Saudisation of Pakisan

[Developereo]

I, call for a singular education system in Pakistan.

We can do that in the cities but in the rural areas, where the feudal lord is king, we must get him to comply.

That's where the political rot comes into the picture -- this rotten crowd of rural feudal lords simply won't play ball and they are the ones who wield power in Pakistan since they are the ones who deliver votes to the big party bosses.

Dude, AtaTurk didn't kill the whole population. His problem was way bigger. He executed something in the range of 300,000 to 500,000. That worked wonderfully. All imams (check) Anything written in Arabic text (check) Anyone giving sermons without license (check)

Far too extreme.

That's not just my view; the EU is forcing Turkey to moderate its ridiculous anti-religion extremist stance.

 

[Hyperion]

I am saying it again. For such things use VX. It's clean and effective. All madrassas and mullahs will have to be wiped out to save rest of the people.

Our's is a country where even the car license plates and SIM's aren't regulated and recorded...a herculean task you have described!

Huge Madrassas are growing in the middle of Islamabad, with 15 foot walls topped with barbed wires, bearded boys manning the gates with sticks in hand, and iron grilled windows.

 

[Jango]

I am saying it again. For such things use VX. It's clean and effective. All madrassas and mullahs will have to be wiped out to save rest of the people.

Can't use VX in middle of H-8!!!

 

[Hyperion]

Yes you can, with very simple suppressors. Trust me.

Can't use VX in middle of H-8!!!

 

[Kompromat]

Dude, AtaTurk didn't kill the whole population. His problem was way bigger. He executed something in the range of 300,000 to 500,000. That worked wonderfully. All imams (check) Anything written in Arabic text (check) Anyone giving sermons without license (check)

The issue i have with Ataturk and Pakistan situation is that he had a country to liberate that was physically occupied. Turkish society had broken down and he had to re-invent a country out of it. Our problem is not even 10th of that. I am against killing people, unless they take up arms against the state and start killing others.

We can solve this problem within 15 years, if we have a proper strategy in place. Economics is booming, people have jobs and capitalism takes shape. We have our singular education system in place, imams are licensed to speak in public, all mosques are registered and their charity is regulated. Madrassas are a great NGO model and a vast number of them just provide a social service and have absolutely nothing to do with these idiots.

1: Singular Education System
2: All round monitory accountability of religious places and leaders.
3: Curb their foreign funding
4: Register Mosques and don't allow every tom dick and harry to start up one for his little incubator.
5: Monitor, processions, crackdown on hate speech.
6: Build the economy, spread employment and economic prosperity.

By having all of the above we would be able to have a society that will support social change and will be open minded enough to amend or even end the discriminatory claws in our constitution and tazeerat e Pakistan. We cannot bring change, once in a while. It will break down our society and if we go out killing people in the name of liberty, how would be any different from the folks killing people in the name of their blind faith?

 

[notsuperstitious]

All this is not easy to understand. My pakistani colleague who plays bollywood music while driving but changes channel when a song mentions Ali has a five year old son who told me he ''does not like music as its not good''.

All this is too confusing. If one does not keep it simple one is going to get infinitely confused. I see that confusion even in intelligent fellows like Armstrong.

 

[Ayush]

nice read hypey.

 

[Hyperion]

Don't you already see it, how confused bunch we all are?

All this is not easy to understand. My pakistani colleague who plays music while driving but changes when a song mentions Ali has a five year old son who told me he ''does not like music as its not good''.

All this is too confusing. If one does not keep it simple one is going to get infinitely confused. I see that confusion even in intelligent fellows like Armstrong.

 

[Developereo]

Anything written in Arabic text (check)
[...]
The beard and the hijab is like a virus which has spread to every cell of Pakistan's body

But I don't have a problem with beards or hijabs, nor do I consider them a "virus".

As for Arabic, I intend to learn Arabic this year so I can understand Islamic texts.

We must avoid extremist reactions on this side of the divide just as we want to quash extremism on the other side.

 

[Naya Pakistan]

In reality what we need is a very robust and proactive education policy which is not mired in Islamic sentiments. Education is an antidote to religious zealots. I am often forced into debates with over zealous religious nuts who think that they are better than me because of their views. What I often find is, that their views are not based on historic realities/context for example they will confuse the ottoman caliphate to the times of Hazrat Abu Bakr. This shows ignorance and that they haven't really studied Islam in depth but are merely repeating parrot fashion the sermons of their peers and mullahs who themselves are lacking in knowledge. If we can get our people educated then this will automatically change the fabric of our society.

 

[Kompromat]

@Hyperion Yara, Hijab, Beard etc is one's personal choice. If we are to spread liberty we cannot and must not curtail any attempts on behalf of our nation to practice their faith in a way they desire. We need to focus only and alone on the extremist elements, instead of waging a war on our own society.

 

[Hyperion]

Dude, I understand Arabic. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the Quran, it's the most perfect and balanced divine set of commandments. The problem is with Hadith and the Bedouin culture which has slowly creeped in and given rise to pseudo-Islamic-cultue, mind you not part of Islam!

I recommend that after learning arabic, try to understand The Quran from historical perspective. Dissect the timing of verses into three categories:

1. Before Muhammad.
2. Madni.
3. Makki.

After you have done that, delve into the reasoning and logic behind why Allah commanded what he commanded. Then read thoroughly about the culture and society during the above three mentioned eras (when you are doing this - forget about Quran, forget about Islam). Then read the Quran again. Then you and I will have a lengthy debate here.

But I don't have a problem with beards or hijabs, nor do I consider them a "virus".

As for Arabic, I intend to learn Arabic this year so I can understand Islamic texts.

We must avoid extremist reactions on this side of the divide just as we want to quash extremism on the other side.

 

[Hyperion]

Lala, once again, I am all for FREE WILL, freedom to express ones religion, any religion. Freedom to do whatever one wants within the confines of the law.

1. Someone want's to wear hijab? Wear it out of free will. However, not due to social pressure or any stigma, and hijab weares should have no right to sanction psychologically other who don't wear it.

2. Same goes for the beard.

Lala, you are one very bright dude, you know EXACTLY what I am saying. It will take me days upon days to preach both of those two points to others.

@Hyperion Yara, Hijab, Beard etc is one's personal choice. If we are to spread liberty we cannot and must not curtail any attempts on behalf of our nation to practice their faith in a way they desire. We need to focus only and alone on the extremist elements, instead of waging a war on our own society.

 

[mastaan]

Dude, I understand Arabic. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the Quran, it's the most perfect and balanced divine set of commandments. The problem is with Hadith and the Bedouin culture which has slowly creeped in and given rise to pseudo-Islamic-cultue, mind you not part of Islam!

I recommend that after learning arabic, try to understand The Quran from historical perspective. Dissect the timing of verses into three categories:

1. Before Muhammad.
2. Madni.
3. Makki.

After you have done that, delve into the reasoning and logic behind why Allah commanded what he commanded. Then read thoroughly about the culture and society during the above three mentioned eras (when you are doing this - forget about Quran, forget about Islam). Then read the Quran again. Then you and I will have a lengthy debate here.

A million % correct... It is the context of a different age that is being carried too far in a different age... Wish more people understood it and wish God had a mode to clarify what he meant!

 

[Developereo]

Dude, I understand Arabic. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the Quran, it's the most perfect and balanced divine set of commandments.

Understanding the historical context would be a bonus, but my first aim is to simply understand what the Quran, namaaz and other rituals' texts are actually saying.