SAC - FC-31 Grey Falcon Stealth aircraft for PAF : Updates & Debate

[The Eagle]

Checkmate = j35 ?

Russia will unveil it during MAKS21 airshow. Not J-35 but new Russian single engine fighter with 5th gen characteristics.

I was told last year by the same source which told me about Pakistans purchase of 40 J-10CEs that the PAF had also purchased a dozen J-20 fighter jets.

No one believed me since the last 6 months when I said that the first 2 squadrons are expected to arrive by the end of the year but it surprises me that might source also mention the purchase of a dozen J-20s and was adamant about it.

It may be more likely that the PAF may be purchasing a dozen J-31/J35 rather than J20 but my source stood by his word. So far his own sources have been on point.

There would be value in the PAF purchasing a few dozen J-31/J-35 before maybe eventually starting its own production, but the J20 would be of immense value for the PAF and they might have concluded that a few dozen (24) might be reasonable to purchase (in batches of 12)?

It's too much of such claims. Almost everyone claimed so there's no royalty of claims in internet world. Secondly, there's a source that claimed that 2 different types have already landed too. Having said that, time for us to share opinion instead of convincing people to believe me.

The source of the Source, is well known to me. My suggestion is that, don't believe into everything.

 

[phrozenflame]

Agreed - have you and your friends gathered $12-15 billion needed for it? A charity donation drive might help since the national tax and revenue net cannot afford it or an additional loan.

Charity donation drive for 5th gen aircraft? lol

 

[MastanKhan]

I was told last year by the same source which told me about Pakistans purchase of 40 J-10CEs that the PAF had also purchased a dozen J-20 fighter jets.

No one believed me since the last 6 months when I said that the first 2 squadrons are expected to arrive by the end of the year but it surprises me that might source also mention the purchase of a dozen J-20s and was adamant about it.

It may be more likely that the PAF may be purchasing a dozen J-31/J35 rather than J20 but my source stood by his word. So far his own sources have been on point.

There would be value in the PAF purchasing a few dozen J-31/J-35 before maybe eventually starting its own production, but the J20 would be of immense value for the PAF and they might have concluded that a few dozen (24) might be reasonable to purchase (in batches of 12)?

Hi,

Thank you very much for your post.

J-20 is a reality for Pakistan---. I had stated in years ago that if need be---the J-20 would be available to the Paf---. There were some silly comments to that---but the reality is that a lot has been on offer to pakistan.

Why the Paf has not taken the offer of other chinse aircraft in the past decade---sometimes it was a matter of ego---other times they got sabotaged by the F-16 mafia.

As of the J-20---china would rather have Paf use it against the enemy rater than china.

If it is successful---china can claim the victory and j=kudos to the Paf pilots---but if the Paf failed---china can then blame the Paf for being upto the mark on the 5th gen aircraft---.

 

[StructE]

Hi,

Thank you very much for your post.

J-20 is a reality for Pakistan---. I had stated in years ago that if need be---the J-20 would be available to the Paf---. There were some silly comments to that---but the reality is that a lot has been on offer to pakistan.

Why the Paf has not taken the offer of other chinse aircraft in the past decade---sometimes it was a matter of ego---other times they got sabotaged by the F-16 mafia.

As of the J-20---china would rather have Paf use it against the enemy rater than china.

If it is successful---china can claim the victory and j=kudos to the Paf pilots---but if the Paf failed---china can then blame the Paf for being upto the mark on the 5th gen aircraft---.

At the moment PAF has no need of J-20, most of PAF agenda is India Centric. It is not like PAF is looking to engage USAF. Stealth fighters are notorious to maintain, if you have a squadron, expect to have maximum 4 fighters ready to scramble at any given time. Probably not worth the hassle.

Downside of getting J-20 will be that it will push India in a frenzy of buying and upgrading. In that process they might end up fixing their training issues as well.

 

[MastanKhan]

At the moment PAF has no need of J-20, most of PAF agenda is India Centric. It is not like PAF is looking to engage USAF. Stealth fighters are notorious to maintain, if you have a squadron, expect to have maximum 4 fighters ready to scramble at any given time. Probably not worth the hassle.

Downside of getting J-20 will be that it will push India in a frenzy of buying and upgrading. In that process they might end up fixing their training issues as well.

Hi,

You are correct---. Paf has been caught in a scary position of incompetence---damned if they go for it and damned if they don't---.

The cutesies of Paf will play havoc with the the future defences of pakistan---.

At the most critical juncture of pakistan's integrity---the Paf has left pakistan extremely vulnerable.

 

[PakFactor]

Hi,

You are correct---. Paf has been caught in a scary position of incompetence---damned if they go for it and damned if they don't---.

The cutesies of Paf will play havoc with the the future defences of pakistan---.

At the most critical juncture of pakistan's integrity---the Paf has left pakistan extremely vulnerable.

It’s stupid to first of all think along the Indian Centric line and wait for your enemy to purchase and then purchase to counter it while you should purchase first and establish superiority. The minimum deterrence and training is showing it’s fruits at the wrong time in all branches of armed forces.

For Pakistan our eastern neighbor India isn’t a strategic or national threat as WoT has shown it’s from 12,000 miles away and they need to figure out what the hell they need to do to counter it. Because Pakistan will soon be on the chopping block.

 

[KaiserX]

Hi,

You are correct---. Paf has been caught in a scary position of incompetence---damned if they go for it and damned if they don't---.

The cutesies of Paf will play havoc with the the future defences of pakistan---.

At the most critical juncture of pakistan's integrity---the Paf has left pakistan extremely vulnerable.

Unfortunately I feel like in the last few years the priorities of the PAF have taken a back burner compared to the priorities of the PA & PN. The amount of new weaponry coming onboard the next few years for the PA & PN is mind boggling while the PAF is still in limbo unsure of the J10CE (atleast publicly).

We are willing to spend 6 BN on 8 chinese submarines whereby we complain of the lack of funds to replace 200+ 50s era vintage fighters. I am not saying that AIP submarines are unimportant, but would it not have been a better idea to go with 4 subs initially and use the other half of funds (3BN) to aqcuire a decent amount of Fighters?

I just see our procurements all over the place with no vision in mind. Id like to see EVERY procurement placed on a temporary hold until we can wrap our heads around what is needed on an urgent basis for the PAF and prioritize that. Without air power our army & navy would be doomed in battle. The first step is to build a stakeholder concensus that the PAF is going to be prioritized above all else.

1 2 3 priority needs to be given to the PAF, JF17B3s are great, but it is not enough when India is expected to induct hundreds of fighters in the next 2 years (Rafales, MKI, Mig29, LCA) along with S400 SAMS.

 

[Scorpiooo]

Hi,

Thank you very much for your post.

J-20 is a reality for Pakistan---. I had stated in years ago that if need be---the J-20 would be available to the Paf---. There were some silly comments to that---but the reality is that a lot has been on offer to pakistan.

Why the Paf has not taken the offer of other chinse aircraft in the past decade---sometimes it was a matter of ego---other times they got sabotaged by the F-16 mafia.

As of the J-20---china would rather have Paf use it against the enemy rater than china.

If it is successful---china can claim the victory and j=kudos to the Paf pilots---but if the Paf failed---china can then blame the Paf for being upto the mark on the 5th gen aircraft---.

Sir , Can PAF afford induction and then flyaway cost of J20 ?

Hi,

You are correct---. Paf has been caught in a scary position of incompetence---damned if they go for it and damned if they don't---.

The cutesies of Paf will play havoc with the the future defences of pakistan---.

At the most critical juncture of pakistan's integrity---the Paf has left pakistan extremely vulnerable.

@MastanKhan Do you think J10C induction will make some kind balance now between PAF and IAF or we still need new block F16s

 

[PakFactor]

Sir , Can PAF afford induction and then flyaway cost of J20 ?

@MastanKhan Do you think J10C induction will make some kind balance now between PAF and IAF or we still need new block F16s

@MastanKhan will answer this question himself. But I would like to interject into this that we need to stop thinking of F-16s that is a by gone era and we aren't getting anymore unless a WoT type conflict happens and Pak services are needed as the 80's and 00's has shown.

American priority is to arm India and they will not do anything to upset that, and the American's don't really care about the strategic balance at the moment between Pak-Indian. You only choice is below:

- Purchase J-10C High-End + J-17BIII low-mid end
- Increase your fighter inventory levels to match you neighbors, jet per jet (or the attrition will kill you)
- Invest in Long Range SAMs
- OSINT and Other Intel activities to target Indian SAM sites
- Naval Air Arm (PAF can't carry this burden as it will have to focus mainland air space, those who think PAF will provide some sort of cover are living in a fools paradise and that's PAF/PN High Ups). Hence I feel if the Navy doesn't built up our surface fleets will be picked of easily by our enemies.

 

[Scorpiooo]

- Naval Air Arm (PAF can't carry this burden as it will have to focus mainland air space, those who think PAF will provide some sort of cover are living in a fools paradise and that's PAF/PN High Ups). Hence I feel if the Navy doesn't built up our surface fleets will be picked of easily by our enemies.

We need to induct few dedicated heavy twin jet for naval role in comings years in PAF and post 2030-35 need to have independent jets in naval air arm

@MastanKhan will answer this question himself. But I would like to interject into this that we need to stop thinking of F-16s that is a by gone era and we aren't getting anymore unless a WoT type conflict happens and Pak services are needed as the 80's and 00's has shown.

We can't forgot one thing that is PAF baba jee love for F16s and expertise there pilots got on them..
Whatever the case PAF baba jee will continue there trys for F16s

 

[PakFactor]

We need to induct few dedicated heavy twin jet for naval role in comings years in PAF and post 2030-35 need to have independent jets in naval air arm

We can't forgot one thing that is PAF baba jee love for F16s and expertise there pilots got on them..
Whatever the case PAF baba jee will continue there trys for F16s

Hence why it pains me to see these babe jee's waste their time -- our people don't have a forward thinking capability. I often wonder how we in the West think on completely different level than our counter parts back home.

 

[Scorpiooo]

Hence why it pains me to see these babe jee's waste their time -- our people don't have a forward thinking capability. I often wonder how we in the West think on completely different level than our counter parts back home.

These baba jee are still in there youth era 1980s when F16s was incredible and advance machine, Now time have evolved alot of things but they are still there

 

[MastanKhan]

Sir , Can PAF afford induction and then flyaway cost of J20 ?

@MastanKhan Do you think J10C induction will make some kind balance now between PAF and IAF or we still need new block F16s

Hi,

Do you want to live your tomorrow as a free and strong nation---????

If 8 billion were found for 8 subs and 4 Type 054's then more funds can be found elsewhere.

Just don't donate it for earthquake relief.

 

[FuturePAF]

@MastanKhan will answer this question himself. But I would like to interject into this that we need to stop thinking of F-16s that is a by gone era and we aren't getting anymore unless a WoT type conflict happens and Pak services are needed as the 80's and 00's has shown.

American priority is to arm India and they will not do anything to upset that, and the American's don't really care about the strategic balance at the moment between Pak-Indian. You only choice is below:

- Purchase J-10C High-End + J-17BIII low-mid end
- Increase your fighter inventory levels to match you neighbors, jet per jet (or the attrition will kill you)
- Invest in Long Range SAMs
- OSINT and Other Intel activities to target Indian SAM sites
- Naval Air Arm (PAF can't carry this burden as it will have to focus mainland air space, those who think PAF will provide some sort of cover are living in a fools paradise and that's PAF/PN High Ups). Hence I feel if the Navy doesn't built up our surface fleets will be picked of easily by our enemies.

The best thing for national defense would be long term reforms to get the economy on the right track. A growing economy can afford to spare more on national defense; especially when we know what we need but can’t spare a few billion here and there to procure them.

Many of us, individually and/or collectively have a live and let live attitude to personal and professional responsibility, while the rest of the world is harsh and is taking more and more of our market share in everything we do.

Our elders have been hobbled by the short term planning they have been forced by our economic and diplomatic circumstances, as well as our own lack of discipline. National will needs to be focused by competent bold leadership with a realistic vision we can build, incrementally and humbly, not afraid to challenge how things have been run for decades. Considering how inefficient we currently are, any leader worth their salt will be willing to push for the reforms we need and damn the consequences.

 

[python-000]

No doubt J-31/J-35 is the best option for PAF because it's a medium size dual-engines with Stealth features...