SCMP: Is China doubling down on assimilation of its ethnic minorities?

[kankan326]

Cantonese was the language of the Canto-pop and HK movies which were the hit all over Asia, and the world. Jackie Chan, Bruce Lee and Jet Li hit movies were all in cantonese, if they really sound weird, the world would not accept it.

To this day, I think Mandarin version of some of the classic HK songs still cannot be compared to the original.
Like the Shanghai Bund song:
Cantonese version:

Mandarin version:

Mandarin really has so much sh, zh, and sounds really hoarse, like a horse hissing.

A song always loses some deep content when it is sung by another language, It happens for all songs. For me, Korean hurts my ears. Which doesn't change the fact that Korean musics and movies are popular in other countries.

Mandarin speakers usually mock Cantonese as "bird language".

 

[REhorror]

A song always lose some deep content when it is sung by another language, It happens for all songs. For me, Korean hurts my ears. Which doesn't change the fact Korean music and movies are popular in other countries.

Mandarin speakers usually mock Cantonese as "bird language".

That's really prejudice there. The girl sounds nothing like cantonese.
Then again, Cantonese really sounds like bird chirping, that's nicer to hear than horse hissing, I suppose.
But yeah, I can't stand korean either.

I'm a Vietnam - Cantonese - Japanese fan because of the southern China influence, some words are pronounced the same.

 

[Dark Sage]

Nguyen is aboriginal. Most smaller surname have Chinese forefathers.

Telling me you are not Vietnamese without telling me you are not Vietnamese. Little pinks.

 

[kankan326]

That's really prejudice there. The girl sounds nothing like cantonese.
Then again, Cantonese really sounds like bird chirping, that's nicer to hear than horse hissing, I suppose.
But yeah, I can't stand korean either.

I'm a Vietnam - Cantonese - Japanese fan because of the southern China influence, some words are pronounced the same.

Again. You better ask those people who don't speak Mandarin, Cantonese and Vietnamese for an objective view.

上海滩，Mandarin version. Sung by same singer. Better than the one you posted, isn't it?

 

[REhorror]

Again. You better ask those people who don't speak Mandarin, Cantonese and Vietnamese for an objective view.

上海滩，Mandarin verson. Sung by same singer. Better than the one you posted, isn't it?

OK, bro, I will ask when I have the chance.
And nah, I don't think so, it's definitely better than the cover I post, but my issue with Mandarin hoarse pronounciation remains, Cantonese just sounds more natural and flowery to me.

EDIT: There's even a Quora thread for this topic:

Which sounds better to non-Chinese speakers: Mandarin or Cantonese?

Answer (1 of 29): This is a very subjective question so it probably depends a lot on people’s tastes/what they are exposed to. That said: Cantonese. I see a lot of people saying Mandarin sounds more melodious, but I don’t really get that. Even before I knew any Cantonese or Mandarin, I thought ...

www.quora.com

Looks like Mandarin wins a slight bit, I LOL when people say the Cantonese sounds like bickering/arguing though (lot of curse words) and Beijing Mandarin sounds rough.
My favorite answer:

I’m going to first try to answer the question as it was directly asked. To a totally non-Chinese person, they wouldn’t be able to differentiate Mandarin from Cantonese in the first place. Its all “ching-chong” to them, errr I’m gonna get another beer LOL.

Again my answer is going to be biased, but I really feel that in Cantonese, songs and poems actually rhyme. And that’s because my particular dialect of Chinese happens to be closest to ancient traditional Chinese, the kind of Chinese that was written and spoken thousands of years ago. We even still use some of the old traditional Chinese characters that mainland PRC people have gotten rid of and simplified. And because I happen to speak Cantonese, my dialect happens to share more cognates with Korean and Japanese because both of those neighboring countries adopted vocabulary from Old Chinese, which is again still similar to Cantonese.

Mandarin on the other hand is actually a blending of Manchu and other northern tribes mixed with Old Chinese. That’s because the Manchurians simply could never learn to pronounce Old Chinese correctly, so they settled on whatever bastard hybrid language they came up with and that became Mandarin. Mandarin to me always sounds so harsh, like you’re fighting with someone so that’s another reason why I don’t personally like it.

This girl answer is like, 100% my opinion.

 

[kankan326]

Looks like Mandarin wins a slight bit, I LOL when people say the Cantonese sounds like bickering/arguing though (lot of curse words) and Beijing Mandarin sounds rough.

Not a slight bit. Big part of oversea Chinese have Cantonese back ground( Which is the reason why many westerners believe Chinese is equal to Cantones). They of course support Cantonese. Beijing Mandarin can not represents standard Mandarin.

 

[REhorror]

Anyway, it was a nice discussion.
I think Cantonese vs Mandarin is like a classic part of China's North South divide, like Wing Chun vs. Baji guan or Southern Fist vs. Northern Kick.

 

[etylo]

Not a slight bit. Big part of oversea Chinese have Cantonese back ground( Which is the reason why many westerners believe Chinese is equal to Cantones). They of course support Cantonese. Beijing Mandarin can not represents standard Mandarin.

Beijing accent Mandrian is good and pleasing to hear too unless they use too many local vocabularies outsiders may find difficult to understand. Cantonese cant possibly represent the whole South China, it is only spoken in parts of two provinces.

 

[Brainsucker]

Cantonese was the language of the Canto-pop and HK movies which were the hit all over Asia, and the world. Jackie Chan, Bruce Lee and Jet Li hit movies were all in cantonese, if they really sound weird, the world would not accept it.

To this day, I think Mandarin version of some of the classic HK songs still cannot be compared to the original.
Like the Shanghai Bund song:
Cantonese version:

Mandarin version:

Mandarin really has so much sh, zh, and sounds really hoarse, like a horse hissing.

Well, most of older Chinese Indonesian from 1900 - 1950 studied in Chinese school in their youth. So when they spoke with their colleagues, they speak with Mandarin. Some others tend to speak a blend of Indonesian with Hokkien and Javanese. That's why in here (at least where I live), despite the younger generations can't speak Chinese, but they are more familiar with Mandarin, compared to Canton, Hakka, etc dialectic.

 

[REhorror]

Well, most of older Chinese Indonesian from 1900 - 1950 studied in Chinese school in their youth. So when they spoke with their colleagues, they speak with Mandarin. Some others tend to speak a blend of Indonesian with Hokkien. That's why in here (at least where I live), despite the younger generations can't speak Chinese, but they are more familiar with Mandarin, compared to Canton, Hakka, etc dialectic.

That's definitely a structural/institutional thing then.
Even now, it's hard to find a Cantonese school in Vietnam, much more schools for Mandarin.

 

[大汉奸柳传志]

Well, I guess beauty is really in the ears of the beholder.

for some reason I can't stand the sound of French, despite so many people consider it "the most pleasing language to the ears".

 

[Yaoudelizard]

Assimilation is a must to have a stable and strong nation, otherwise you are divided and fractured, creates social tensions.

Diversity is not a strength like the west claims. And yes, the west constantly pushes for assimilation and even complains if groups refuse to do so.

In my opinion a certain degree of assimilation is a must at the very least so you are compatible and can integrate with the wider society.

The west are hypocrites, they push for assimilation for themselves but division for others. Snakes truly.

 

[S10]

Yes, assimilation and melting pot should be the norm. China should remove all benefits specifically directed at ethnic minorities and re-designate every autonomous regions into provinces.

Anyway, it was a nice discussion.
I think Cantonese vs Mandarin is like a classic part of China's North South divide, like Wing Chun vs. Baji guan or Southern Fist vs. Northern Kick.

No, Cantonese is mostly limited to Guangdong only. The south is a lot bigger than just Guangdong

"Strict" south:
- Guangdong
- Guangxi

"Greater" south:
- Guangdong
- Guangxi
- Yunnan
- Fujian
- Hunan
- Hainan
- Taiwan

Anything ending with a "nan" literally means south.

 

[etylo]

Yes, assimilation and melting pot should be the norm. China should remove all benefits specifically directed at ethnic minorities and re-designate every autonomous regions into provinces.


No, Cantonese is mostly limited to Guangdong only. The south is a lot bigger than just Guangdong

"Strict" south:
- Guangdong
- Guangxi

"Greater" south:
- Guangdong
- Guangxi
- Yunnan
- Fujian
- Hunan
- Hainan
- Taiwan

Anything ending with a "nan" literally means south.

All provinces south of Yantgze river, more correctly south of Huai river and Qin mountains range are considered South China, covering slightly more than half of China.

 

[S10]

All provinces south of Yantgze river, more correctly south of Huai river and Qin mountains range are considered South China, covering slightly more than half of China.

Jiangnan and Huanan are different concepts.