sounding one.
Spanish is much better as a Romance language, at least they don't have two pronounciation for the letter "e".

Guangdong is the biggest though, and tbh, only the Cantonese manage to have sizable dialect community going on, most other communities have switched to Mandarin.
Don't get me wrong, Mandarin is OK, but Cantonese is closer to old Chinese, if it's lost, it would be a big loss to China.

Vietnamese preserve a lot of old Chinese phonetics way more than Min Nan. Many PDF Chinese are not aware of the link else they wont keep attacking Vietnam. And many Vietnamese got brainwash by Le Duan that they persecute Chinese.

The ancient Chinese have infrequent S, Sh, Zh, CH sound. The ancient Chinese use T sound.

Chinese who needs to study old Chinese phonetics will need to take reference to Vietnamese and Min Nan (Taiwanese). Meanwhile Vietnamese who need to understand old Vietnamese will need to study Chinese.

For example

Chen 陈 = Tran
Zheng 郑 = Trinch
Su 苏 = To

 

[REhorror]

View attachment 909069

Vietnamese preserve a lot of old Chinese phonetics way more than Min Nan. Many PDF Chinese are not aware of the link else they wont keep attacking Vietnam. And many Vietnamese got brainwash by Le Duan that they persecute Chinese.

The ancient Chinese have infrequent S, Sh, Zh, CH sound. The ancient Chinese use T sound.

Chinese who needs to study old Chinese phonetics will need to take reference to Vietnamese and Min Nan (Taiwanese). Meanwhile Vietnamese who need to understand old Vietnamese will need to study Chinese.

For example

Chen 陈 = Tran
Zheng 郑 = Trinch
Su 苏 = To

Vietnamese who study Hán Nôm is a different breed than Vietnamese who study Mandarin.
If you only study Mandarin, you wouldn't be able to pronounce Hán Nôm, because Hán Nôm has vietnamese or cantonese-like pronounciation.

This is honestly another flaw to Mandarin, you can read old text sure, but it will sound totally different, a lot of vocal elements are lost and it won't rthyhm. Never mind nowadays with simplified characters.

 

[Song Hong]

Vietnamese who study Hán Nôm is a different breed than Vietnamese who study Mandarin.
If you only study Mandarin, you wouldn't be able to pronounce Hán Nôm, because Hán Nôm has vietnamese or cantonese-like pronounciation.

This is honestly another flaw to Mandarin, you can read old text sure, but it will sound totally different, a lot of vocal elements are lost and it won't rthyhm. Never mind nowadays with simplified characters.

Cantonese and Min Nan will fade away. The spoken language is not codified. The have little presence in mass media and internet.

I like the sound of elegance and Cantonese, but I am aware of the reality.

Many people in Shanghai no longer speak Wu dialect, which is very expressive as well.

 

[REhorror]

Cantonese and Min Nan will fade away. The spoken language is not codified. The have little presence in mass media and internet.

I like the sound of elegance and Cantonese, but I am aware of the reality.

Many people in Shanghai no longer speak Wu dialect, which is very expressive as well.

At least some of it will be preserved in Vietnamese and Japanese, I guess.

EDIT: I wonder why there's no attempt from the CCP to officially codify Cantonese, they can codify the Mongolian script and Tibetan script but not Cantonese? I hope this is not another North vs. South conflict.

 

[Song Hong]

At least some of it will be preserved in Vietnamese and Japanese, I guess.

EDIT: I wonder why there's no attempt from the CCP to officially codify Cantonese, they can codify the Mongolian script and Tibetan script but not Cantonese? I hope this is not another North vs. South conflict.

Every single provincial elite promotes Mandarin at the expense of the mother tongue once they are promoted to central government.

This is Chinese culture. Political and cultural unity have priority over regional cultural preservation.

Vietnamese also pick this up. That is why Nan Tien is so successful.

 

[kankan326]

This is honestly another flaw to Mandarin, you can read old text sure, but it will sound totally different, a lot of vocal elements are lost and it won't rthyhm. Never mind nowadays with simplified characters.

Mandarin and Cantonese are like two branches of ancient Chinese evolution. They all inherit and lose some ancient Chinese characteristics. It is wrong to say Cantonese is more close to ancient Chinese compared to Mandarin. In most cases, rhythms are still there when reading ancient poems by Mandarin.

 

[Song Hong]

Saigon come into Vietnam quite late. Yet no one in Saigon think they are Khmer. Vietnam has indeed assimilate Khmer well. And today, I go Sapa, Cao Bang, Lao Cai, not a single Hmong or Tay resist learning Vietnamese and soon they will think they are Kinh.

Fk all these white man extreme diversity and moral relativism. White man want to break up other countries.

 

[REhorror]

Mandarin and Cantonese are like two branches of ancient Chinese evolution. They all inherit and lose some ancient Chinese characteristics. It is wrong to say Cantonese is more close to ancient Chinese compared to Mandarin. In most cases, rhythms are still there when reading ancient poems by Mandarin.

Would be interesting to see how Tang poems by Ly Bạch rhythms in Cantonese vs. Mandarin.

 

[kankan326]

Would be interesting to see how Tang poems by Ly Bạch rhythms in Cantonese vs. Mandarin.

Same poem in Cantonese

 

[Song Hong]

Anglo are forever harming and killing Confucian in SE Asia. This is Malay are Indos girls sexy dressing in the past. Today, a lot of Malay girls dress burka due to white man (with local elites) stirring diametrically against Malay tradition.

Many of these radicalization actually serve to unite their race against Chinese.

 

[kankan326]

Would be interesting to see how Tang poems by Ly Bạch rhythms in Cantonese vs. Mandarin.

将进酒 李白（Li Bai) Cantonese vs. Mandarin vs. Beijing opera version.

 

[S10]

Yeah, I learnt and know French, but seriously it's a weird sounding one.
Spanish is much better as a Romance language, at least they don't have two pronounciation for the letter "e".

Guangdong is the biggest though, and tbh, only the Cantonese manage to have sizable dialect community going on, most other communities have switched to Mandarin.
Don't get me wrong, Mandarin is OK, but Cantonese is closer to old Chinese, if it's lost, it would be a big loss to China.

Almost every region outside of north China has their own dialect. "Old" Chinese is a fluid process, not a set piece. Each period had their own change in pronunciation.

Some of them even sound sort of Vietnamese.

 

[REhorror]

Almost every region outside of north China has their own dialect. "Old" Chinese is a fluid process, not a set piece. Each period had their own change in pronunciation.

Some of them even sound sort of Vietnamese.

How alive are these dialects tho?
Most of them have switched to mandarin, that's my point.

And there's actually vietnamese spoken in China too, since we have ethnic vietnamese minorities living in China. They don't use the latin characters tho, but hanzi.

 

[Song Hong]

How alive are these dialects tho?
Most of them have switched to mandarin, that's my point.

And there's actually vietnamese spoken in China too, since we have ethnic vietnamese minorities living in China. They don't use the latin characters tho, but hanzi.

If Vietnam remains in China, soon Vietnamese will become yet another Chinese dialect and disappear.

Kinh and Chinese assimilate each others extremely well. The Hoa think they are Vietnamese and Vietnamese in China think they are Chinese.

But Chinese Kinh almost concentrated in Fangcheng which is few km from Vietnam and they like to marry girls from Vietnam. So they preserve their language till now.

My Chinese Kinh friend told me Han women too feminist and Vietnam girl very feminine. Chinese kinh like to go back Vietnam to find wife.