Russia-Ukraine War - News and Developments PART 2

[thetutle]

America went in to oust taliban and AQ.
Mission sucess there.

So according to you the taliban is no longer in control of Afghanistan? Better check that one.

You can hardly boast that Coalition military was defeated and “run off” when they never lost 1 battle, and coalition yearly casualties were 30 a year at the end.

This makes their defeat even more humiliating. Imagine Germany invaded France and then after 1 year of fighting the French resistance it just packed up and went back to Germany. And then celebrated their victory over france. Ridiculous right? And said, "we weren't driven out, we just got sick and tired that French didn't accept German rule and we left". Its bizarre and makes you wonder why they went In in the first place.

But lets not dream up this myth of the taliban “defeating the USA military and having them run from afghanistan”. Its Bullshit.

So the US won in Afghanistan and gave it right back to the Taliban. So the US supports the Taliban? US was defeated militarily, because US military could not achieve its objectives in Afghanistan. Military failed. Thats a military loss. Mobilising the military to fight the global war on terror is a bit like mobilising the military to fight climate change. Or the War on drugs. Military will suffer a decisive defeat.

Rediculous russian propaganda shit

Yes I can confirm we still have electricity in Germany. the natural gas price makes me happy: downward trend continues. $178 per MWh. Down from the peak $354. the price will touch $170 this week. The market expects $155 for winter 2023.

More western propaganda. You dont have electricity when using your PC, you have commandeered squirrels and hamsters on hamster wheels to run around and generate electricity. Admit it.

 

[thetutle]

So yes, by all means, assert that the US 'lost' to the Taliban. And see how many armies would believe you and take on the US military just on your say so.

Just because the US military filed to achieve the desired outcome, does not mean its not the most powerful military in the world. What is means it lost to the Taliban because it was not suited to that type of warfare. Taliban liberated their country from foreign invaders. they have done something very few can boast of. If any army fights a conventional war with US, they are toast. Taliban was never able to even do that, it didn't need to, it achieved its objectives without it.

 

[thetutle]

Tell me what did US loses both Tactically and Strategically?

They lost Afghanistan. Pretty major loss I'd say. you can even bring yourself for admit it. pretty sad. Just say to yourself, every night, we we in control of Afghanistan, We are now not. We fought for it, we died for it and we lost it. You are not a more patriotic American if you live in a delusion.

Putin is fighting this war as if he was a deep planted CIA/MI6 agent and not a KGB agent. Why would he trap Russia like this?

Back when Saddam's self inflicted destruction of Iraq through its actions in the invasion of Kuwait and by not withdrawing in 1991, the gossip conspiracy theory was that he must have been a CIA agent (like King Hussein in Jordan) to have caused this much destruction. What idiot would do that and weaken himself against Israel.

Thats how I feel Putin is conducting himself

dictators and countries fall for their own delusions. Saddam did, Putin did, America did for a long time. Took some brave men to decide to cut their losses, Nixon in Vietnam, and trump in Afghaistan. The only president recently not beholden to the military industrial complex.

Not really. To people like you, we 'lose' no matter what. Even if all we did was go in to avenge 9-11, removed the Taliban from power, and leave, we would have been criticized as 'lose' Afghanistan because we did not stay and prevent the Taliban from returning to power.

to people like me? like normal objective people? ok. Well, no, if you avenged 9/11 by bombing some al qadea and some Taliban sheltering them, id say, yep, they avenged this. ok I would say, revenge mission successful. Then you would get hit again and you would avenge again. and over and over until some sort of peace with International terrorism was reached. But I would say, yes successful revenge mission.

Sadly, and it is sad, because I would on balance choose to live in a prosperous western democracy before Taliban run country, your stated goals in Afghanistan were not reached. Because Taliban and its allies prevented you from reaching them.

And now that Taliban has unwound your 20 year effort you think you've won. Seriously seriously deluded.

 

[dbc]

Its exactly right. I know Americans, Bosnians and Australians that were in Afghanistan and let me tell you some of the stories. Many Bosnians chose to be unemployed in Bosnia than go to Afghanistan for $50,000 USD per year. US had very low military losses only because they used civilian contractors who would be killed regularly. some of the truck drivers would be locked inside their trucks while they drive through Afghanistan. But nobody likes to admit defeat least of all Americans, they are a very proud people. So the truth takes time to accept.

nice story the US lost 1,822 contractors in Afghanistan in 20 years. Now can you please stop your Taliban off topic fantasies and return to Ukraine, Also the last thing a seasoned solider will do is lock themselves in a truck in hostile territory, they don't even wear a seat belt. The general preference is to abandon their vehicle and get as small as possible at the first sign of trouble. Finally, NATO forces in contact with the enemy never lost a fight in Afghanistan. They also never held territory, they went in cleared remote villages of Taliban infestation and returned to base - rinse repeat for two decades. After the first year of war the brave Taliban rarely massed to confront NATO troops preferring IED and suicide bombing while they dissolved into the country side or scurried over the border to Pakistan.

 

[ZeGerman]

So according to you the taliban is no longer in control of Afghanistan? Better check that one.

Nope. I am saying the initial combat goals were met.

After that new goals were added. One being “nation building” and “winning hearts and minds” which are policing, propaganda, governmental and political fields.

That this failed…that the afghans were supporting or tolerating taliban despite 20 years occupation…is thus only partly a military shortfall.

This makes their defeat even more humiliating. Imagine Germany invaded France and then after 1 year of fighting the French resistance it just packed up and went back to Germany. And then celebrated their victory over france. Ridiculous right? And said, "we weren't driven out, we just got sick and tired that French didn't accept German rule and we left". Its bizarre and makes you wonder why they went In in the first place.

False analogy. We are talking about 20-30 years. And nobody claims “victory”.

Just that “defeated and run off the military” is a ridiculous statement considering that no battle was ever lost, the losses were in the dozens per year…and the taliban mostly avoided and simply bided their time. Nato also left an afghan army stronger on paper then ukraine.
The failure here is not being able to motivate the regular afghan to oppose the taliban and fight for things like “my daughter can go to school”.

We left the afghans with plenty of training and material…they just simply did not have the heart to oppose taliban.

That is a matter of education/offering alternatives/winning over public/nation building.
Not the usa being militarily defeated and run off. Even in the end the taliban did not dare to directly fight US troops.

To learn from this mistake is to either never mind nation building a middle ages backwater….or go all in on cultural change. a china cultural re-education style, if you do not want to wait too long.

 

[dbc]

Sadly, and it is sad, because I would on balance choose to live in a prosperous western democracy before Taliban run country, your stated goals in Afghanistan were not reached. Because Taliban and its allies prevented you from reaching them.

well the US failed at nation building because Afghanistan isn't a nation - not to the people that live there. It was a fools errand to believe any amount of investment and time will suddenly make the Afghans want to see themselves as a nation and take charge of their own destiny. It took two decades for NATO to realize its a lost cause, the only way forward was to rule the country through application of brute force in perpetuity which the west was not prepared to do.

 

[ZeGerman]

Lets use another analogy. Boxing.

Afghanistan is like me fighting mike tyson. But instead of actually boxing, i hide out for days in the crowd till mike walks off cause his parking meter bill is getting too high.
I then run in, beat up the referee (ana) and start shouting:
I defeated mike tyson!! Did you see him run! What a humiliation! King of the ring baby!

 

[RoadAmerica]

It wasn't Trump's decision it was the US military decision which was endorsed by the politicians who realised they had been defeated. Of course they will try and put a spin on it but the facts tell the true story, just like the Russians are trying to put a spin on the facts in Ukraine.

Nope it was trump decision plain and simple, after all he’s the commander and chief genius

https://twitter.com/x/status/1571874249605877760

They’ll need that wine to cope

 

[F-22Raptor]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1572087951416336385

Listen to these Russian Nazis. They’ve completely lost touch with reality.

 

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1572090807376543744

 

[thetutle]

What good is T-90M when you cannot repair its engine?

Its pretty useful to western engineers, to see how it's made, what its weak points are. See the electronics.

 

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

Its pretty useful to western engineers, to see how it's made, what its weak points are. See the electronics.

Nothing that special about T-90M. It seems to be on par with the latest M1A2.

 

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

Russian-backed separatists in Ukraine's Luhansk region to hold Sept. 23-27 referendum on joining Russia

Russian-backed separatists in the Luhansk People's Republic (LPR) will hold a referendum on joining Russia between Sept. 23-27, the TASS news agency reported on Tuesday, citing the separatist deputy speaker of the region's parliament.

www.reuters.com

 

[thetutle]

Also the last thing a seasoned solider will do is lock themselves in a truck in hostile territory, they don't even wear a seat belt. The general preference is to abandon their vehicle and get as small as possible at the first sign of trouble.

all the more shocking then the NATO decision to chain the contractors to their trucks. Disgraceful.

Finally, NATO forces in contact with the enemy never lost a fight in Afghanistan.

And still lost the war, thats even more humiliating.

Just that “defeated and run off the military” is a ridiculous statement considering that no battle was ever lost, the losses were in the dozens per year

even more humiliating then to lose the war.

The failure here is not being able to motivate the regular afghan to oppose the taliban and fight for things like “my daughter can go to school”.

like it will be hard to motivate the ukranians to fight other ukranians and the ukrnaian government. Russia doest get it and USA didnt get it for 20 years. Afghans rightly or wrongly wil not accept a western putter government like ukrnaians will never accept a russian puppet government.

We left the afghans with plenty of training and material…they just simply did not have the heart to oppose taliban.

read above.

Nothing that special about T-90M. It seems to be on par with the latest M1A2.

We all knew this was likely the case.

 

[jhungary]

They lost Afghanistan. Pretty major loss I'd say. you can even bring yourself for admit it. pretty sad. Just say to yourself, every night, we we in control of Afghanistan, We are now not. We fought for it, we died for it and we lost it. You are not a more patriotic American if you live in a delusion.

Unless it's our objective to annex Afghanistan into our 51st state (No way, as that's the fate for Puerto Rico) we never "Had" Afghanistan. It's a sovereign nation. You cannot lose something you never had. Because we are not staying permanently or having them the same status like American Samoa or Guam, so we will have to leave Afghanistan at some point, be it 20 years or 100 years.

If our objective is to invade and annex Afghanistan, then yes, we "Lost" Afghanistan.

You seem to have problem digesting what or why we were there, we were there to dismantle AQ network in Afghanistan, and then hunt down OBL, and later on into a nation building mission, if you ask me, it is a mistake, we should have better thing to do than to build a nation and leave it at their own device, it only make sense if we are to annex it as part of US territories. But hey, top brass want what top brass want.

On the other hand, leaving the country back with Taliban is probably a smart move, because we know for sure the moment we leave, the Chinese will smack money in front of Ghani face and he will be their "Yes" man, at least it will have no effect if you smack money on Taliban face.

It wasn't Trump's decision it was the US military decision which was endorsed by the politicians who realised they had been defeated. Of course they will try and put a spin on it but the facts tell the true story, just like the Russians are trying to put a spin on the facts in Ukraine.

It's was SOLELY BECAUSE OF TRUMP...... no one, not even SecDef want to sign Doha Agreement.

Again, the military side of Operation were never defeated, so US military will not unilaterally pull out of Afghanistan, I mean, Taliban didn't even do a "Tet" during those 20 years, that's how incompetent Taliban was.

Military only pull out if there are serious and major defeat on the field, like the Kharkiv Offensive in Ukraine, that's why I ask you to name a COB or FOB that was being overrun by Taliban to be considered a pull out.