Saudi Arabia's Treasure

[Sargon of Akkad]

@Sargon of Akkad

Hey, I didn't intend for thread to be religious discussion or about 'nation building', system of governance debate. It spiraled into that because that guys post. My post was emphasizing that unexpected events in Saudi Arabia will likely have big impact on the world, because of influence of Islam, which is home to Saudi Arabia, hence why I'm pointing it out. And no doubt would have an affect on rest of Muslim majority nations. So it's about recognizing the importance of the 'treasure' which Saudi Arabia holds, and if put to test, would yield something interesting and drastic that would mark a very crucial time in history. Many people are anticipating if Islam will evolve in similar manner as Christianity did in the past, but some are not so sure how it would play through, hence it's intriguing and we can only speculate.

What needs to evolve before anything else is Muslims themselves. Salvation comes through righteous deeds and staying on the right path. Most Muslims, whether regimes in power or individuals, do not do that nowadays. Either that or they are overshadowed by the loud minority.

As for reforming Islam. What in my opinion needs reform is how regimes and certain elements on all sides apply it. Not the core beliefs which are eternal and as logical and sensible as they were 1400 years ago.

Many of the problems in the Muslim world nowadays such as corruption, bad leadership, conflicts are not the fault of Islam or religion. During the Islamic Golden Age that lasted 500 years under the Abbasid Caliphate the Caliphate was the benchmark on all fronts for the world. It was an example to follow. As well as Al-Andalus. Nobody back then considered Islam to be a problem, rather the opposite. Even enemies respected Muslims and wrote praises about their conduct and societies.

In my opinion Islam is the most logical religion of all and the religion that makes the most sense.

However if religion will lose influence in the world as a whole then so be it. We cannot do anything to prevent that and we have no idea what will happen in 100 years time and we will not live to see it either.

Our priority should be to fix the current problems and continue to improve as a society and as individuals. Islam calls us to do just that.

How can anyone say that monotheism, piety, humbleness, seeking knowledge, calling for unity, charity, logic, welfare, fasting, a free will, seeking to do good deeds at all times, avoid greed and egoism, value family, etc. are bad values and values that do not harmonize with the modern society of today? I believe that those values are eternal.

As for KSA I feel that we as a society are moving in the right direction and improving rather than the opposite. As for regimes, they come and go. We have had 100's of dynasties in Arabia since time immortal. Some of the earliest recorded monarchs in the world ruled in Arabia. We survived them all. Everything has an end.

I believe in our people and region. I honestly have no respect for those who complain and complain without doing anything to change status quo for the better. Not saying that you are such a person but there are many such Muslims, unfortunately.

If we as Muslims would spend our time on better things instead of complaining we would have solved many of the problems by now.

Lol, I don't fear what an ex Muslim has to say. You're being paranoid.

It's just that it's annoying to see people boast about being ex Muslim/Christian/whatever in every post. Just telling ya it's weird.

Let him speak his mind as long as he is respectful.

 

[Falcon29]

What needs to evolve before anything else is Muslims themselves. Salvation comes through righteous deeds and staying on the right path. Most Muslims, whether regimes in power or individuals, do not do that nowadays. Either that or they are overshadowed by the loud minority.

Yes, that's what I'm referring to when I say 'Islam', the overall Islamic/Muslim world. Now my post was just referring to the upcoming future, a crucial period in the Islamic/Muslim world, that all religions have gone through. I believe that phase is approaching for Islam. I'm not asking for change or anything.

In my opinion Islam is the most logical religion of all and the religion that makes the most sense.

Same here.

However if religion will lose influence in the world as a whole then so be it. We cannot do anything to prevent that and we have no idea what will happen in 100 years time and we will not live to see it either.

Well this is essentially admission that it is man made, isn't it? So why are we suggested to follow strict moral/social/political standards if our scholars/people can not guarantee that the reality of an afterlife or a God? Islam has a big impact on peoples personal lives, because either their society dictates their lifestyle, their family may influence it, or simply they genuinely believed it. So these factors are all play a restrictive role in ones life, let alone the impact it has an the overall society, where it greatly hinders innovation and restricts personal freedom. And it contributes to thought processes that determine how Muslim society will function.

Islam isn't to blame, it's the scholars and the ones in power, who are disregarding Islam's code of conduct and moral standards, but nevertheless preach about following Islam to the masses, in order to retain influence over the masses. And they leave many Muslims confused.

How can anyone say that monotheism, piety, humbleness, seeking knowledge, calling for unity, charity, logic, welfare, fasting, a free will, seeking to do good deeds at all times, avoid greed and egoism, value family, etc. are bad values and values that do not harmonize with the modern society of today? I believe that those values are eternal.

You are citing the positive side, and for some Muslims, everything is positive, because they're living without restrictions, maybe their society or status in society helps them evade the moral conduct or judgmental evaluations by the public. So yeah, for such believers, swearing by the 'YOLO' lifestyle, it's not surprising why they don't see the problem.

Then you have those believers who manage to keep their affairs private, while in public emulate a pious person. And therefore Islam has as much impact on their lives, as the elections in Brazil do.

Those that believed Islam sincerely, can recognize there is something wrong with the Muslim community, that there is cheating, scandals, and corruption occurring, leading these sincere believers to question if it's worth it. But, we also can see how these outcomes influence people's mindset and actions, and the overall development/state of society.

I believe in our people and region. I honestly have no respect for those who complain and complain without doing anything to change status quo for the better. Not saying that you are such a person but there are many such Muslims, unfortunately.

If we as Muslims would spend our time on better things instead of complaining we would have solved many of the problems by now.

Good for you, the OP was just an observation/foresight into an major transition/era coming to the Muslim world. It's not a plea of any sort.

My opinion is scholars/imams play a big role, what they infuse in minds of people since they were young, definitely matters. And they have authority over what Islam is, ordinary Muslims don't have a say nor can they change the direction of it. Nor do they know what kind of change to seek, since Islam is taken literally, so we have to be right, that there is indeed a God and religious era approaching. Otherwise, we were wrong, repressed our community, indoctrinated them, sent many of them to their deaths, etc... etc.... And this has to be figured out soon. Otherwise the future is bleak.

 

[SALMAN F]

History is written for all to see and confirm what I wrote. Every historian and informed person knows this. Anyway as an anti-Arab Iranian I expect to see trolling from your side and posts of no value. I do not care the slightest however this is a serious thread so do not turn it into nonsense.



Bro, have you begun to follow some of the ancient pre-Abrahamic Semitic religions now or do you follow other Semitic Abrahamic religions such as Judaism or Christianity? Maybe something else entirely?



Very sad. What do you family say about this?



People can believe in what they want to as long as they do not harm others. You are still an Arab brother no matter your religion or ideology. There are atheists in KSA too.

However nevertheless I am sad on your behalf for such a decision.



That is your opinion and what you base that on I have no idea. Did you watch the videos I posted?

What happened? Just 1 year ago you were a very religious Shia Twelver.

Read about the Shafi'i madhhab.

You need to be exposed to Hijazi spiritualism and visit the Holy land. A visit to Karbala or Najaf will also help. We ALL have doubts at some points whether we admit it or not however continuous studies and righteous deeds will keep you on the right path.

My family don't know and I don't want them to be upset and I don't live with them right now

Anyway I don't want to talk about religion in this thread

 

[Sargon of Akkad]

Yes, that's what I'm referring to when I say 'Islam', the overall Islamic/Muslim world. Now my post was just referring to the upcoming future, a crucial period in the Islamic/Muslim world, that all religions have gone through. I believe that phase is approaching for Islam. I'm not asking for change or anything.



Same here.



Well this is essentially admission that it is man made, isn't it? So why are we suggested to follow strict moral/social/political standards if our scholars/people can not guarantee that the reality of an afterlife or a God? Islam has a big impact on peoples personal lives, because either their society dictates their lifestyle, their family may influence it, or simply they genuinely believed it. So these factors are all play a restrictive role in ones life, let alone the impact it has an the overall society, where it greatly hinders innovation and restricts personal freedom. And it contributes to thought processes that determine how Muslim society will function.

Islam isn't to blame, it's the scholars and the ones in power, who are disregarding Islam's code of conduct and moral standards, but nevertheless preach about following Islam to the masses, in order to retain influence over the masses. And they leave many Muslims confused.



You are citing the positive side, and for some Muslims, everything is positive, because they're living without restrictions, maybe their society or status in society helps them evade the moral conduct or judgmental evaluations by the public. So yeah, for such believers, swearing by the 'YOLO' lifestyle, it's not surprising why they don't see the problem.

Then you have those believers who manage to keep their affairs private, while in public emulate a pious person. And therefore Islam has as much impact on their lives, as the elections in Brazil do.

Those that believed Islam sincerely, can recognize there is something wrong with the Muslim community, that there is cheating, scandals, and corruption occurring, leading these sincere believers to question if it's worth it. But, we also can see how these outcomes influence people's mindset and actions, and the overall development/state of society.




Good for you, the OP was just an observation/foresight into an major transition/era coming to the Muslim world. It's not a plea of any sort.

My opinion is scholars/imams play a big role, what they infuse in minds of people since they were young, definitely matters. And they have authority over what Islam is, ordinary Muslims don't have a say nor can they change the direction of it. Nor do they know what kind of change to seek, since Islam is taken literally, so we have to be right, that there is indeed a God and religious era approaching. Otherwise, we were wrong, repressed our community, indoctrinated them, sent many of them to their deaths, etc... etc.... And this has to be figured out soon. Otherwise the future is bleak.

Fair enough.

Why is it an admission of religion/Islam being man-made? It is merely a honest observation based on history and human interaction. We as humans have a free will to decide how we want to live our lives. Islam started as something "strange" (meaning it had few adherents) and Prophet Muhammad (saws) prophesied that Islam will become a "strange" phenomenon again. Meaning that there will be many followers who call themselves Muslim but the number of Muslims who will follow the teachings of Islam will be limited once again.

Who says that you have to follow any Sheikhs or scholars blindly? There are good and bad scholars just as there are good and bad Muslims. You have been blessed with an intellect and a free will and everything that you want to research in search for the truth is available for you and everyone else who is interested in seeking that truth. Depending on what they define as the truth.

Islam, like any other religion and ideology, has been and is misused by rulers and individuals for their own gains and other agendas that have little to do with what Islam teaches. That has almost always been the case and this is merely human nature and it follows the pattern of previous Prophets and their struggles with past societies. Do you think that it was any different say 200 years ago? It was not.

Anyway there is a key difference between Islam and Muslims.

What we witness today of problems in the Muslim world was also witnessed by our ancestors however that did not make them leave Islam. Neither should we.

Ordinary Muslims have a free will as you and I have. I could not care less what some cleric in say Tajikistan has to say about x or y. I have all the equipment I need to follow Islam as it was supposed to be followed. Studying and seeking to be righteous will always get you closer to God.

My family don't know and I don't want them to be upset and I don't live with them right now

Anyway I don't want to talk about religion in this thread

Ok. I was just curious since your change was radical which surprised me. Anyway we cannot discuss anything if you do not want to discuss it. Your choice.

 

[EgyptianAmerican]

@Sargon of Akkad

Hey, I didn't intend for thread to be religious discussion or about 'nation building', system of governance debate. It spiraled into that because that guys post. My post was emphasizing that unexpected events in Saudi Arabia will likely have big impact on the world, because of influence of Islam, which is home to Saudi Arabia, hence why I'm pointing it out. And no doubt would have an affect on rest of Muslim majority nations. So it's about recognizing the importance of the 'treasure' which Saudi Arabia holds, and if put to test, would yield something interesting and drastic that would mark a very crucial time in history. Many people are anticipating if Islam will evolve in similar manner as Christianity did in the past, but some are not so sure how it would play through, hence it's intriguing and we can only speculate.

Why didn't you say that in your original post? Why have 5 paragraphs of Jargon then tell us this in one?

 

[SOHEIL]

History is written for all to see and confirm what I wrote. Every historian and informed person knows this. Anyway as an anti-Arab Iranian I expect to see trolling from your side and posts of no value. I do not care the slightest however this is a serious thread so do not turn it into nonsense.

LOL

 

[OldenWisdom...قول بزرگ]

Saudi Arabia has little to do with progression of Islam. In fact the peninsula as a whole had very little if any significance for centuries. Many of the most prominent Islamic jurists and scholars came from Syria and Egypt. In fact much later when Abdul Wahab gained significance He also took his cue from Ibn Taymiyah from Syria. Islam is not in danger as many say as Lord will show Light to whom He willeth. When Hulegu attacked and destroyed Baghdad(the largest and most advanced city of its time), that was the will of Allah swt historians note there was nothing between Baghdad and Mecca that could have stopped him of destroying the holy Cities. Yet it was Hulegu's own cousin who embraced Islam and brought to end the devastation on Muslims by Mongols. The Last bits of their army were annihilated by Egyptians. Back to the topic Saudi Arabia's significance to Islam is even less as it is Syria that is more important in the end days as per ahadith. So I'd say at this point as ever it is incumbent upon Muslims to learn the faith and remain steadfast.

 

[EgyptianAmerican]

Iraqis were not Arabs nor spoke Arabic before Islam. Shameless people should stop stealing other county's history.

Syrians, Egyptians, Libyans ditto.

Sargon's Kingdom used a Semitic language.

"Sargon of Akkad (Akkadian Šarru-ukīn or Šarru-kēn; sometimes known as "Sargon the Great"[4]) was the first ruler of the Semitic-speaking Akkadian Empire, known for his conquests of the Sumerian city-states in the 24th to 23rd centuries BC.[3]"

"Semitic |səˈmidik| adjective1 relating to or denoting a family of languages that includes Hebrew, Arabic, and Aramaic and certain ancient languages such as Phoenician and Akkadian, constituting the main subgroup of the Afro-Asiatic family.2 relating to the peoples who speak the Semitic languages, especially Hebrew and Arabic."
-dictionary






(Some would Place Egypt with the Semitics, I think it's a Mix)

They may not have used Arabic but they are closely connected blood-wise. Right Now Syrians,Egyptians,Iraqis all have blood ties to Arabs and are ethnically and culturally Arab.

Even though a lot of dumb Facists or retarded Anti-Muslim citizens of those respective countries would love to say otherwise.

 

[Aramagedon]

Sargon's Kingdom used a Semitic language.

"Sargon of Akkad (Akkadian Šarru-ukīn or Šarru-kēn; sometimes known as "Sargon the Great"[4]) was the first ruler of the Semitic-speaking Akkadian Empire, known for his conquests of the Sumerian city-states in the 24th to 23rd centuries BC.[3]"

"Semitic |səˈmidik| adjective1 relating to or denoting a family of languages that includes Hebrew, Arabic, and Aramaic and certain ancient languages such as Phoenician and Akkadian, constituting the main subgroup of the Afro-Asiatic family.2 relating to the peoples who speak the Semitic languages, especially Hebrew and Arabic."
-dictionary






(Some would Place Egypt with the Semitics, I think it's a Mix)

They may not have used Arabic but they are closely connected blood-wise. Right Now Syrians,Egyptians,Iraqis all have blood ties to Arabs and are ethnically and culturally Arab.

Even though a lot of dumb Facists or retarded Anti-Muslim citizens of those respective countries would love to say otherwise.

• They were Iraqi (Nesopotamian).
• 
  
• Your images themselves tell the truth.
• 
  
• Afroasiatic languages belong to post-Islamic era not pre-Islamic era.

It's disgusting a saudi put picture of a Mesopotamian king while there is no connection between Mesopotamians and bedouin arabs that lived in Yemen and later Najd and Hijaz.

 

[EgyptianAmerican]

• They were Iraqi (Nesopotamian).
• 
  
• Your images themselves tell the truth.
• 
  
• Afroasiatic languages belong to post-Islamic era not pre-Islamic era.

It's disgusting a saudi put picture of a Mesopotamian king while there is no connection between Mesopotamians and bedouin arabs that lived in Yemen and later Najd and Hijaz.

You clearly know nothing.

"The earliest written evidence of an Afroasiatic language is an Ancient Egyptian inscription of c. 3400 BC (5,400 years ago).[17] Symbols on Gerzean (Naqada II) pottery resembling Egyptian hieroglyphs date back to c. 4000 BC, suggesting an earlier possible dating. This gives us a minimum date for the age of Afroasiatic. However, Ancient Egyptian is highly divergent from Proto-Afroasiatic (Trombetti 1905: 1–2), and considerable time must have elapsed in between them. Estimates of the date at which the Proto-Afroasiatic language was spoken vary widely. They fall within a range between approximately 7,500 BC (9,500 years ago), and approximately 16,000 BC (18,000 years ago). According to Igor M. Diakonoff (1988: 33n), Proto-Afroasiatic was spoken c. 10,000 BC. Christopher Ehret (2002: 35–36) asserts that Proto-Afroasiatic was spoken c. 11,000 BC at the latest, and possibly as early as c. 16,000 BC. These dates are older than those associated with most other proto-languages."

Far older then Islam,


"In addition to languages spoken today, Afroasiatic includes several important ancient languages, such as Ancient Egyptian, Akkadian, Biblical Hebrew, and Old Aramaic. It is uncertain when or where the original homeland of the Afroasiatic family existed. Proposed locations include North Africa, the Horn of Africa, the Eastern Sahara, and the Levant."

Not Post-Islamic, it's Pre-Islamic Hence why hebrew and Aramaic is included.

"The most widely spoken Afroasiatic language is Arabic, including literary Arabic and the spoken colloquial varieties. It has around 200 to 230 million native speakers concentrated primarily in the Middle East, North Africa, the Horn of Africa, and Malta.[6] Tamazight and other Berber varieties are spoken in Morocco, Algeria, Libya, Tunisia, northern Mali, and northern Niger by about 25 to 35 million people."

"
Ancient Semitic-speaking peoples[edit]
Main article: Ancient Semitic-speaking peoples
There are several locations proposed as possible sites for prehistoric origins of Semitic-speaking peoples: Mesopotamia, The Levant, Mediterranean, the Arabian Peninsula, and North Africa.[18]"
Map showing the historical distribution of Semitic (yellow) and other Afro-Asiatic language speakers about 1000 - 2000 years ago.

Need to read up on your Languages my Friend.

Sorry but he and his people were Arabs or at least closely connected to Arabs like my people.

 

[Baybars Han]

Saudi Arabia has little to do with progression of Islam. In fact the peninsula as a whole had very little if any significance for centuries. Many of the most prominent Islamic jurists and scholars came from Syria and Egypt. In fact much later when Abdul Wahab gained significance He also took his cue from Ibn Taymiyah from Syria. Islam is not in danger as many say as Lord will show Light to whom He willeth. When Hulegu attacked and destroyed Baghdad(the largest and most advanced city of its time), that was the will of Allah swt historians note there was nothing between Baghdad and Mecca that could have stopped him of destroying the holy Cities. Yet it was Hulegu's own cousin who embraced Islam and brought to end the devastation on Muslims by Mongols. The Last bits of their army were annihilated by Egyptians. Back to the topic Saudi Arabia's significance to Islam is even less as it is Syria that is more important in the end days as per ahadith. So I'd say at this point as ever it is incumbent upon Muslims to learn the faith and remain steadfast.

Berke Khan (ruler of Golden Horde) didn't want hulagu to attack those places and in fact they had war. Berke Khan was a turk who became Muslim. It was baibars and qutuz who stopped the Mongols going further and they were both Turks. Just a little correction for you.

 

[EgyptianAmerican]

@EgyptianAmerican

THESE PICTURES TELL US PEOPLE ARE ARABIZED AFTER ISLAM. THAT'S IT. Good Luck

J2 and J1 dna maps:

What are these pictures? Arabized? We were already Arabized before Islam, It is only highlighted AFTER we joined Islam.

Iraqis,Syrians,Lebanese,Egyptians are all Arabs Ethnically and Culturally, can't change that.









Why do you hate Arabs so much? We did not choose to be enemies, why is there tensions between our peoples? Are we all not Muslims? Are we all not Middle eastern? Why not be friends?

 

[OldenWisdom...قول بزرگ]

Berke Khan (ruler of Golden Horde) didn't want hulagu to attack those places and in fact they had war. Berke Khan was a turk who became Muslim. It was baibars and qutuz who stopped the Mongols going further and they were both Turks. Just a little correction for you.

I didn't want to go in the detail on a side note. The point however was that Between Baghdad and Mecca no Muslim force was strong enough to stop Mongols. Thank You for the note.

 

[Baybars Han]

Expect that Mongols only managed to capture Arab land solely in Iraq and parts of Syria for 2 years before they were defeated by the allied Arab and Turkic forces.

Ever heard about Ibn Taymiyyah (ra)? He described those times perfectly and was shaped by those times.

On the other hand Mongols pillaged modern-day Turkey and especially Central Asia and Iran much, much more and ruled the two last places for centuries. Mongol presence in the Arab world lasted 2 years only! From 1258 until 1260 and only involved Iraq and parts of Syria moreover.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongol_invasion_of_Central_Asia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongol_conquest_of_Khwarezmia

Not sure where you were taught history. In fact after the Mongols were defeated they became slaves like many other foreigners who lost on the battlefield. They were seen as uncivilized barbarians and rightly so.

.

There was nobody that could have stopped the Mongols if there were united. They took over the world like nothing ever seen in history, but their downfall was very quick too. Dont take it personally they could have taken anywhere. Their archers, their tactics was great most of the time. Im not an expert but if they was united and Golden Horde(Turks)Berke and Ilkhanate and all the rest was together there was nothing that could have stopped it.

 

[Aramagedon]

Go eat donkey brain and inject more farsi opium.

Speaking about food, Arab cuisine is much more diverse, famous, well-known and older than Farsi cuisine so you cannot compete on that front either.

I know arab cuisine is fresh camel piss and lizard...


Idiot Tazi change your avatar you are not even sh!t of Mesopotamians and Persians.