Road to Islamic State was paved by America's Faustian bargain with Saudi Wahhabism

[Juicer]

First of all, If you are gonna use sunni books to further your argument I hope you actually do believe in these books which you are quoting. Otherwise you are just another one of your kind. The hadiths you have mentioned to my surprise are correct. But you are surely using them to misguide people. First of all, I don't understand your personal enmity(arse-itch) with Mohammed Abdulwahab. Why you need to make it sound like he is some kind of a founder of some new religion. Why is the need for this impression when he clearly never introduced anything new in religion while conveying his concept of oneness in Allah and following the sahih sunnah of the prophet. What he did was reinstated the core of the religion in the times of high vulnerability in the Muslim world during the ottoman empire. I invite you to tell me as you claimed that following Abdulwahab needs you to kill other muslims and be barbaric. Aren't you forgetting the barbaric actions of Iranians. If truly you are Iranian I don't need to shed light on it. Dont you forget the mass murders of sunnis in Iran or the fact that your forefathers were forced to become a shia or die or exile. Abdulwahab didnt introduce anything new or force anyone to agree with him or be dead.

except Quran , there is no 100% "Correct" Book for us .... actually we are cautious with our Hadith books as well , while we consider writer of those books as good and faithful men ...

you are considering your Hadith books as "Correct" books , so we just using it in debate with you while we don't believe these books being completely "Correct" ....

we have our own Hadith books and for your knowledge , those books are giant compare to yours and we use those books with cautious because nor writer of those books nor our scholar dared to claim those books are 100% Correct ...
and they always said to not accept an Hadith without proper research ...

 

[Baloch Pakistani]

Your lack of arguments has forced you to resort to stupid poems. Still waiting for your reply.

Stupid poem? Jo le lay wo stupid ho geya? that stupid poem just defined your aqeeda very brilliantly, whether you call it stupid or not. Thats what wahabism is, the source of terrorism and takfir.

 

[Arsalan mehmud]

I also strongly believe that ISIS was funded by Saudis and created by CIA and MOSSAD...

 

[LfcRed]

Stupid poem? Jo le lay wo stupid ho geya? that stupid poem just defined your aqeeda very brilliantly, whether you call it stupid or not. Thats what wahabism is, the source of terrorism and takfir.

I inderstand your frustration. When you dont have anything else to further your lost argument and also dont wanna look desperate.

I will ask you the same question. What is a wahabi? Dont answer me followers of abdulwahab. What actions make one a wahabi.

 

[LfcRed]

except Quran , there is no 100% "Correct" Book for us .... actually we are cautious with our Hadith books as well , while we consider writer of those books as good and faithful men ...

you are considering your Hadith books as "Correct" books , so we just using it in debate with you while we don't believe these books being completely "Correct" ....

we have our own Hadith books and for your knowledge , those books are giant compare to yours and we use those books with cautious because nor writer of those books nor our scholar dared to claim those books are 100% Correct ...
and they always said to not accept an Hadith without proper research ...

I second that. I wouldnt alao believe in your books when they are a pile of selective hadiths collected by sunni scholars without the criteria of it being sahih or da'eef. We avoid following the da'eef hadith without calling them wrong. The scholars of hadith have a very strict criteria before declaring a hadith sahih and without any doubt. After Quran we are continuously analzying them and believe them to be correct. Any hadith that contradicts the quran and hadith is discarded regardless of the narrator. In your books there isnt a complete chain of narrators or considered very weak narrators by sunni scholars.

I have heard many shias to question the authenticity of the Quran let alone the books of hadith.

 

[Juicer]

I second that. I wouldnt alao believe in your books when they are a pile of selective hadiths collected by sunni scholars without the criteria of it being sahih or da'eef. We avoid following the da'eef hadith without calling them wrong. The scholars of hadith have a very strict criteria before declaring a hadith sahih and without any doubt. After Quran we are continuously analzying them and believe them to be correct. Any hadith that contradicts the quran and hadith is discarded regardless of the narrator. In your books there isnt a complete chain of narrators or considered very weak narrators by sunni scholars.

I have heard many shias to question the authenticity of the Quran let alone the books of hadith.

Sunni Scholars are not reliable source because they are biased .... we have our ways of proven the correctness of an Hadith and IMO it it more logical than yours ....

your second paragraph was an old tactic used by Sunnis : " Shia don't believe in quran , they are Kaffir and we shouldn't talk to them ... "

and where you saw those Shiia !?

I believe in Qurran but we use our own method to interpret its holy verses and use it in our real life and due all respect , you Sunni are using it in wrong way !!!

 

[Baloch Pakistani]

I inderstand your frustration. When you dont have anything else to further your lost argument and also dont wanna look desperate.

I will ask you the same question. What is a wahabi? Dont answer me followers of abdulwahab. What actions make one a wahabi.

I can understand your blindness since you are a wahabi, so you can never read and understand the clear words and ask the same idiotic question again and again. REad the peom again my wahabi fellow. It contains the answer for you very clearly. You are a misguided creed that fosters intolerance, promotes simplistic theology, and restricts Islam's capacity for adaption to diverse and shifting circumstances.The follower of the teachings of ibn wahab is a wahabi who tells everybody that every thing is bidat and bidati is kafir (even though it is as little as touching maqam e ibrahim with love) and everybody is wajib ul qatal except a wahabi (you guys are proving this with your actions). And you call yazid your caliph and follow him and you guys have doubts about the shahadat of hazrat hussain. And your grand leader ibn taymiya was a nasibi, so i can understand your love for yazid.

Wahabism= The source of terrorism against muslims.

 

[Ice Cube]

You are surely on an agenda. Otherwise you wouldnt show this picture to point at muslims. First of all there women wear the burqa according to their cultural standards. No one wears any such thing in the arab world. Secondly hitting your wife is forbidden in Islam and he is sinful in doing so. Domt try to give it another picture.

not muslims, only against the extremist ones, but this thing is culturally incompatible with anywhere on earth apart from saudia maybe.

nobody asking you to show skin and work the corner, at least dress normal in a 21st century way.. also, coward terrorists are known to hide in those so it is a real security risk, hope the crazy people don't attack the Swiss now.

 

[LfcRed]

not muslims, only against the extremist ones, but this thing is culturally incompatible with anywhere on earth apart from saudia maybe.

nobody asking you to show skin and work the corner, at least dress normal in a 21st century way.. also, coward terrorists are known to hide in those so it is a real security risk, hope the crazy people don't attack the Swiss now.

And who made you the judge as to who is compatible , normal or not. Why do you have a problem with any muslim country for the way they live. No one asking you to live with them. And if you or anyone else doesnt like the rule of the land, care to migrate to wherever you feel the most liberal.

Your crazies are just getting the taste of your own medicine. Creating all this terror in other countries and hoping to stay clear of it is a nice fantasy. You created the dish to serve it to someone else. Guess what unfortunately it is coming on your own face.

 

[LfcRed]

I can understand your blindness since you are a wahabi, so you can never read and understand the clear words and ask the same idiotic question again and again. REad the peom again my wahabi fellow. It contains the answer for you very clearly. You are a misguided creed that fosters intolerance, promotes simplistic theology, and restricts Islam's capacity for adaption to diverse and shifting circumstances.The follower of the teachings of ibn wahab is a wahabi who tells everybody that every thing is bidat and bidati is kafir (even though it is as little as touching maqam e ibrahim with love) and everybody is wajib ul qatal except a wahabi (you guys are proving this with your actions). And you call yazid your caliph and follow him and you guys have doubts about the shahadat of hazrat hussain. And your grand leader ibn taymiya was a nasibi, so i can understand your love for yazid.

Wahabism= The source of terrorism against muslims.

Again a desperate attempt to win the argument. When did I ever call anyone or you kafir. You need to underatand what is part of the faith and how it is dealt with. Not deal with all circumstances with the same mindset. So until now we have established:

1- wahabi are followers of abdulwahab. (Surprising)
2-everone is bidati.
3-everyone is wajid ul qatal
4-yazid oir caliph.
5- That ibn taymiya destroyed your family business.

Great discovery until now. Why dont you stop embarassing yourself further. You have lost the plot a long time ago. Not only you have nothing else to further your argument also you are gob smacked but shamelessly Pakistani enough to resort to fabrications on other groups and do exactly the same as you define a wahabi. Your definition further shows your ignorance to the topic in hand. You have learnt a new word from your local maulvi and just hurl it around at people because you dont understand its meaning and you are desperate to make it fit any and everywhere. Take caution with your obsession towards abdulwahab or some wahabi might come in your dreams to haunt you. You have nothing to sensibly argue about the points i mentioned to answer your doubts. Your blind hatred might not let you realize it.

 

[TruthSeeker]

Those talking piece of shit against Salafism or what MUHAMMAD BIN ABDUL WAHAB promoted or said or wrote have actually not even read his work. I was a Barelvi or in other words follower of so called Sufism but when I looked for proof from Quran and Sunnah I found none but when I read books of MUHAMMAD bin ABDUL WAHAB and books written by Salafi scholars all they did was quoted Quran and Sunnah. So try to proof the wrong from Quran and Sunnah if you can't than please keep quite. @a_b

You hit the nail on the head! So-called "radical" Islam is actually the religion, "Islam", brought to the world by Muhammad himself (PBUH). If anyone has a problem with the behavior of ISIS or other jihadis in this world, you have a problem with real, true, 100% ISLAM. It's not RADICAL, it's Islam. The brand of "Islam" that the West prefers is watered down Islam, like Sufiism or Ahmadiyyah or Baha'i.

 

[Zarvan]

You hit the nail on the head! So-called "radical" Islam is actually the religion, "Islam", brought to the world by Muhammad himself (PBUH). If anyone has a problem with the behavior of ISIS or other jihadis in this world, you have a problem with real, true, 100% ISLAM. It's not RADICAL, it's Islam. The brand of "Islam" that the West prefers is watered down Islam, like Sufiism or Ahmadiyyah or Baha'i.

No what ISIS is doing it's not Islam you are don't have any idea about Islam.

 

[EAsian]

You forget Turkey.Erdorgan's son is selling petrol for ISIL.They are one of the biggest supporters of ISIL.

 

[Baloch Pakistani]

Again a desperate attempt to win the argument. When did I ever call anyone or you kafir. You need to underatand what is part of the faith and how it is dealt with. Not deal with all circumstances with the same mindset. So until now we have established:

1- wahabi are followers of abdulwahab. (Surprising)
2-everone is bidati.
3-everyone is wajid ul qatal
4-yazid oir caliph.
5- That ibn taymiya destroyed your family business.

Great discovery until now. Why dont you stop embarassing yourself further. You have lost the plot a long time ago. Not only you have nothing else to further your argument also you are gob smacked but shamelessly Pakistani enough to resort to fabrications on other groups and do exactly the same as you define a wahabi. Your definition further shows your ignorance to the topic in hand. You have learnt a new word from your local maulvi and just hurl it around at people because you dont understand its meaning and you are desperate to make it fit any and everywhere. Take caution with your obsession towards abdulwahab or some wahabi might come in your dreams to haunt you. You have nothing to sensibly argue about the points i mentioned to answer your doubts. Your blind hatred might not let you realize it.

Prove me wrong then. Cut this bullcrap.

1- wahabi are followers of abdulwahab. (Surprising to you, you might like to call your self a yazidi)
2-everone is bidati.
3-everyone is wajid ul qatal
4-yazid is your caliph.
5- That ibn taymiya destroyed your family business ( Desparation? Ibn e taymiya that nasibi?).

Are you guys not the root cause of terrorism? Thats the result of the teachings of ibn wahab. Actions speak louder than words. Al qaeda, isis, taliban etc. And why are they killing everyone? Bcz thats what your mother state terrorist saudi arabia and ibn wahab tought them that everyone is kafir and everything is shirk. Prove me wrong one by one.

 

[LfcRed]

Prove me wrong then. Cut this bullcrap.

1- wahabi are followers of abdulwahab. (Surprising to you, you might like to call your self a yazidi)
2-everone is bidati.
3-everyone is wajid ul qatal
4-yazid is your caliph.
5- That ibn taymiya destroyed your family business ( Desparation? Ibn e taymiya that nasibi?).

Are you guys not the root cause of terrorism? Thats the result of the teachings of ibn wahab. Actions speak louder than words. Al qaeda, isis, taliban etc. And why are they killing everyone? Bcz thats what your mother state saudi arabia and ibn wahab tought them that everyone is kafir and everything is shirk. Prove me wrong one by one.

1- I dont care who was abdulwahab. The point is whom to follow who brings clear proof and logic to you as to what is right or wrong. Abdulwahab was one of the revivers of Islam and tried to bring people to the right path when they started building shrines over graves. His greatest work was to define the oneness of Allah and what things to avoid. If you have something against him, feel free to quote his words from any of his work. Just stop spewimg the propoganda. No one tries to quote him that this material is wrong. They just have a scapegoat to chalk all the ills in muslims these days.

2- When did anyone say everyone is bidati. The point in religion is to do whatever in it with proof from the Quran, life of the prophet and the rightly guided companions. If someone brings you authentic proof and logic without any bias then you should welcome it. If there are any difference of opinion choose what seems right to you. If you cannot prove your additions in religion with sound proof then you might be innovating something in it and as the prophet said every innovation is going astray and leads to hellfire. I myself am trying to show you the reason and logic behind the misconceptions you mentioned. If you would like to take it is up to you. There is no compulsion in religion. And how will it benefit me if you started considering my opinion as correct. There is no competition as i dont even know you. I have to answer for myself not for you. All i can do is advice and provide you proof then if whoever is wrong has to answer to Allah as to why he rejected the truth. If you bring me something more authentic or logical i will follow you. It is all about improving as an ummah.

3- No one can declare anyone wajib ul qatal and then kill anyone. Never have any great scholars of Islam claimed that. And no one can declare anyone kafir at the same time. These two can only be done by the muslim ruler or the qadi of sound Islamic knowledge appointed to carry out sentences according to the law of the land. And to your surprise I havent seen any other people more than pakistanis accusing other muslims to be kafir who arent even wahabi per se.

4- You know the stance of ahl al sunnah towards yazid. We have a concensus to neither praise nor curse him. His matter rests with Allah. All the fabrications and tweaks done to the story of the martyrdom of imam Hussain can no longer let us make a sound decision on the status of yazid. His contribution in this brutal martyrdom cannot be accurately measured. As i said you wont be asked why didnt you abuse or curse a person. But you will be accountable for why did you curse any person. So safe side we keep our silence in these matters when no one knows the complete truth.

5- My personal advice to you. Dont get drawn into the false propoganda that he said something against Ali. Most of his quotes are taken out of context. Another thing to note is that most of his quotes taken out of context were answers to the claims by shia exaggerating his status. They are the root of this propoganda and if you have anything you need clarification about his work. I can try help you with that. He is one of the credible sunni scholars and revivers of islam against the shias who took every opportunity to distort facts to suit their perspective. Even sufis furthered the shia propoganda against him. His close companions state his love for the ahl ul bait and he had no nothing personal or enmity with Ali. No muslim has anything against the messenger and his rightly guided companions. We respect all of them and no one dares to speak against anyone of them and there is nothing to speak against.

If saudia is the mother state of terrorism why are they one of the richest and most stable country in the world with the highest foreign reserves. Rather think about it if they are the mother of this extremist ideology how come they are the least affected. When according to you most of them are extremists. Dont take this oppotunity to brand a terrorist organization with a sect when it isnt any. Terrorists are terrorists. There are bad apples in muslims all over the world.