Saab adds GaN AESA co-dev to Make in India Gripen pitch

[GURU DUTT]

The only difference will be that JF-17 will be in air with all these equipment with all working components not like tejas...


Hmmm...

well there are 18 prototypes of Tejas has already made and in testing and unlike JF-Tejas is tested to take off and land on very short runways in any kind of weather and day and night oprations on any altitude air base from south(goa) to north (J&K & leh) to west/ jaiselmer to east/bagdogra

and tejas has already dome more than 3000 flight hours without a single mishap and if thats not flight worthy and experience nothing is .... so come out of your dream Tejas has already achived IOC2 and is slated firmly to get FOC status by the end of this calender year

The cost of Gripen E to the Swedish Air Force is estimated to about $70M per plane.
You don't know when an LCA Mk 2 is available.
Some other aircraft have longer range/loitering time, which might be overkill for a MiG-21 replacement.
Because Meteor is better, perhaps...
Because second hand Mirage 2000 lacks most things available in state of the art aircraft.
So you prefer a naval fighter with an outdated engine?
Read the title of the thread, GaN AESA.
Russian missiles rarely hit, so You have to fire salvoes. Not equivalent to Meteor.

so do Grippen or SAAB have there own swedish made AESA-GaN based radar and avionicks on Grippen NG or they are getting it from some other nation ?

Tejas with EL2052 (GaN Based ) AESA radar & Combined EW-ECM suites gonna cost 30million dollars and is as good as Grippen so why will india go for Grippen ... at that price USA is offering fully loaded F16V to india so why not F16V for IAF


as for Meteor well we already have I Derby ER and develpong Astra which are at least 1/3rd of price of a Meteor and with Rafale we are already going to get Meteor as its made by MBDA not SAB and it can even in future we intigrated in Tejas

 

[Zain Malik]

well there are 18 prototypes of Tejas has already made and in testing and unlike JF-Tejas is tested to take off and land on very short runways in any kind of weather and day and night oprations on any altitude air base from south(goa) to north (J&K & leh) to west/ jaiselmer to east/bagdogra

and tejas has already dome more than 3000 flight hours without a single mishap and if thats not flight worthy and experience nothing is .... so come out of your dream Tejas has already achived IOC2 and is slated firmly to get FOC status by the end of this calender year


so do Grippen or SAAB have there own swedish made AESA-GaN based radar and avionicks on Grippen NG or they are getting it from some other nation ?

Tejas with AESA radar gonna cost 30million dollars and is as good as Grippen so why will india go for Grippen ... at that price USA is offering fully loaded F16V to india so why not F16V for IAF


sure sure go ahead but just remmeber Tejas is still in flight testing and improoving its weapons & avionick so to get FOC cause unlike PAF ... IAF dont take half baked and untested and underperfoming platforms ... its all about haves and have nots

I am not going to reply more....I have already got warning of trolling also you will start weeping..

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

well there are 18 prototypes of Tejas has already made and in testing and unlike JF-Tejas is tested to take off and land on very short runways in any kind of weather and day and night oprations on any altitude air base from south(goa) to north (J&K & leh) to west/ jaiselmer to east/bagdogra

and tejas has already dome more than 3000 flight hours without a single mishap and if thats not flight worthy and experience nothing is .... so come out of your dream Tejas has already achived IOC2 and is slated firmly to get FOC status by the end of this calender year


so do Grippen or SAAB have there own AESA-GaN based radar and avionicks on Grippen NG or they are getting it from some other nation ?

Tejas with AESA radar gonna cost 30million dollars and is as good as Grippen so why will india go for Grippen ... at that price USA is offering fully loaded F16V to india so why not F16V for IAF

Yes, SAAB is the first to offer GaN AESA radar. They have this as a sweetener for a Made in India Gripen deal.
Since noone else have it, You either get Gripen, or have to live with GaAs AESA.

No, Tejas is not as good as Gripen E. You get what You pay for.
You can try to catch up, but in the foreseeable future, at any given point of time,
a pilot would be better off in a Gripen, than in a Tejas.
At the moment, you can use Meteor in Gripen, but not in Tejas. That alone makes Gripen superior.
There are of course others, but until You have qualified Meteor on Tejas, you are just producing hot air.

 

[21 Dec 2012]

Yes, SAAB is the first to offer GaN AESA radar. They have this as a sweetener for a Made in India Gripen deal.
Since noone else have it, You either get Gripen, or have to live with GaAs AESA.

No, Tejas is not as good as Gripen E. You get what You pay for.
You can try to catch up, but in the foreseeable future, at any given point of time,
a pilot would be better off in a Gripen, than in a Tejas.
At the moment, you can use Meteor in Gripen, but not in Tejas. That alone makes Gripen superior.
There are of course others, but until You have qualified Meteor on Tejas, you are just producing hot air.

Isn't Gripen E's FOC 10 years from now?

 

[zebra7]

The cost of Gripen E to the Swedish Air Force is estimated to about $70M per plane.

70 Million that should be the fly away cost, and now add the infrastructure required which should cross 100 million a piece. MIG-21 cost around 10-12 Crore rupees a piece.

You don't know when an LCA Mk 2 is available.

2023

Some other aircraft have longer range/loitering time, which might be overkill for a MiG-21 replacement.

For the point Air defence you don't need 1000 Km combat range, over stated rather the broucher range of the Gripen NG.

Because Meteor is better, perhaps...

Every thing is not the Range otherwise you won't have MICA. Hopefully you know that the Indegenous BVR is always better than export BVRAAM which will have the limited capability than the host, and the cost which is very high.

Because second hand Mirage 2000 lacks most things available in state of the art aircraft.

Pls read the Dassault proprietery MDPU artitecture which it got from the Rafale plus do you know Mirrage 2000 can also fire Meteors BVRAAM.

So you prefer a naval fighter with an outdated engine?

LOLZ which outdated engine GE 414 engine, its the same powerplant that power Gripen NG, F-18

Read the title of the thread, GaN AESA.

So what you added to this thread regarding GaN based AESA MMR. Do SAAB have a working AESA, because India is working on its own indegenous AESA MMR named Uttam sheduled to be ready by 2023-24. Also ELTA of Israel is ready to work with India, on the upgraded version of EL/M 2052 MMR. Who is stopping India to get the down sized version of RBE-2 AESA from Thales or make a deal and getting help from BEL.

Russian missiles rarely hit, so You have to fire salvoes. Not equivalent to Meteor.

LOLZ pls prove it. which BVRAAM are you going to prove by the way R-77 or R-23

For the sake of starter like you MK-2 of MRCA Tejas will have Israeli Derby NG -- which the OEM claimed that it is 3 times cheaper and 80 percent capable of Meteors.

 

[GURU DUTT]

Yes, SAAB is the first to offer GaN AESA radar. They have this as a sweetener for a Made in India Gripen deal.
Since noone else have it, You either get Gripen, or have to live with GaAs AESA.

No, Tejas is not as good as Gripen E. You get what You pay for.
You can try to catch up, but in the foreseeable future, at any given point of time,
a pilot would be better off in a Gripen, than in a Tejas.
At the moment, you can use Meteor in Gripen, but not in Tejas. That alone makes Gripen superior.
There are of course others, but until You have qualified Meteor on Tejas, you are just producing hot air.

well even then Tejas Gonna have EL2052 GaN based Israeli AESA and Weapons like Python5+Derby and I Derby ER wich is as potent as what SAAB is offering at Twice the price while we all Know SAAB wants maintainence pakage which alone is almost the rate of a branf new tejas with maintanence package

so no matter what SAAB says India not gonna buy it instead F16V is a far better and potent option and it carries more than 30% more than Grippen NG and that too at the same price

 

[zebra7]

well even then Tejas Gonna have EL2052 GaN based Israeli AESA and Weapons like Python5+Derby and I Derby ER wich is as potent as what SAAB is offering at Twice the price while we all Know SAAB wants maintainence pakage which alone is almost the rate of a branf new tejas with maintanence package

so no matter what SAAB says India not gonna buy it instead F16V is a far better and potent option and it carries more than 30% more than Grippen NG and that too at the same price

Guru Bhai SAAB is feeling the HEAT of the MRCA Tejas which have Airforce, Naval carrier and Trainer version. OOPS SAAB don't have any Carrier to test their Sea Gripen and is now ready to give everything.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

Guru Bhai SAAB is feeling the HEAT of the MRCA Tejas which have Airforce, Naval carrier and Trainer version. OOPS SAAB don't have any Carrier to test their Sea Gripen and is now ready to give everything.

There is a difference betwen "have" and "will have" or perhaps "may have".
The Sea Gripen is part of the discussions with Brazil, stupid. They have the carrier.

well even then Tejas Gonna have EL2052 GaN based Israeli AESA and Weapons like Python5+Derby and I Derby ER wich is as potent as what SAAB is offering at Twice the price while we all Know SAAB wants maintainence pakage which alone is almost the rate of a branf new tejas with maintanence package

so no matter what SAAB says India not gonna buy it instead F16V is a far better and potent option and it carries more than 30% more than Grippen NG and that too at the same price

Gonna have, Gonna have.
I am sure that Tejas "Gonna have" a Klingon Cloaking device,
as soon as any other manufacturer announces availability April 1.

Not a lot of people evaluating F-16V In current procurements, wonder why?

As for LCA Mk 2 in 2023:
Hofstadter's Law: It always takes longer than you expect, even when you take into account Hofstadter's Law.

 

[GURU DUTT]

There is a difference betwen "have" and "will have" or perhaps "may have".
The Sea Gripen is part of the discussions with Brazil, stupid. They have the carrier.

IAF never gonna have Grippen NG which has 70-75million$$s as fly away cost same as what USA is Offering for its F- 16 V model and both have almost same costings for there respective mantainence and weapons pacage while F-16V can carry more than 30% wieght of weapons and Feul + it also have CFT and the fact going with US platforms means very good diliverry timing and political milage and uninturrupted supply of spares and weapons

so its better to go for F16s and israelies can also give us very good training and other support which we have to start fresh in case of Grippen so Grippen is a waste of money

as for Tejas well its already in proces testing & FOC is expected by this year end also tell when is grippen gpoing to have FOC

 

[zebra7]

There is a difference betwen "have" and "will have" or perhaps "may have".
The Sea Gripen is part of the discussions with Brazil, stupid. They have the carrier.

There is a difference between the technological gains to a country that direct toward self sufficiency and buy the ready made product after reading the colorful brouchers. Leave aside SEA Gripen which is atleast a decade away, and good luck with your brazil and Thailand, though their carrier is littlebit small.

1. All prospects for the SAAB regarding their Gripen have ended in India, but SAAB is so desperate marketing its already rejected plane and still have a office in Delhi, which is pouring money to produce BS articles in Indian Media.

2. For Indian Airforce LCA Tejas MK-1 have already given the order of 120 Units, and IN is already commited with the 40 units of the MK-2 version of the Naval LCA. There is a demand for more than 80 units of the Trainer version which is Mk-1 version for both IAF and INAF.

3 For Airforce LCA most probably will get another 120 unit order which is build by the Indians for the Indians which fullfill the Indian requirement.

4. SAAB don't have any 5th Gen fighter plane development plan, but India have and ADA is working on its development, and HAL will be the lead integrator probably and most of the technology used on the AMCA would be developed on the MK-2.

5. Their is nothing that SAAB can offer to india, which they own its IPR's because SAAB is just an integrator just like HAL, and many of its critical technologies were designed and developed by other nations like BAE, and LM.

Gonna have, Gonna have.
I am sure that Tejas "Gonna have" a Klingon Cloaking device,
as soon as any other manufacturer announces availability April 1.

Not a lot of people evaluating F-16V In current procurements, wonder why?

As for LCA Mk 2 in 2023:
Hofstadter's Law: It always takes longer than you expect, even when you take into account Hofstadter's Law.

B.S thinking, a company which was already working on earlier planes would need very less time to develop, that's why LCA MK-2 will take less time, and due to the commonality with the MK-1 it will lower the cost also.

BTW you forgot, India have indegenous turbo fan Engine program also. When ready, it will power the LCA Tejas, and would be a good export prospect.

OOPS LCA Tejas with Indian, US engine option, with Israeli, Indian MMR option, With Israeli, Indian, Russian weapon option.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

IAF never gonna have Grippen NG which has 70-75million$$s as fly away cost same as what USA is Offering for its F- 16 V model and both have almost same costings for there respective mantainence and weapons pacage while F-16V can carry more than 30% wieght of weapons and Feul + it also have CFT and the fact going with US platforms means very good diliverry timing and political milage and uninturrupted supply of spares and weapons

so its better to go for F16s and israelies can also give us very good training and other support which we have to start fresh in case of Grippen so Grippen is a waste of money

as for Tejas well its already in proces testing & FOC is expected by this year end also tell when is grippen gpoing to have FOC

Tejjas Mk 1 is not Tejjas Mk 2.
Delivery of Gripen E to the Swedish Air Force will commence in 2019, and will be completed in 2023.
SAAB continuosly updates Gripen, so FOC is really not applicable.

 

[TangoViking]

METEOR is not a game changer for IAF since raf

Capabilities Gripen NG bring in compared to LCA Mk2 is so minimal when requirement is for a true double engine multi role fighter. METEOR is not a game changer for IAF since rafale will already have it. Additional 2 METEOR is not even an argument to buy a seperate fighter.

IAF already plans to operate 6-7 different aircrafts adding another is not a solution, it shows fundamentally flawed thinking.

Perhaps, but they could continue a LCA-track with indigenous weapons and joint ventures while adding another western fighter integrated with European and U.S weapons. In fact the Gripen will also come with a Brazilian weapons fit and Israeli avionics/helmet. That's one point, to buy an aircraft other countries already funded combat capabilities on.

Gripen E/NG does fundamentally offer better range and weapons load, but of course if that is not required then it has no merit. Adding a twin-store launcher (to Tejas as suggested) is often problematic and the very few fighter types who adopted this method is flying with flight performance restrictions. But that's against the point anyway, the point is bringing in more capability without having to fund much more development/integration.

Speculating, perhaps the Rafale track is too costly for the large numbers needed. A sign here is the unwillingness to commit to 126 aircraft. While Mirage 2000 is now being upgraded its capability and weapons fit is not that amazing for the future to come and eventually those airframes will retire both due to age and high cost of further modernization.

But right now it's all talk and no business, so who knows. I think you all ask good questions here. Just pointing out one or two reasons why they might be interested in Gripen NG.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

B.S thinking, a company which was already working on earlier planes would need very less time to develop, that's why LCA MK-2 will take less time, and due to the commonality with the MK-1 it will lower the cost also.

BTW you forgot, India have indegenous turbo fan Engine program also. When ready, it will power the LCA Tejas, and would be a good export prospect.

OOPS LCA Tejas with Indian, US engine option, with Israeli, Indian MMR option, With Israeli, Indian, Russian weapon option.

You make assumptions that HAL is an organisation which is actually functional.
It may be that instead it is a dysfunctional organisation. only time will tell.

I think the Indigenous turbo fan engine program is best forgotten.
It has not produced anything useful so far.

 

[GURU DUTT]

Tejjas Mk 1 is not Tejjas Mk 2.
Delivery of Gripen E to the Swedish Air Force will commence in 2019, and will be completed in 2023.
SAAB continuosly updates Gripen, so FOC is really not applicable.

your right but guess what MOD and IAF has made its mind to have Tejas MK1A with a israeli EL2052 GaN AESA based radar and israeli AESA based combined EW-ECM suite

and work on its MK1A prototye is already started and its first flight might happen in last quater of 2018 or first quater of 2019 so i dont see any reason why should we buy a simmilar / 10-15% better fighter at almost more than twice the price ?

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

your right but guess what MOD and IAF has made its mind to have Tejas MK1A with a israeli EL2052 GaN AESA based radar and israeli AESA based combined EW-ECM suite

and work on its MK1A prototye is already started and its first flight might happen in last quater of 2018 or first quater of 2019 so i dont see any reason why should we buy a simmilar / 10-15% better fighter at almost more than twice the price ?

In 1939, the Spitfire Mk I was 40 % more expensive than the PZL P-11c...