Safe nuclear does exist, and China is leading the way with thorium

[Vinod2070]

Wow just when we were getting back on topic Vinod. Thanks

Just for that buffoon. You guys please ignore.

 

[tanlixiang28776]

Yes, I meant you will be dependent on Western nations for the supply.

But I guess the CCP must have thought through this.

We'll use the better alternative and if supplies are cut we'll have to make do with uranium.

We will of course create a strategic stockpile.

 

[Vinod2070]

We'll use the better alternative and if supplies are cut we'll have to make do with uranium.

We will of course create a strategic stockpile.

Understand that but I am not sure you can use Uranium in a Thorium reactor! Or is it going to be dual purpose?

 

[tanlixiang28776]

Understand that but I am not sure you can use Uranium in a Thorium reactor! Or is it going to be dual purpose?

Of course not.

We still have many Uranium reactors planned and in service.

 

[Vinod2070]

Cool. Good to see others also taking interest in the Thorium cycle and reactors.

India has this three stage cycle with PWHRs (stage 1), FBR (stage II) and Advanced nuclear power system (stage III).

China's strategy appears to be different. Would be great if we can compare the two and see the pros and cons of each.

 

[gubbi]

Also, Thorium produces only Alpha particles which can be blocked easily with a sheet of paper, meaning Thorium can be handled easily.

There are many different isotopes of Thorium with varied half-lives. There is no need to separate these isotopes, unlike for Uranium or Plutonium, for use in a reactor.

India's interest in using Thorium was to generate Uranium-233 - an element/material which was not available to India's nuclear program. Small quantity of Uranium is generated by mixing Thorium with Plutonium and this can be extracted and purified to weapons grade Uranium. That was India's interest.

China OTOH, uses thorium (thorium tetrafluoride) as a blanket for Uranium core based reactors. This provides a very reliable material to convert the Uranium tetrafluoride to Uranium hexafluoride by passing fluoride gas through the thorium blanket. The Uranium hexafluoride gas is collected, reduced back to Uranium tetra fluoride and pumped back into the reactor core. This handling of gases reduces the temperature and helps maintain temperatures, making these reactors very stable.

Anyone with more knowledge can correct me if I am wrong here.

 

[Vinod2070]

From Wiki:

Thorium, as well as uranium and plutonium, can be used as fuel in a nuclear reactor. A thorium fuel cycle offers several potential advantages over a uranium fuel cycle including much greater abundance on Earth, superior physical and nuclear properties of the fuel, enhanced proliferation resistance, and reduced nuclear waste production. Nobel laureate Carlo Rubbia at CERN (European Organization for Nuclear Research), has worked on developing the use of thorium as a cheap, clean and safe alternative to uranium in reactors. Rubbia states that a tonne of thorium can produce as much energy as 200 tonnes of uranium, or 3,500,000 tonnes of coal.[14] One of the early pioneers of the technology was U.S. physicist Alvin Weinberg at Oak Ridge National Laboratory in Tennessee, who helped develop a working nuclear plant using liquid fuel in the 1960s.

Some countries, including India, are now investing in research to build thorium-based nuclear reactors. Anil Kakodkar, chairman of the Indian Atomic Energy Commission, said in 2009 that his country has a "long-term objective goal of becoming energy-independent based on its vast thorium resources."[16] in May 2010, researchers from Ben-Gurion University in Israel and Brookhaven National Laboratory in New York, received a three-year Energy Independence Partnership Grant to collaborate on the development of a self-sustainable fuel cycle for light water reactors.[17] According to the Israeli nuclear engineer, Eugene Shwageraus, their goal is a self-sustaining reactor, "meaning one that will produce and consume about the same amounts of fuel," which is not possible with uranium.[17]

Surprising why the world didn't catch on to this earlier!

 

[gubbi]

From Wiki:

Surprising why the world didn't catch on to this earlier!

Powers-that-be were more interested in generating weapons grade Uranium/Plutonium than mere power. Military applications triumphed other applications. Now that, that matter has been taken care of, they can concentrate on more efficient, safe and greener means of power generation.

 

[tanlixiang28776]

Powers-that-be were more interested in generating weapons grade Uranium/Plutonium than mere power. Military applications triumphed other applications. Now that, that matter has been taken care of, they can concentrate on more efficient, safe and greener means of power generation.

Exactly stockpiling enough weapons to destroy the world hundreds of times over in their pissing contest was far more important.

 

[Vinod2070]

Powers-that-be were more interested in generating weapons grade Uranium/Plutonium than mere power. Military applications triumphed other applications. Now that, that matter has been taken care of, they can concentrate on more efficient, safe and greener means of power generation.

OK. That was done decades back.

USA/USSR have been talking SALT since the sixties. They had all the weapons they needed to kill all the world tens of times since then.

Still no one pursued Thorium for all these decades except India and now China!

 

[gubbi]

OK. That was done decades back.

USA/USSR have been talking SALT since the sixties. They had all the weapons they needed to kill all the world tens of times since then.

Still no one pursued Thorium for all these decades except India and now China!

The main reason was the lack of military applications of thorium based reactors. Funding dried up as a result. Lot of problems were left unsolved then, which is still the case even today.

Secondly, with large funds available, Uranium based reactors became more efficient and reliable. So it became easier to concentrate on Uranium based reactors than Thorium based.

Lastly, India lacked Uranium deposits while Thorium was abundantly available. Hence India thought of using Thorium to generate Uranium and collect it for weapons program. Hence the double interest for India. The Chinese program is looking at a cheaper, greener and more efficient power source (they already have a robust nuclear weapons program) and TMSRs seem to be the answer, for now.

 

[Huan]

I will place my big bet on China's future thorium reactors. No hard feelings India.

 

[below_freezing]

Thorium extraction process from Monazit ore.

This is the type of things I like to see

No need to feel ashamed, India is indeed ahead of us in civil nuclear technology because it was sanctioned. For small countries, sanctions mean death but for large countries, sanctions may actually help, especially highly specific ones. This is why even though our electronics and aerospace industries are ahead of India's, our civil nuclear program is behind. We should strive to use liquid thorium reactors to catch up to India.

 

[S10]

As of now, current Chinese reactors are all of Gen II and Gen III designs, significantly safer than the Gen I ones in Fukushima plant in Japan. However, I do see a problem with China's nuclear development strategy. They are importing designs from way too many sources which may cause maintenance/logistical problems for operators. Off the top of my head, I can name American AP1000, Russian VVER, European EPR, Canadian CANDU, French CP1 and Chinese CPR-1000/CNP-600.

I think they should stick to one design and go with it.

 

[Hafizzz]

Is it true that india has one of the largest thorium deposits in the world ?

FALSE !!!

Where is the world largest thorium deposits found?
Answers.com - Where is the world largest thorium deposits found

estimates in tonnes (2010)
Thorium - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia