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Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments PART 2

Significant but symbolic,Ukrainian forces regained a foothold in Luhansk oblast.
It also killed off one of the Russian Offensive.

They have been trying to push into Siversky since July, with Bilogorivka taken, they can flank the force in and around Soledar, I am expecting another rout any day now.
 
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Unless it's our objective to annex Afghanistan into our 51st state (No way, as that's the fate for Puerto Rico) we never "Had" Afghanistan. It's a sovereign nation. You cannot lose something you never had. Because we are not staying permanently or having them the same status like American Samoa or Guam, so we will have to leave Afghanistan at some point, be it 20 years or 100 years.

If our objective is to invade and annex Afghanistan, then yes, we "Lost" Afghanistan.

You seem to have problem digesting what or why we were there, we were there to dismantle AQ network in Afghanistan, and then hunt down OBL, and later on into a nation building mission, if you ask me, it is a mistake, we should have better thing to do than to build a nation and leave it at their own device, it only make sense if we are to annex it as part of US territories. But hey, top brass want what top brass want.
Come on mate. NATO was there to also replace Taliban with a government that will not harbour terrorists. That was number 1 goal.

Taliban now run Afghanistan. You lost.
 
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Come on mate. NATO was there to also replace Taliban with a government that will not harbour terrorists. That was number 1 goal.

Taliban now run Afghanistan. You lost.
Again, it's a complex issue, as I said you have to physically lose something to have lost a war. I mean, what if Taliban did not control Afghanistan and Ghani still in charge but moved the country to China once we left? Does that mean we lost again? How about what if US work with Taliban and release the funding and prevent them from further harbor terrorist, does that mean we had won even Taliban is back?

I can tell you this, either one of these scenarios mean nothing to the US, because that's Afghanistan affair. Unless we want to annex Afghanistan and make it to our affair.

And why you are so keen on NATO lost anyway? Do you think life is really better under Taliban control?
 
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A senior defence official told CNN "US may send Tanks to Ukraine, but ATACMS are out"

 
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A senior defence official told CNN "US may send Tanks to Ukraine, but ATACMS are out"


I think early version M1 or even M1A1 is possible. As for ATACMS. it doesn't have the range of Iskander and lacks accuracy considering it is early 90s missile which may cause too much civilian casualty.
 
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And still lost the war, thats even more humiliating.

lost the war per your silly fantasy, if you expected the West to turn Afghanistan into another Japan or South Korea then the first question is obviously the desire of the population to step out of the tribal regressive mindset and embrace the future. When the vast majority of rural Afghans are happy stuck in the 17th century and don't even consider themselves Afghans. Forget the west, I'm not even sure God can achieve such a miracle.
 
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And why you are so keen on NATO lost anyway? Do you think life is really better under Taliban control?
This is about making US look bad. That is all there is to it. He knows 'winning' or 'losing' is a complex issue. It is not as if political reforms into the defeated country is new. Every defeated country has its political leadership or institutions modified in some ways or even abolished. The Romans are kinda famous on that front. So he is not ignorant of the historical facts or what you explained.

Here is the deal...

1. A fact is information without emotion.​
2. An opinion is information with experience.​
3. Ignorance is opinion without information.​
4. Stupidity is opinion ignoring fact.​

I think we can safely put him, and those like him, into 3 and 4.

Well if Taliban had HIMARS and Drones and AAA like Ukraine does, I wonder if US would do much better than russia in Ukraine. For what Taliban had, I the you'd agree they did a terrific job in kicking out not only US but all of NATO from Afghanistan. And not only that but then defeating the Afghan army armed with terrific weapons.
Sure. All the Taliban have to do is export that argument IF any country is stupid enough to employ them as war consultants. :lol:
 
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Ukraine war: Occupied areas call urgent vote to join Russia​

By Paul Kirby
BBC News

    • Published
      38 minutes ago
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Locals react after the shelling of a private building in the small city of Bakhmut near the frontline in the Donetsk area
IMAGE SOURCE,EPA-EFE/REX/SHUTTERSTOCK
Image caption,
It is hard to see how a vote can take place when much of the Donetsk and Zaporizhzhia regions remain under Ukraine's control
Almost seven months after Russia's invasion of Ukraine, areas under Moscow's control have announced plans for urgent so-called referendums on joining Russia.
Russia's invasion has stalled in recent months and Ukraine has recaptured swathes of territory in the north-east.
Now Russian-backed officials in the east and south say they want votes on annexation starting this week.
Russia annexed Crimea in 2014, after a vote widely condemned as a sham.
The international community has never recognised the annexation but it has long been clear that Russia intends to rubber-stamp its takeover of other occupied regions in the same way.
The deputy head of Russia's security council, Dmitry Medvedev, said early on Tuesday that holding votes in the eastern regions of Donetsk and Luhansk - also known as Donbas - would correct "historical justice" and be irreversible: "After the amendments to the constitution of our state, no future leader of Russia, no official will be able to reverse these decisions."

Soon afterwards the two breakaway Russian-backed authorities in Donetsk and Luhansk said they would stage votes on 23-27 September. They were both recognised as independent by President Vladimir Putin three days before Russian troops invaded Ukraine from north, east and south.


Russian-installed officials in the southern region of Kherson said they would also hold a vote, and a similar declaration came from Russian-occupied areas of Zaporizhzhia.
For months, Russian-installed authorities have tried to organise self-styled referendums, but the continuing war has made holding them impractical. Ukraine's counter-offensives have made it harder still.
While most of Luhansk has been in Russian hands since July, on Monday, the Ukrainian leader in Luhansk announced that the army had recaptured the village of Bilohorivka.
Map showing east Ukraine. Updated 13 Sept.

1px transparent line

Much of Donetsk remains under Ukrainian control, although Russia has seized the coastal strip along the Sea of Azov.
Although Russian forces quickly captured Kherson at the start of the war, Ukrainian forces have regained some territory and Russian-installed authorities have faced repeated attacks. Earlier attempts to hold a vote there were postponed.

Much of Zaporizhzhia is still under Ukrainian control, including the regional capital of the same name. Even though the 2014 vote in Crimea was widely rejected as illegal and boycotted by a large number of residents, Russia's military were in control of the peninsula.
Ukrainian forces are not far away from the city of Donetsk and on Monday the Russian-backed mayor accused them of shelling the city, killing at least 13 people.
Any attempt to further annex sovereign Ukrainian territory is bound to infuriate leaders in Kyiv and destroy any hope of a negotiated solution.
Ukrainian defence ministry adviser Oleksiy Koptyko suggested they were a "sign of hysteria" in Moscow. Respected Russian analyst Tatiana Stanovaya saw the latest move as an "unequivocal ultimatum" from Russia to Ukraine and the West, and that if they did not react appropriately Russia would fully mobilise its armed forces for war.
There have been growing calls from some quarters for full mobilisation of Russian forces. At present, Vladimir Putin has described the invasion as a "special military operation".
In a separate development, the lower house of Russia's parliament backed long sentences for crimes committed during military mobilisation or combat, including going absent without leave (AWOL), desertion and voluntary surrender.

In a sign that the Kremlin was preparing to back the so-called referendums, Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said that from the start of the operation Russia had wanted residents to have the decision: "The whole current situation confirms that they want to be masters of their fate."
The change in mood comes only hours after Turkey's president said the Russian leader was looking for a way out of the war. "He is actually showing me that he's willing to end this as soon as possible," he told US network PBS.
Russian President Vladimir Putin meets with Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan on the sidelines of the Shanghai Cooperation Organisation (SCO) leaders' summit in Samarkand on September 16, 2022.
IMAGE SOURCE,GETTY IMAGES
Image caption,
President Erdogan, pictured with President Putin on Saturday, has tried to steer a middle path as an ally of both Russia and Ukraine
He also said 200 "hostages" would soon be exchanged between the two sides. He gave no further detail of who would be included in such a prisoner swap.
President Volodymyr Zelensky said on Monday night "the occupiers are clearly in a panic".
 
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Crimea was attacked like repeatedly even after the sham referendum in 2014.

There are absolutely pointless to do that. As ISW mentioned, if the referendum took place and Russia annexed those land, how are they going to kick the Ukrainian out of now "Annexed" territories. "Leave Donetsk or I will nuke you?"

How about they make one for Kyiv in absentia? And then asked the current Ukrainian Government to vacate Kyiv? lol
 
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Crimea was attacked like repeatedly even after the sham referendum in 2014.

There are absolutely pointless to do that. As ISW mentioned, if the referendum took place and Russia annexed those land, how are they going to kick the Ukrainian out of now "Annexed" territories. "Leave Donetsk or I will nuke you?"

How about they make one for Kyiv in absentia? And then asked the current Ukrainian Government to vacate Kyiv? lol
I think that the annexation is meant as a paper justification for war mobilization. Just a trope for domestic audience.

There are doubts if Russia can even provide the necessary logistical support to troops if a war mobilization is officially announced. No lend lease agreement in place now unlike the WW2 days. Maybe China will help its junior partner with helmets and such:pop:
 
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I mean, what if Taliban did not control Afghanistan and Ghani still in charge but moved the country to China once we left? Does that mean we lost again?
No that means you won. your puppet run the show.
How about what if US work with Taliban and release the funding and prevent them from further harbor terrorist, does that mean we had won even Taliban is back?
this means you lost becasue they are back in power and you failed to remove them,
And why you are so keen on NATO lost anyway? Do you think life is really better under Taliban control?
I'm keen on it because it's the truth. I do not think life is better under Taliban.
 
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