Russia to build maintenance facility in Vietnam's Cam Rahn Bay

[Viet]

Russian subs break down a lot, they need a lot of places for repairs.
http://defensetech.org/2013/09/09/slbm-test-failures-halt-russian-submarine-development/

the article is about new developed nuclear submarines. We bought diesel attack subs that have been proved since decades.

 

[noname1]

the article is about new developed nuclear submarines. We bought diesel attack subs that have been proved since decades.

Like these:

Indian Kilo Mysteriously Explodes
Next Article → ATTRITION: Video Games Ruin Chinese Military Leadership

August 21, 2013: On August 14th a Russian built Kilo class sub belonging to India (INS Sindhurakshak) seemed to catch fire and explode while docked near Mumbai. The 16 year old submarine had recently returned from Russia after an $80 million refurbishment. Eighteen sailors were killed as the sub sank at dockside. The cause appears to have been an accident but an investigation will try to determine if it was caused by human error or equipment failure. Indians fear the latter because there have always been quality control problems with Russian built equipment, especially ships, armored vehicles, and aircraft. There have been several cases of Russian munitions exploding accidentally and sinking or heavily damaging the ships or subs they were on. Even these Kilo refurbishments have had quality control problems. The lost Kilo had returned from the Russian refurbishment in January and successfully completed a three month shakedown cruise. All indications are that everything was in good order and there were no known problems with the crew or the boat. The recent accident is likely the result of something (small fire, maintenance work) causing one of the torpedoes or Klub missiles to detonate. Diesel-electric boats like the Kilo are cramped and contain a lot of flammable stuff inside. Once the sunk sub is raised, the forensic experts can go inside and reconstruct exactly what happened. Most of the evidence is trapped inside the pressure hull of the sub and what exploded and when can easily be determined by reassembling the pieces and running chemical analysis on fragments.

India bought ten Kilo class boats between 1986 and 2000. All ten are still in service. The Kilos weigh 2,300 tons (surface displacement), have six torpedo tubes, and a crew of 57. They are quiet and can travel about 700 kilometers under water at a quiet speed of about five kilometers an hour. Kilos carry 18 torpedoes or Klub anti-ship missiles (with a range of 300 kilometers and launched underwater from the torpedo tubes). The combination of quietness and cruise missiles makes the Kilo very dangerous to American carriers. But for the Russians their Kilos are mostly for home defense. Nuclear subs are used for the long distance work.

The Kilo class boats entered service in the early 1980s. Russia only bought 24 of them but exported over 30. It was considered a successful design, especially with export customers. But just before the Cold War ended in 1991, the Soviet Navy began work on the Lada. This project was stalled during most of the 1990s, by a lack of money, but was revived in the last decade. Russia has 17 Kilos in service (and six in reserve) and six Improved Kilos on order. More than that is on order from foreign customers.

Four years ago India went all in with the Klub missile, agreeing to have four more of its ten Kilo class submarines equipped with the Russian 3M54 ("Klub") anti-ship missiles. At that point only two Indian Kilo boats currently had the Klub, and that was only after some troublesome testing.

And then there are the quality issues. Five years ago India finally accepted the Russian refurbishment of one of its Kilos, the INS Sindhuvijay. The year before, India had refused to accept the refurbished Kilo because of repeated failures of the subs Klub missiles it was now equipped with. The Indian sub had test fired six Klubs in late 2007, and all failed. The Russians had no explanation for the failures. That boat had been in Russia for over two years, for $80 million worth of upgrades and repairs. India refused to pay, or take back the sub, until Russia fixed the problems with the missiles. This the Russians eventually did, and there were several successful Klub that persuaded the Indians to accept the Klub equipped boat.

The Klub missile is a key weapon for the Kilo. Weighing two tons, and fired from a 533mm (21 inch) torpedo tube, the 3M54 has a 200 kg (440 pound) warhead. The anti-ship version has a range of 300 kilometers and speeds up to 3,000 kilometers an hour during its last minute or so of flight. There is also an air launched and ship launched version. A land attack version does away with the high speed final approach feature and has an 880 pound warhead.

Missiles like Klub are considered "carrier killers," but it's not known how many of them would have to hit a carrier to knock it out of action, much less sink it. Moreover, Russian missiles have little combat experience and a reputation for erratic performance. Quality control was never a Soviet strength but the Russians are getting better, at least in the civilian sector. The military manufacturers appear to have been slower to adapt.

 

[sovcomflot]

the article is about new developed nuclear submarines. We bought diesel attack subs that have been proved since decades.

Forget it .This guy is a troll who regurgitates propaganda again and again. Nowadays there are softwares that make sock puppet accounts that keep repeating a few things or trolling again and again by NSA and CIA for online forums.

Moreover, Russian missiles have little combat experience and a reputation for erratic performance. Quality control was never a Soviet strength but the Russians are getting better, at least in the civilian sector. The military manufacturers appear to have been slower to adapt.

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/china-...ty-vietnams-cam-rahn-bay-4.html#ixzz2geFjQ79Q

Also look at his articles ,total propaganda. He's seems to have forgotten that vietnamese shot down 2000 american fighters and bombers with russian migs and sams. Vietnamese only 100-150 aircraft.

Lol,great performance US equipment has.

 

[William Hung]

your theoretical assumption is quite provocative, but sure, nothing is impossible.

I doubt this giving codes to chinese will happen ,unless Vietnam becomes part of western alliance.

The secret deal between Russia and Israel was only a rumor. The point is, if China offer Russia something that will greatly benefit Russia, then no doubt they will take up the offer even if it threaten the security of country like Vietnam or India. History has proven this (Russia selling advanced military hardware to China, ToT, designing helicopter gunship for China, etc.).

I always laugh when I see Vietnamese or Indians calling Russia their ally. Russia is only a business partner, not even deserved to be called a strategic partner.

 

[sovcomflot]

The secret deal between Russia and Israel was only a rumor. The point is, if China offer Russia something that will greatly benefit Russia, then no doubt they will take up the offer even if it threaten the security of country like Vietnam or India. History has proven this (Russia selling advanced military hardware to China, ToT, designing helicopter gunship for China, etc.).

I always laugh when I see Vietnamese or Indians calling Russia their ally. Russia is only a business partner, not even deserved to be called a strategic partner.

That claim I am doubtful.Because Russia helped China in non-strategic technologies which is for conventional warfare ,while it has helped India in very strategic technologies like creating nuclear submarines or supersonic sea skimming missiles.

he point is, if China offer Russia something that will greatly benefit Russia, then no doubt they will take up the offer even if it threaten the security of country like Vietnam or India.

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/china-...ty-vietnams-cam-rahn-bay-4.html#ixzz2geQNrIKt

More likely that if either is under russian influence ,then Russia will bring them to the table. Russia saved india in 1971 and Russia has saved Syria from American aggression also.

Russia sticks to loyal allies . Anyways ,India's changing sides to western alliance ,so its possible once this becomes clear to russians the russians will give the brahmos codes or noise signature of arihant submarine to China ,provided Chinese buy sufficient equipment.As for vietnam -china split ,russians will be mediators in future and should help in settling disputes.

 

[BoQ77]

To China : Russia is exact the business partner, they must balance between strength the shield and not sharpen the spear of China, so they will be headache to remove something very important when sell anything to China.

But to Vietnam, India ... beside the commercial aspect, Russia could arm more to their weapon ...

An example, Yakhont or Brahmos ... Chinese never has the same offer from Russia.

Another example, Japan would offer to give Vietnam Epsilon rockets for launching satelite ourselve,
is it a threat to China ?
--------------------
As calculation : anyone imagine that Vietnam defeat French in Dien Bien Phu 1953 ? But it's reality.
anyone imagine that Vietnam could stand still under attacks by the 1st rank USAF ?

I am sure Vietnam has SOMETHING out of the calculation, I guess when going to the 3rd WW then China could do whatever they want after it. But even against a Japan with many limitations, China still feel fear.
China protest Japan grow their military, but that's China who make them do that ... then China feel fear

 

[NiceGuy]

Don't think the USA had a dog in that fight, as I remember we kind of liked Vietnam sticking it to the Chinese. American usually support the underdog.

American usually support the underdog, but in 1979, they support big boy China against small VN , but big boy still got bloody nose

The Chinese troop deployments were observed by U.S. spy satellites, and the KH-9 Big Bird photographic reconnaissance satellite played an important role.[citation needed] In his state visit to the U.S. in 1979, the Chinese paramount leader Deng Xiaoping was presented with this information and asked to confirm the numbers. He replied that the information was completely accurate. After this public confirmation in the U.S., the domestic Chinese media were finally allowed to report on these deployments
Sino-Vietnamese War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[sovcomflot]

To China : Russia is exact the business partner, they must balance between strength the shield and not sharpen the spear of China, so they will be headache to remove something very important when sell anything to China.

But to Vietnam, India ... beside the commercial aspect, Russia could arm more to their weapon ...

An example, Yakhont or Brahmos ... Chinese never has the same offer from Russia.

Another example, Japan would offer to give Vietnam Epsilon rockets for launching satelite ourselve,
is it a threat to China ?

Su-30 MKK was inferior to Su-30 MKI.

Brahmos is not as capable as Yakhonts .Yakhonts has 600 km range , while Brahmos is 280 km.

 

[noname1]

American usually support the underdog, but in 1979, they support big boy China against small VN , but big boy still got bloody nose

Can you show me any proof that US supported China, spy satellites seems to show we were confronting China with the fact they had invaded Vietnam. A secret they were keeping from the Chinese people.

 

[William Hung]

That claim I am doubtful.Because Russia helped China in non-strategic technologies which is for conventional warfare ,while it has helped India in very strategic technologies like creating nuclear submarines or supersonic sea skimming missiles.

You don't necessarily need strategic weapons to threaten the security of another country. Even those Su-27 and kilo subs sold to china is plenty enough to threaten the security of Vietnam. And I believe Russia sold all those sukhois, along with ToT, to China before India (although you guys have the better variant). You can't deny that Russia played an important role in building China's defense industry. Today, China's defense industry is stronger than yours.

 

[sovcomflot]

American usually support the underdog, but in 1979, they support big boy China against small VN , but big boy still got bloody nose

You are right.USA was militarily helping China in 1979.

US-China Cold War Collaboration: 1971-1989 - S. Mahmud Ali - Google Books

You don't necessarily need strategic weapons to threaten the security of another country. Even those Su-27 and kilo subs sold to china is plenty enough to threaten the security of Vietnam. And I believe Russia sold all those sukhois, along with ToT, to China before India (although you guys have the better variant). You can't deny that Russia played an important role in building China's defense industry. Today, China's defense industry is stronger than yours.

And the americans gave you neutron bomb and W88 warhead ,I mean clinton .Russians did not give you strategic technology.

And I believe Russia sold all those sukhois, along with ToT

Russians say it was intellectual property rights theft. China reverse engineered the Russian craft.No TOT.
And Russia was very weak then,dying literally.So it was selling weapons to China.

 

[BoQ77]

Su-30 MKK was inferior to Su-30 MKI.

Brahmos is not as capable as Yakhonts .Yakhonts has 600 km range , while Brahmos is 280 km.

Yeah, China cannot consider Russia as the weapon supplier to fight other Russia allies.
Because Kilo sub to China less feature than to Vietnam, Su30 to China is less functional compare to Vietnam, India Su-30 ...

 

[William Hung]

Russians say it was intellectual property rights theft. China reverse engineered the Russian craft.No TOT.
And Russia was very weak then,dying literally.So it was selling weapons to China.

Even if it is not a proper ToT, you still can't deny that selling license to produce hundreds of relatively hi tech aircraft is a threat to the security of neighboring countries.

Your last sentence just proves my point. If an offer benefits Russia, they will gladly take it up, regardless how it would impact her "allies."

 

[xunzi]

There is nothing to be embarrassed about for a small country to have been subjugated by a far bigger country. However it is very shameful for a big country to have been subjugated by smaller country, not only once, but numerous times throughout history.

Notice the bigger country was only able to occupy the smaller country for 1000 years during the early days? it's because they were fighting with swords and arrows in those days so victory was determined by the numbers of their soldiers. As technology progressed and victory is determined by strategy and not numbers, that big country begin to loose their ability to subjugate that smaller country and in 1979, the PLA was defeated when they tried to have dinner in Hanoi (and you're delusional if you think the PLA achieved their objective).

A faker so ashamed as his ethnicity and nationality has the ball to respond here? LOL What a joke! If you show your true self, I might take you more seriously with a response.

History book printed in China is fake, has been made to brainwash Chinese people's with full of such "spiritual victory".

We have been fought against 3 super power members in UNSC to protect our independence.

Without our history book, you wouldn't even know who your ancestors were. LOL

Yeah keep dreaming. Without our help, you aren't beating the USA in the guerrilla warfare. Oh by the way , who taught you how to fight a guerrilla warfare? It was us. Your Uncle Ho came to China for training for this specific reason! Also enjoy the 1979 border skirmish because we are very proud of the fact we regain the our island back.

 

[sovcomflot]

Even if it is not a proper ToT, you still can't deny that selling license to produce hundreds of relatively hi tech aircraft is a threat to the security of neighboring countries.

Your last sentence just proves my point. If an offer benefits Russia, they will gladly take it up, regardless how it would impact her "allies."

Only because Russian state was at the brink of another collapse and desperately needed hard currency,it sold high tech non-strategic weapons to china for hard currency. And this did not happen again till 2012-13 ,when India started shifting into western alliance.It is now again after 20 years that Russia has offered weapons to China as India has defected.

A faker so ashamed as his ethnicity and nationality has the ball to respond here? LOL What a joke! If you show your true self, I might take you more seriously with a response.


Without our history book, you wouldn't even know who your ancestors were. LOL

Yeah keep dreaming. Without our help, you aren't beating the USA in the guerrilla warfare. Oh by the way , who taught you how to fight a guerrilla warfare? It was us. Your Uncle Ho came to China for training for this specific reason! Also enjoy the 1979 border skirmish because we are very proud of the fact we regain the our island back.

Sino-vietnam war
Little territorial changes for either side; effectively uti possidetis and status quo ante bellum.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Vietnamese_War