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Russia Offers Su-35 Tech Transfer To Indonesia

Not surprised, Indonesia can't develop their own military weapons of course they need to get it from someone else.

So what? we had dough and capability to reverse engineering something albeit at much lesser level than India and China, but nevertheless we are progressing

@Indos If you are getting it with TOT than you should go for 5 squadrons of SU 35

The most probable possibility is just three squadron
 
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@Indos If you are getting it with TOT than you should go for 5 squadrons of SU 35

16 is enough for us, and I believe it will need 3-4 years for complete delivery. After these ones, it is better to have PAKFA at our inventory after 2020. No need to rush with that kind of number. Next focus is AWACS, radar and SAMs. We also still need to spare our spending with our medium tanks, frigate, and submarine production. Massive increase in jet fighters acquisition should only taken after KFX/IFX program ready in production. It is what I call wise and strategic thinking :azn:
 
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16 is enough for us, and I believe it will need 3-4 years for complete delivery. After these ones, it is better to have PAKFA at our inventory after 2020. No need to rush with that kind of number. Next focus is AWACS, radar and SAMs. We also still need to spare our spending with our medium tanks, frigate, and submarine production. Massive increase in jet fighters acquisition should only taken after KFX/IFX program ready in production. It is what I call wise and strategic thinking :azn:
The kind of things you Indonesians say sometime I want to make dua that you face something similar to what Ukraine is facing than and only than you would wake up for GOD sake you at least need 270 Fighter Jets of 4.5++ Generation than focus on IFX and get 270 of those too
 
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As long as the Su-30 family was enjoying success on the export market, having two competing airframe-builders was not a problem. As the least capable of the three, the Su-30M2 demonstrates the least potential for future growth. Indeed, there have been suggestions that Russia acquired the Su-30M2 only after airframes became surplus following the collapse of a planned sale to China.

The Su-35 boasts more powerful engines, superior radar and an advanced self-defense suite. On the other hand, the Su-30SM is more readily available, cheaper and has the advantage of two crew members, rendering it suitable for more complex combat missions as well as advanced training.
 
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With the ongoing beef with Australia, better to get Su-35 than buying Typhoon. Beside Su-35 is a better aircraft than Typhooon anyway.
 
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Su-30SM
Hallmarks of the Su-30MK that also appear in the Russian air force’s Su-30SM include two seats, canard foreplanes and thrust-vectoring engines, both allied with a sophisticated fly-by-wire flight control system. Unlike the KnAAPO jets, the Irkut-built Su-30MK and Su-30SM feature distinctive cropped tail fins.

Russia’s Defense Ministry placed a surprise order for the Su-30SM in March 2012. And in December that year the ministry doubled the initial request for 30 aircraft. Reports from the Russian media suggest that all 60 of these jets should be delivered by the end of 2015, although as of December 2013 only 16 aircraft had been handed over.

This February (2014) press reports indicted that the Defense Ministry plans to sign additional contracts worth $2 billion for the delivery of 50 more Su-30SMs. Interestingly, some, if not all, of these new fighters could end up in Russian navy service, with the first examples arriving before the end of 2015.

Compared to the export Su-30MKI, the “Russianized” Su-30SM replaces the Indian and Israeli avionics with Russian equivalents. Strangely however, most of the original French avionics—including the head-up display and navigation system—remain.

While the Su-30M2 uses the N001V radar—an evolution of the basic set in the original Su-27—the Su-30SM has the far superior N011M Bars-R with passive electronically scanned array. One unique change compared to the export-optimized Su-30MK relates to the Su-30SM’s ejection seats. These are stronger in order to cope with the heavier weight of Russian pilots.

Although we have yet to see the new-generation Sukhois carrying any truly advanced air-to-air weaponry in air force service, the Su-30SM should be able to launch the new RVV-SD beyond-visual-range missile and the short-range RVV-MD

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Su-35S
The Su-35S differs from the Su-30 family in being a single-seater. While its conceptual lineage traces back to Soviet efforts to improve the Su-27, today’s Su-35 began development in the early 2000s.

In a bid to improve performance and combat capability, the KnAAPO-built Su-35 added a new airframe, avionics outfit and powerplant. The Su-35 includes AL-41F1S engines with thrust vectoring, an advanced fly-by-wire system and new optronic suite. The canard foreplanes are gone, since other aerodynamic refinements are sufficient to achieve super-maneuverability.

While Russia still hasn’t introduced an active electronically scanned array radar—this will likely have to wait until the T-50 is ready—the Su-35S has the next best thing. The centerpiece of the avionics suite is the N135 Irbis, a follow-on to the Bars radar utilizing the same passive electronic technology.
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Instead, Moscow stepped in and ordered the Su-35S version for its own air force in 2009. The Kremlin has received 22 aircraft as of February, 12 of which 12 are now with the first front-line unit at Dzemgi. Delivery of the first batch of 48 Su-35S fighters is likely to end in 2015. Another 48-aircraft order is likely.

With its advanced equipment and capabilities, the Su-35S is perhaps the most realistic interim fighter pending the arrival of the stealthy T-50 in significant numbers. Reportedly capable of carrying the new 200-kilometer-range RVV-BD air-to-air missile, the Su-35S could also prove a viable successor to the Russian air force’s aging fleet of MiG-31 interceptors.
 
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Sukhoi Su-30SM: An Indian Gift to Russia’s Air Force

Russia’s Defense Ministry has ordered 30 heavy Sukhoi Su-30SM fighter planes. Given that the same model has been exported to India for more than 10 years, this choice seems both logical and pragmatic.

Thirty 30’s

The Defense Ministry and the Irkut Corporation, an affiliate of the United Aircraft Corporation, have signed a supply contract for 30 Su-30SM multirole fighter aircraft, a Defense Ministry spokesman told journalists Thursday, March 22. “Under the contract, Irkut Corporation will build for Russia’s Ministry of Defense 30 planes of this type by 2015,” he said.

Rumors that Irkut, a long-standing exporter, may supply several dozen fighter aircraft to the Russian Air Force began circulating late last year. Now the rumor has become a reality – a contract in black and white.
But why did the Defense Ministry choose the Su-30’s? After all, they have been mostly supplied to customers abroad rather than to the Russian Armed Forces, where just a few planes of this type are in use.
The Su-30, properly speaking, is an entire family of aircraft and the most famous Russian-made (not to be confused with Soviet-made) fighter plane outside of Russia. It was developed in the Soviet Union on the basis of the Su-27UB combat trainer aircraft as a command plane for Air Defense air regiments flying ordinary Su-27 interceptor aircraft.
In 1993, its export version, the Su-30K, was developed, sparking record demand and the sale of several hundred planes.
The family is further subdivided into two parts: the “Chinese” Su-30MKK/MK2, which were produced in Komsomolsk-on-Amur and exported to Venezuela, Indonesia, Uganda, Vietnam, and of course China; and the “Indian” Su-30MKI, manufactured in Irkutsk and purchased by India, Algeria and Malaysia.

The model ordered by the Russian military is a “localized” version of the “Indian” Su-30MKI. Earlier, Komsomolsk-on-Amur delivered to the Air Force four “localized” Su-30MK2’s.

A flying multi-tasker

As a basic platform for the multirole heavy fighter aircraft, the Su-30MKI is remarkable primarily for its universality. It boasts a so-called “open architecture”, making it relatively easy to add new systems in the basic electronic equipment and to use advanced guided weapons (supplied by different manufacturers).

The Su-30MKI sports a Russian radar and optic locator, French navigation and heads-up display systems, Israeli EW and weapon-guidance systems, and Indian computers.
The “Chinese” line is based on a different logic that prescribes parallel installation of new systems that fall short of full integration.
Most likely, the military is attracted by how easy it is to add different weapons and equipment to the Su-30MKI, transforming it into an attack fighter-bomber, a heavy interceptor aircraft, or something else.

Who placed the order?
It is hard to pinpoint who exactly ordered these 30 aircraft. The contract was signed by Defense Minister Anatoly Serdyukov and Irkut President Alexei Fedorov. After the signing ceremony, Serdyukov commented that the planes would “increase the Air Force’s combat power.”
By contrast, Fedorov went on record as saying last summer that the Defense Ministry was going to order 40 aircraft. Later the press reported, citing the Irkutsk aircraft plant’s general director Alexander Veprev, that the deliveries were likely to be made in two installments: the first 28 aircraft were intended for the Air Force and another 12 as an option for naval aviation. Air Force C-in-C Alexander Zelin confirmed the figure of 28 in fall 2011.
As we can see, the first batch of Sukhoi-30’s has been purchased. The remaining 12, as some military sources intimated to the press, were intended for the Black Sea Fleet’s naval aviation.
Given that naval aviation has seen cuts in combat aircraft, it seems logical to reinforce it with heavy Su-30SM two-seaters that are efficient both in air-to-air combat and against ground and surface targets.
Thus far, however, there is no mention of plans to buy the Su-30 for the Navy. Possibly the option will be realized later.

Exporters’ courtesy

There is another simple explanation for choice of the Su-30MKI. Irkut has been churning out these planes for 10 years thanks to its completely streamlined production method. This means that its products are of high quality, relatively cheap (which pleases the Defense Ministry in particular) and will be supplied on time.
It is one thing if, in order to make 30 aircraft, you have to breathe life into an idling plant, to fine-tune (or develop anew) your technological method, buy additional equipment, and – still worse – hire personnel. But it’s quite another if you have been manufacturing standardized aircraft for years and years and can easily divert your workforce to produce an “improved” modification for your own country’s Air Force. The cost of this batch on the side is dramatically lower.
This approach (buying quickly and on the cheap what can be produced immediately) has been growing in popularity in the Russian military. We have mentioned the Su-30M2 combat trainer aircraft intended for the Russian Air Force. The same goes for the carrier-based MiG-29K, which in its present form was developed for the Indian Navy.
This approach is logical in its own way. The military expects certain fundamentally new models that are being tested with some degree of success. The Air Force is eying the T-50, the fifth-generation fighter aircraft, and the Navy has been trying to get into shape its Lada project involving the construction of non-nuclear submarines. The Land Forces have boycotted the purchases of all currently existing armor models, urging manufacturers to invent something totally new.
In the meantime, the Armed Forces will buy cheap, mass-produced, well-equipped, if ordinary, military hardware, like the Su-30SM.

Read more: WORLD DEFENSE REVIEW: Sukhoi Su-30SM: An Indian Gift to Russia’s Air Force
 
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1. Russia has shown its willingness to give TOT formally as the report said, and the context that is playing now is the fact that we are currently developing our own fighter program along with South Korea. So we need to get any technical benefit from any current purchase of fighter plane that we want to buy. For your information, Typhoon has already offered us TOT in huge way even though they also know that we only need 16 planes.

2. Our future plan is to have huge numbers of fighters, it will likely be only two type and one of them should be KFX/IFX, the rest will be heavy fighter that can attack deep target. Based on recent plan, we will acquire 80 units of IFX. So Russia is likely to think in long term context in term of offering us TOT in this deal.

3 Just like what has been said by Spain foreign minister recently on behalf of Typhoon consortium, they are also interested to offer their avionics for our IFX fighter program ( our KFX version ). So, every body is interested to deepen their cooperation with us as early as it can. Not only talking about current deal, but also future one.

4. Geopolitics consideration and current Russia economic situation

Compatibility

We have already had 16 Sukhoi 27/ 30 which is actually a base plane from where Su 35 get developed. We are happy with Sukhoi family thats why we want to add the number.

My reply was against your assertion that "your order is not big just only 16 planes". Now you are saying that your future plan is to make large number of planes which takes the subject into a different direction. For larger numbers and functional requirements of long range patrolling and strike again Su30/35 series is a better option since you already operate a sqd strength and will have all the necessary training and infrastructure to induct the planes easily.
 
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My reply was against your assertion that "your order is not big just only 16 planes". Now you are saying that your future plan is to make large of planes which takes the subject into a different direction. For larger numbers and functional requirements of long range patrolling and strike again Su30/35 series is a better option since you already operate a sqd strength and will have all the necessary training and infrastructure to induct the planes easily.

What does your post mean ? Suggesting us to add more Su 27/30 than Su 35 ?

There are many variable to consider as I have mentioned earlier, not only just adding large number of heavy fighters

We need Su 35 since it has technology that can be matched with 5 generation one. Those technology is needed for KFX program. It is also useful if we have them, which is to asses and learn this type of fighter first before making 5 generation one.
 
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If i were Indonesian top brass i will be more considering Eurofighter consortium offer of line production assembly and transfer technology scheme as their partnership and transfer technology to us had been proven with the manufacturing of CN-235 series and Euro helicopter series like Fennec and Cougar.
do you know the cost of a typhoon? it is extremly expensive. if you are willing to pay estimated 180 million euro a piece, plus operations cost per hour 80,000 euro, then it is ok.

even a rich country as germany thinks twice. initially germany planned to acquire 180 typhoons, now only 103.
 
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My reply was against your assertion that "your order is not big just only 16 planes". Now you are saying that your future plan is to make large of planes which takes the subject into a different direction. For larger numbers and functional requirements of long range patrolling and strike again Su30/35 series is a better option since you already operate a sqd strength and will have all the necessary training and infrastructure to induct the planes easily.

we had requirement for further three more squadron of fighter before 2024, but at least we want to induct one squadron of the best fighter out there before decided if we want to induct more as follow on order

do you know the cost of a typhoon? if you are willing to pay estimated 180 million euro a piece, plus operations cost per hour 80,000 euro.

even if a rich country as germany thinks twice. initially germany planned to acquire 180 typhoons, now only 103.

I had said it before, the Air Force has made estimation if they can operated and financed at least three squadron of highly performance fighter such as F-16 block 60, Eurofighter or Flanker E in 2016 onward beside their requirement for at least another 6 to 8 combined workhorse fighter such as F-16 C/D block 32 and light fighter such as Hawk series.
 
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we had requirement for further three more squadron of fighter before 2024, but at least we want to induct one squadron of the best fighter out there before decided if we want to induct more as follow on order

I had said it before, the Air Force has made estimation if they can operated and financed at least three squadron of highly performance fighter such as F-16 block 60, Eurofighter or Flanker E in 2016 onward beside their requirement for at least another 6 to 8 combined workhorse fighter such as F-16 C/D block 32 and light fighter such as Hawk series.
typhoon has an outdated design as it was developed during the cold war. no stealth. why not opt for f-35? the latter is even cheaper. well, more or less. for me, the choice is clear.

typhoon
EF_Germany_620x400.jpg


f-35
1200x-1.jpg
 
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typhoon has an outdated design as it was developed during the cold war. no stealth. why not opt for f-35? the latter is even cheaper. well, more or less. for me, the choice is clear.

typhoon
EF_Germany_620x400.jpg


f-35
1200x-1.jpg

Their offset offer, the Eurofighter companies giving offer for assembly line of Typhoon in Indonesia (to fulfill our need for at least three to four squadron of fighter) and the freedom for updating and modified the software and even some hardware in accordance to our needs almost the similar offer like CN-235 and CN-295 production line in PT DI.
 
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The kind of things you Indonesians say sometime I want to make dua that you face something similar to what Ukraine is facing than and only than you would wake up for GOD sake you at least need 270 Fighter Jets of 4.5++ Generation than focus on IFX and get 270 of those too

Brother,

Indonesia is not surrounded by hostile neighbors. She is not in the same predicament as a India-Pakistan, South Korea-North Korea, China-Japan situation where everyone has at least 200+ aircraft. Indonesia borders Brunei, Malaysia, Thailand, and to an extent Australia. Indonesia is a fraternal country with ASEAN, as both are part of an economic and political block. Tho Indonesia and Australia may disagree on some security issues, they both are partners for peace in the Pacific-Oceania region; there are no contentions for war. Zilch. Indonesia really has no 'enemies', and she is capitalizing on that strategic reality by focusing on internal / demographic development.

You are looking at a nation that will soon become a middle income state in a decades time. Indonesia , truly, is a shining example of a responsible , robust democracy.

Indonesia is also developing warmer relations with the United States, and already has an extremely warm partnership with Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, and a good relationship with China. She has an enviable position !!!!
 
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Brother,

Indonesia is not surrounded by hostile neighbors. She is not in the same predicament as a India-Pakistan, South Korea-North Korea, China-Japan situation where everyone has at least 200+ aircraft. Indonesia borders Brunei, Malaysia, Thailand, and to an extent Australia. Indonesia is a fraternal country with ASEAN, as both are part of an economic and political block. Tho Indonesia and Australia may disagree on some security issues, they both are partners for peace in the Pacific-Oceania region; there are no contentions for war. Zilch. Indonesia really has no 'enemies', and she is capitalizing on that strategic reality by focusing on internal / demographic development.

You are looking at a nation that will soon become a middle income state in a decades time. Indonesia , truly, is a shining example of a responsible , robust democracy.
Mr in this world you never know even Russia was not hostile to Ukraine two years ago all of a sudden it attacked them Indonesia can have really high tensions with China and Australia any time and also few other countries they are in really volatile region so better if they are prepared
 
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