Safe nuclear does exist, and China is leading the way with thorium

[Skull and Bones]

Hey.....
No one's talking about wind power, geothermal energy and all.
These are by far the cleanest and cheapest methods for producing clean energy. I don't know about geothermal power, but cost of per unit of electricity from wind energy is around Rs 4, which is cheap considering the price of per unit from coal power plant is around Rs 2.5 to Rs 3.5. And solar energy is around is Rs 9-11.

 

[below_freezing]

Wind is unstable though you can use it to electrolyze water I guess, then burn it. The instability of wind is a major problem for its incorporation, I think.

Geothermal, doesn't that need volcanoes or something? I think other than Japan and Phillipines, all of mainland asia doesn't have active volcanoes!

Besides, wind takes up space, needs transmission lines, is unstable and can never be a realistic major power source. Solar can, by itself, power the world, once costs come down (and they will). Wind's costs will never come down realistically, but solar's can, since it's just a process engineering problem and not a physical limitation.

 

[Vinod2070]

I agree. Solar is the way forward, along with nuclear energy.

Watching the video shared by Marshal earlier. Really interesting and also shows how foolish people who matter have been all these decades!

They spent trillions trying to secure that ME energy while Thorium could have done the job so much more easily.

 

[below_freezing]

I agree. Solar is the way forward, along with nuclear energy.

Watching the video shared by Marshal earlier. Really interesting and also shows how foolish people who matter have been all these decades!

They spent trillions trying to secure that ME energy while Thorium could have done the job so much more easily.

Getting ME energy isn't just about getting energy for yourself; it's also about denying energy security to potential competitors and allies. East Asia consumes most Persian Gulf oil. The US uses ME oil to squeeze China and India, as well as remind South Korea and Japan, 2 countries with no natural petroleum reserves, who is boss.

 

[Vinod2070]

Search for...

"+LFTR +1000MW"
"+LFTR +desalination"
"+'Thorium Molten Salt Reactor' +1000MW"
"+'Molten Salt Reactor' +desalination"

...also watch the Youtube videos on LFTR nuclear technology. The Google Tech Talks presentation is over 1 hour but very very interesting. I suggest you watch the 2 long versions about LFTR since they are much more illuminating. If you want to skip to the guts of it, watch this Youtube summary video instead...

...It mentions the costs involved which point to a huge reduction in energy costs as well as how much actual thorium fuel is needed to fuel these power plants. The combination of tiny amounts of required thorium fuel together with its abundance in the Earth's crust basically indicates a near inexhaustible fuel source that would last almost 10000 years if every Human Being consumes American levels of energy and believe it or not hundreds of thousands of years if lower thorium concentrations are mined, such as granite bedrock, which would be economically viable when the time came for it.

Amazing! Explains why it has not been adapted so far as well.

I am surprised why Indian scientists didn't go for it when we had such emphasis on Thorium for decades. Our approach seems more long term and more expansive and less efficient.

So the corporate greed is now going to bite the big global majors back and they will scramble to adapt this. I guess China would capture the market before they can ever do that.

 

[Vinod2070]

Getting ME energy isn't just about getting energy for yourself; it's also about denying energy security to potential competitors and allies. East Asia consumes most Persian Gulf oil. The US uses ME oil to squeeze China and India, as well as remind South Korea and Japan, 2 countries with no natural petroleum reserves, who is boss.

Well, to be fair USA gets only about 12% of its oil from the ME and it has not really stopped the supplies to anyone so far. But yes, the potential always exists.

If petroleum crude is only used for petrochems and not for energy, a lot more nations will be self sufficient or nearly self sufficient and a lot of world problems will go away on their own.

The big oil can go take a hike if they don't like it!

This is really exciting and congrates to China for leading the way. Even though it is an old technology created by the Americans, it is China that can be credited with seeing its potential and making it real.

 

[below_freezing]

Once trolls like Speeder, Gambit, JayATL, Rolling Stones and Tiki are gone, we can get along quite nicely =)

hate trolls

Petroleum is a whole different story. Nothing else gives MOBILE energy the way it does. Not fuel cells, not batteries, nothing. That's why public transport is the key, it can be completely electrified supplied by power from central power stations.

This is a major problem for WAR FIGHTING because every plane, tank, etc runs on petroleum.

Maybe with advances in fuel cell technology, we can make everything fully electric but I'm not confident.

What will fuel planes? Liquefied coal?

 

[Vinod2070]

Once trolls like Speeder, Gambit, JayATL, Rolling Stones and Tiki are gone, we can get along quite nicely =)

hate trolls

Petroleum is a whole different story. Nothing else gives MOBILE energy the way it does. Not fuel cells, not batteries, nothing. That's why public transport is the key, it can be completely electrified supplied by power from central power stations.

This is a major problem for WAR FIGHTING because every plane, tank, etc runs on petroleum.

Maybe with advances in fuel cell technology, we can make everything fully electric but I'm not confident.

What will fuel planes? Liquefied coal?

Yes, petroleum is very convenient for mobility but decent electric or hybrids with infrastructure for charging the electric batteries is not too hard to create.

After all the big oil created such an elaborate system for oil distribution as well.

The additional benefit is the energy recovery that is possible in electric/hybrid vehicles. That can be scaled quickly if the corporate greed is taken care of.

This is a major problem for WAR FIGHTING because every plane, tank, etc runs on petroleum.

Yes, but war fighting doesn't need the 20 million barrels/day!

We can all produce or buy enough for that purpose.

 

[newdelhinsa]

From Wiki:





Surprising why the world didn't catch on to this earlier!

fissile material for nuclear weapons, my friend.

 

[Vinod2070]

fissile material for nuclear weapons, my friend.

That was true for USA and USSR only till the 60s.

After that it has been entrenched lobbies and corporate greed. A shame, really.

At this point, there is no reason for any nuclear power to use nuclear power reactors for producing fissile material for weapons. We all have sufficient stock or can create it in few dedicated reactors custom built for the purpose.

 

[Skull and Bones]

Wind is unstable though you can use it to electrolyze water I guess, then burn it. The instability of wind is a major problem for its incorporation, I think.

Geothermal, doesn't that need volcanoes or something? I think other than Japan and Phillipines, all of mainland asia doesn't have active volcanoes!

Besides, wind takes up space, needs transmission lines, is unstable and can never be a realistic major power source. Solar can, by itself, power the world, once costs come down (and they will). Wind's costs will never come down realistically, but solar's can, since it's just a process engineering problem and not a physical limitation.

When we talk about wind energy, why do we think only this

Why not these?

The wind energy near the surface is irregular and erratic and depends on several factors like exposure to sun rays and seasonal variations. But at an altitude there's a stable wind flow and it's not dependent on seasons, and its same everywhere. So there's lots of energy for the tapping. 3 or 4 of these high altitude wind turbines can meet the energy requirements of a village.
Here's a graph which shows the power Vs altitude.

And wind turbines will be quite efficient for countries like India, USA, China coz' we are blessed with vast stretch of coastal areas, where the wind flow is constant through the year. All we need is to tweak the design of conventional wind turbines to get the benefits of sea breeze and land breeze. An example of efficient design is given below.

 

[S10]

Hey.....
No one's talking about wind power, geothermal energy and all.
These are by far the cleanest and cheapest methods for producing clean energy. I don't know about geothermal power, but cost of per unit of electricity from wind energy is around Rs 4, which is cheap considering the price of per unit from coal power plant is around Rs 2.5 to Rs 3.5. And solar energy is around is Rs 9-11.

The largest wind farm in the world can provide power for less than 500 households under optimal wind condition, far from enough to be anything of substantial use. It takes up a large amount of cleared space and power generated are unstable.

As far as geothermal goes, there is the problem of site selection and it can be dangerous as well. Since you are drilling deep into the earth's unstable fault zones for heat, there is a large chance you might release harmful elements buried deep under ground into the air. There is fear that drilling deep into a fault zone may result in increased seismic activities. Also, heat loss with geothermal plants are significant, so turbines generally are not running at an efficient capacity. For example, Iceland is quite abundant with geothermal sources, yet it can only provide about 40% of ther power needs. The only places suitable in China for such plants are in Tibet, Sichuan and Yunnan provinces, not exactly suitable for a country like China.

Nuclear fission reactors, hydro dams, fossil fuel and coal will still be China's primary sources for power generation in the next 30 years. Wind, solar and geothermal can be used to supplement these main sources.

 

[Skull and Bones]

@S10
Go through my previous post on wind energy, I've posted the defects and its solutions in a brief way. It may look a far fetched, but worth a try for developing countries like India and China. And an efficient way to reduce our carbon footprints.

And geothermal energy can be only tapped in region where there's volcanic activity is a myth, there's huge geothermal activity going on underneath where you are standing right now, i mean its everywhere. While there's very little drilling required for active volcanic regions that makes it quite efficient, but it requires deep drilling for any other stable regions which makes it inefficient and there's a chance of 20% error while drilling.

 

[CardSharp]

One speaker in Marshalls video said that uranium plants are sold the same way razors are sold here in north america, ie the razor refills cost much more than the actual razor, or the uranium fuel contracts are more profitable than the building of the plants. Contractors are willing to build plants at a loss if only to lock fuel contracts.

The established nuclear industry doesn't see any profit in the thorium cycle and in democratic countries with entrenched interests and lobbyist problem this means no politic will to take on the thorium cycle

 

[Han Patriot]

Take it easy, mate. You want to say you are the superman with IQ of 140+?

I Agree.

All the technical books I and you read are written by Chinese authors, electronics was invented by them, E=MC2 was a Chinese discovery, Heisenberg uncertainty law is also Chinese, 60% of the Nobels are won by the Chinese, search Engine was invented by them, so too the internet, the mobile phone, the PC, the nuclear sciences, the Bernoulli's theorem, the 0, the decimal system, the aircraft carrier, the submarine, Sputnik was a Chinese satellite.

It was China that pumped $2 trillion in communication technologies during the DotCom boom that revolutionized communication everywhere, not the USA. All latest technologies are coming from China now.

You are not catching up on all these, you innovated them and invented them.

You are the innovation capital of the world and I salute you.

Ah, the endless babbling. I have seen this many times, whenever my Indian counterpart loses an argument they start babbling.

It is even funnier when you see two Indians argue.

Anyway, I am no genius nor superman. Stick to the discussion. The Chinese strategy had always been beg, steal, borrow, copy, learn, innovate and lastly invent.


Learn to walk before you run. This is the fundamental principle. You can see the Chinese effort paying off now. High speed rail, manned space, nuclear, telecoms, submarines. Until it reaches a saturation point when there aren't anymore new tech to absorb. You invent.

Example, Fe batteries by BYD, one of the world's most advanced, and I am not boasting. 4G telecoms by Huawei, also one of the tops in the world.