SAC - FC-31 Grey Falcon Stealth aircraft for PAF : Updates & Debate

[ProudPak]

I was told last year by the same source which told me about Pakistans purchase of 40 J-10CEs that the PAF had also purchased a dozen J-20 fighter jets.

No one believed me since the last 6 months when I said that the first 2 squadrons are expected to arrive by the end of the year but it surprises me that might source also mention the purchase of a dozen J-20s and was adamant about it.

It may be more likely that the PAF may be purchasing a dozen J-31/J35 rather than J20 but my source stood by his word. So far his own sources have been on point.

There would be value in the PAF purchasing a few dozen J-31/J-35 before maybe eventually starting its own production, but the J20 would be of immense value for the PAF and they might have concluded that a few dozen (24) might be reasonable to purchase (in batches of 12)?

Who is your source? Job etc? And why would your source give you secret info?
No j10 and no j20 are coming period...this is bs.
Remember we had hundreds of pages on Pakistan getting f16 block 70 started by an Arab with insider info...couple of guys called him out and he has since left the forum. All lies

 

[Shabi1]

I was told last year by the same source which told me about Pakistans purchase of 40 J-10CEs that the PAF had also purchased a dozen J-20 fighter jets.

No one believed me since the last 6 months when I said that the first 2 squadrons are expected to arrive by the end of the year but it surprises me that might source also mention the purchase of a dozen J-20s and was adamant about it.

It may be more likely that the PAF may be purchasing a dozen J-31/J35 rather than J20 but my source stood by his word. So far his own sources have been on point.

There would be value in the PAF purchasing a few dozen J-31/J-35 before maybe eventually starting its own production, but the J20 would be of immense value for the PAF and they might have concluded that a few dozen (24) might be reasonable to purchase (in batches of 12)?

There was a recent picture of a PAF ZDK-03 in China with crew and poster claimed they are being discreetly upgraded for more work in PAF. This indicates PAF is planning on greater reliance on Chinese platforms/missiles for future engagements as PAF used Erieyes to guide AMRAAMs on the F-16s.

Until J-10s actually land and show up in PAF colors, the J-10s are coming has been so much said that should be taken with skepticism. Its been a year and we only have 3 pictures of JF-17 B3 so I doubt if they can keep such a tight lid on JF-17 any one with knowledge will actually share anything until we see it flying in 23rd March Parade.

 

[sal29]

Just rambling .... Keeping in mind AZM project and discussing state of R&D in Pakistan

As per my experience armed forces (only had experience with army) have no clue how R&D works. Or it could be that they want to remain oblivious by choice. Real core expertise will be developed by private sector (less red tape overall) but private sector requires funding not just for final manufacturing of the product but also for R&D. In my experience they are willing to buy the final version but are not willing to fund the R&D part and have unrealistic expectations on costs, function and time to market. They also cannot grasp the concept of incremental changes to improve. The private sector cannot invest itself in these kinds of venture as first they don't guarantee that they will buy the final product and as most of these products are bespoke, it cant be sold to other customers easily. The government and armed forces also have no policy to develop the secondary industries that will be required for projects like AZM. For example we will need industry for military grade PCB manufacturing in private sector (could also product consumer products to decrease operating costs) and electronic component distributors (there is no presence of big distributors like digikey, arrow etc), easy access (duty free) to electronic equipment like RF analyzers, oscilloscopes, spectrum analyzers etc (we cant even import a 3d printer ). They also need to invest in development of machines that manufacture those machines like investments in additive manufacturing, high accuracy cnc machines, investment in development of machinery that can speed up manufacturing of composite parts etc.

Now lets come to technical expertise. We churning out thousands of technical graduates every year. Unfortunately most of them are not competent as one would hope. Real competency cannot come until significant reforms are made at university level. Most universities (even top tier) focus more on theoretical side of things (makes sense as they want to publish papers) rather than teaching how products are engineered. We also are not actively investing in technical education (dae level) of workforce. This work force is essential if you want to develop an industrial base.

 

[Deino]

I was told last year by the same source which told me about Pakistans purchase of 40 J-10CEs that the PAF had also purchased a dozen J-20 fighter jets.

No one believed me since the last 6 months when I said that the first 2 squadrons are expected to arrive by the end of the year but it surprises me that might source also mention the purchase of a dozen J-20s and was adamant about it.
...

Indeed and still no-one - upps, sorry, one grumpy old man believes everything that I don't believe, but surely not since it's correct, but simply to disagree with me - believes taht Pakistan will ever get J-20s, even less that they "had also purchased" already J-20s and most of all only "a dozen J-20 fighter jets".

Can we finally put this non-sense to a rest - even more since it is off-topic in the FC-31 thread - that some think from time to time they need to put out this topic?

 

[PakAlp]

Hi,

Thank you very much for your post.

J-20 is a reality for Pakistan---. I had stated in years ago that if need be---the J-20 would be available to the Paf---. There were some silly comments to that---but the reality is that a lot has been on offer to pakistan.

Why the Paf has not taken the offer of other chinse aircraft in the past decade---sometimes it was a matter of ego---other times they got sabotaged by the F-16 mafia.

As of the J-20---china would rather have Paf use it against the enemy rater than china.

If it is successful---china can claim the victory and j=kudos to the Paf pilots---but if the Paf failed---china can then blame the Paf for being upto the mark on the 5th gen aircraft---.

If Pakistan buys the J20 then it would be by 2030 as we have no need for it at the moment. Our defence is targeted against India and they will not have a 5th generation jet till atleast 2030. By 2030 China will be targeting the 6th generation jet and J20 would easily be available, the benefit for paf would be that it will have chinese engine and would be more advanced. The J35 and Tfx is another option ofcourse.

 

[mingle]

If Pakistan buys the J20 then it would be by 2030 as we have no need for it at the moment. Our defence is targeted against India and they will not have a 5th generation jet till atleast 2030. By 2030 China will be targeting the 6th generation jet and J20 would easily be available, the benefit for paf would be that it will have chinese engine and would be more advanced. The J35 and Tfx is another option ofcourse.

J20 are good if we wont able to get F16s upgardes logical replacement of old vipers is 5th Gen jet

 

[PakAlp]

J20 are good if we wont able to get F16s upgardes logical replacement of old vipers is 5th Gen jet

F16s after 2030s? Yes paf wouldn't mind upgrades on it but J20 is the next generation fighter jet, we will need it no matter what.

 

[Thorough Pro]

8 subs are not going to be delivered next month, and not the full payment is done in advance.
8 subs will be delivered in the next 10 years and the payment will probably be made in the next 20 years.

Unfortunately I feel like in the last few years the priorities of the PAF have taken a back burner compared to the priorities of the PA & PN. The amount of new weaponry coming onboard the next few years for the PA & PN is mind boggling while the PAF is still in limbo unsure of the J10CE (atleast publicly).

We are willing to spend 6 BN on 8 chinese submarines whereby we complain of the lack of funds to replace 200+ 50s era vintage fighters. I am not saying that AIP submarines are unimportant, but would it not have been a better idea to go with 4 subs initially and use the other half of funds (3BN) to aqcuire a decent amount of Fighters?

I just see our procurements all over the place with no vision in mind. Id like to see EVERY procurement placed on a temporary hold until we can wrap our heads around what is needed on an urgent basis for the PAF and prioritize that. Without air power our army & navy would be doomed in battle. The first step is to build a stakeholder concensus that the PAF is going to be prioritized above all else.

1 2 3 priority needs to be given to the PAF, JF17B3s are great, but it is not enough when India is expected to induct hundreds of fighters in the next 2 years (Rafales, MKI, Mig29, LCA) along with S400 SAMS.

 

[Deino]

F16s after 2030s? Yes paf wouldn't mind upgrades on it but J20 is the next generation fighter jet, we will need it no matter what.

You sound just like my little son while standing in front of a Porsche Cayenne telling me "dad, we will need it no matter what."!
So welcome to reality: that's the harsh clash of dream meets reality!

 

[Ghessan]

You sound just like my little son while standing in front of a Porsche Cayenne telling me "dad, we will need it no matter what."!
So welcome to reality: that's the harsh clash of dream meets reality!

sometimes it feels you love to do this stuff...

waiting for a fish, get caught and then cut it down the belly, just to find whats inside.
but fish ain't have anything inside, everything it has is itself.

there is one more thing, people really need to grow old to learn few things as wisdom demands it.

but when someone somewhere does not learn with time but put the dirt on it and keep going with the intellect he or she possess, considering it enough to be a god, it becomes a blunder.
a blunder that sane people observe from the distance but never correct him as they know it is worthless.

 

[TOTUU]

This video has a lot of information for those who know Chinese.

• This 3.0 FC-31 (Navy version) carries fewer missiles than the J20, but can carry the same missile size as the J20.
• It's supersonic cruise speed is greater than the supersonic cruise speed of J20 and the maximum speed is less than the maximum speed of J20.
• Maximum flight speed is greater than Mach 2.2.
• Electronic equipment is comparable to J20.
• The heaviest anti-ship missile carried is launched at supersonic cruise with a theoretical range of more than 1,000 km.
• The aerodynamic shape is more complex than the J20, resulting in more complex flight control software, so the development time is longer than the J20, the development costs are higher than the J20.
• The video says that the advantages of the F35 over the FC31 are its large bomb load and long range, and its disadvantages are poor flight performance, weak combat power, and small maximum size of missiles that can be carried. The FC-31 is a high-altitude, high-speed fighter designed to attack the F35, which can be thought of as a slimmed-down combat version of the F35 . the overall performance is ahead of the F35.

• FC-31 2.0 proving aircraft is an export model (land-based version) . 3.0 is the 2.0 version of the sea-based type

 

[MastanKhan]

You sound just like my little son while standing in front of a Porsche Cayenne telling me "dad, we will need it no matter what."!
So welcome to reality: that's the harsh clash of dream meets reality!

Hi,

You got dirt on your face many a times. Why do you keep asking for more---.

 

[Deino]

Hi,

You got dirt on your face many a times. Why do you keep asking for more---.

Indeed, just as you noted, it was me who's post was deleted by a senior moderator due to being again a completely irrelevant off-topic post with the only intention to insult by lying ... or wasn't it just the other way reversed?

Can you not simply shut up and ignore or at least argue if there's anything to say?

But again it seems insulting and "pouring oil into the fire to aggravate this already more than stupid dispute" is all you can.

Oh man, get mature, go and look for a satisfying job or hobby but don't try to anger other peoples who have a live and even more see a meaning in live. What you are doing here, has surely none but to give you a good feeling and this in return is only a pity.

 

[Shotgunner51]

FC-31 2.0 proving aircraft is an export model (land-based version) . 3.0 is the 2.0 version of the sea-based type

The more likely scenario is that 2.0 was a testbed (技术验证机) not prototype (原型机), the project has since day one been a naval/CV jet. SAC needs to fly the testbed(s) somewhere, naturally they choose to begin from dry land close to SAC facility, it doesn't mean it is a land-based "version" which never exists. The only one variant is naval/CV as of now, IF there is land-based or export or JV or twin-seat or whatever variants we love to imagine, they will only be developed after the original gets deployed on 003. Just my opinion.

 

[TOTUU]

The more likely scenario is that 2.0 was a testbed (技术验证机) not prototype (原型机), the project has since day one been a naval/CV jet. SAC needs to fly the testbed(s) somewhere, naturally they choose to begin from dry land close to SAC facility, it doesn't mean it is a land-based "version" which never exists. The only one variant is naval/CV as of now, IF there is land-based or export or JV or twin-seat or whatever variants we love to imagine, they will only be developed after the original gets deployed on 003. Just my opinion.

The video at 3:22 makes it clear that the 3.0 is a 2.0 naval derivative, and the export type is also a 2.0 derivative.

That means there are two derivative models of 2.0 -----1， the 3.0 version(Naval electromagnetic catapult type) . 2, the export version （ Land-based type ）.