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Rising Islamophobia and hatred in the UK

Good you didn't mention me. Not hate here at all.

I hope this isn't considered off topic but.... I expected Chinese to treat us good here, considering Pak China bhai bhai. But whites are so much better. Forget whites, hindus and sikhs live here as if Pakistan and India are one country. But the Chinese dislike Indians here too.

In Canada, we don't believe there is islamophobia just because 1 in a million mistreats us here. In fact, many whites laugh with us about the crazy people.


Remember, just because a few decide to blow themselves doesn't mean every muslim is terrorist. Similarly, just because a few decide to spew hate doesn't mean there exists islamophobia.

Also when I was in UK for a short visit, I didn't feel discriminated. I was in Germany and stayed there for a while and spoke to fellows who also said absolute no discrimination, only one or two incident. Same thing in France. In fact, I was treated VERY good in France.

Please don't take it personally, I have no problem remembering 1,000 useless facts about the world, names I'm bad with. I also wanted to target this at people in the UK.

I've seen the British Pakistani community in Canada, US, France, Germany, Belgium etc...

But nowhere is it as bad as it is in the UK. We're an utter disgrace to all, including ourselves.

In the UK, I have not EVER felt close to being discriminated against, only time I've heard racism out in the open is when walking with a friend of mine, almost a decade ago, a little white kid called my friend 'bloody Indian', that's it.

I've never heard anything since, this country is truly great. But even it's limits are being tested and one can see that judging form the response on social media people have had since the Lee Rigby murder.

I thought money and living standards will lead to less radicalised population.

It certainly does, but our people are lazy, don't work hard, don't play hard, don't venture or work outside their own communities and don't adopt the customs needed to earn a great living which is essential. As for the rest of your post, well said.
 
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The kind of stories one get from UK, i am surprised they toke this long to wake up. There is huge problem with Pakistani UK community.
 
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Okay, so I'll give you my view of why we're so prone to extremism. You have to understand, it's one thing to have a community with very vulnerable people in it who are easy targets to criminal activities, gangs, extremists ideology etc.

As such there are vulnerability factors to be considered. But the way we see it as Muslims, these vulnerability factors as something we as Muslims need to deal with in the very first instance that they arise. This is because it is one thing to be prone/vulnerable to these sort of things, another to adopt in principle and then a whole other level is to act on it.

Now what causes us to bridge the gap? Conflicts, and the response to those conflicts by extremists, and the response of the far-right in turn, and so on, every action cases an equal and opposite reaction (Newton was right after all), and it's a downward spiral. I don#t need to tell you that after 9/11, whether Muslims did anything or not, they were going to be hated and targeted by some people, it was an inevitability. I don't need to tell you that Muslims in their thousands have been deeply angered by the action of their governments in Afghanistan, before the Iraq war Muslims and non Muslim Brits marched side by side in their hundreds of thousands, you know in London we had 1 million people march against the war? It broke a few records if I remember correctly. Then there's the Israel Palestine conflict, the usual meddling in the middle east, Pakistan and so on.

Now me and you, we're contributors to the democratic way of life here in our countries, we march, we make our voice heard in the media, we blog, we tweet, we sign petitions, we vote. We exercise the ultimate power granted to us by law. Others, they skip and go straight to opposing the state itself, the vulnerability plays a key role where someone does make that huge leap from nothing to full blown extremist.

Now, what are these vulnerability factors?

For one, the Muslim community and the British Pakistani community in many areas has completely failed to integrate with others, some areas there's almost like an unofficial segregation in order. Where we moved to back in the 60's and 70's, we set up communities, along with other immigrants, the property value of those places ''fell'' (it didn't fall but it didn't rise as sharply, White British families moved out, we set up our communities along with Hindu/Sikh Indians, sometimes with Afro-Caribbean communities too. In these communities, we lives among ourselves and people like us, we spoke our language most often in the streets, we worked among ourselves, and our children were raised there too. Now you and I know that back when Pakistanis were brought over here, who they were, and what they were here for. They were unskilled and uneducated laborers most of them, many of whom couldn't adjust in Pakistan, let alone being thrown in the middle of England.

Another problem with this was that many Pakistanis still today if you ask them in Pakistan, they will expect people here in England to all live the high life, live the easy life and not have to work for it. The help that the government provides for it's citizens Pakistanis take for granted and don't like to understand who pays for it and how. Free-loading, living on benefits and handouts. Not bothering to work outside of their communities (which means lower pay), not bothering to work at all, having women stay in homes and not work, having their daughters not focus on education, raising them to be housewives, have you any idea how much a mother affects what her child becomes? If she's got a sub-standard 10th grade education in a country like the UK, her children will most likely be left way behind. I've met mothers here who have no idea what their children do, they teach them how to recite the Qur'an, have large families, but when you ask them what their child is doing in school, they won't have a clue, you ask them what their kid is doing out on the streets so late, they won't know. You ask them what they wan't for their daughter, husband and children will be on their lips, and not school/college/university or job.

All this means we have people who can barely speak a word of English, who refuse to work, who raise their children in a very bad way, and those children then go on to do more or less the same, entire generations of socially vulnerable families being raised, all it takes is a few radicals in the mix to spoil and already dead bunch.

One of the problems I've witnessed with many Muslims, whether they're educated or not, successful or not, if they are religious, I'd bet a few things on them right off the bat. They have a terrible superiority complex and the ones that don't show it, most certainly have it in their subconscious. Only a few are free of this. They feel that their religion is supreme, and that all their affairs inside the home or outside should revolve around their religion. All of it should revolve around THEIR own religion, little do they know that this sorta shit doesn't fly well in most secular societies. They are also deeply mistakes in the sense that they view their own UNDERSTANDING of their religion as supreme, 'I know my religion better than you and you'd better believe, the Qur'an says this..., hadith says that..., this a sunnah, and that my brother is haram!'.

Little do they know that they know nothing.

you-know-nothing-06-0313-400x300.jpg


They don't half as much as they think they know about their religion, but their confidence in themselves is vile.

And then to top it all off, they think that because their religion is their way of life, they don't have to abide by social norms and laws of their host country. You have so many people who disobey little rules here and there, only kept from crime because the threat the police and law carries. Now, if you consider what I've just told you above you arrive at another damning fact about British Pakistanis and some Muslims, they hold not loyalty to their host country. You tell me now, will a man who isn't loyal to his country do anything to benefit anyone but himself and his foolish pride?

Then we have the age old, centuries old problem of a broken community of Muslims, different mosques in my same areas can't get along, we have an Afghan mosque where some Indian Muslims go too, and a Pakistani mosque a larger one, in a rude way I heard one Indian Muslim who said that the mosque I go to is a '**** msoque' so he goes to the Afghan one. If Muslims can't sort out petty differences, how do you expect them to set them aside at a national level, make a unified voice heard and make a unified effort to combat extremism. The only thing that has EVER united the Muslim community is solidarity for Gaza, charity to some extent and that is just about it.

What is needed in my opinion is a big effort by educated, successful young people in the UK. I tried this a while ago and got no response from anyone, I tried contacting my local university Islamic society, that worked, they were interested, I had less resources at hand back then and the society was in shambles, no leadership, no structure, just a bunch of badge wearing people, I tried to pressure them into contacting other societies, raise some sort of effort even in their local areas to combat extremism, go to their local mosques, prayer rooms even, do something, let the relevant social media and general media know what you're doing, raise awareness. It amounted to a bit of work by myself and a few friends and allegedly some people up in Nottingham and Birmingham, but nothing worth mentioning.

We need to stop abusing the system here and start using it in a productive and positive way to ruthlessly stamp out extremists from our own ranks, make a clear division for all to see between us and those types and support causes loyal to our nation, change the image of Muslims, or at the very least reverse, stop or even slow down the trend of hate. Huge individual effort is the first step and then organization and unity where it is needed must be employed effectively. And we CANNOT have local mosques leaders starting this, they are not right for this effort, well adjusted, educated, well integrated young professional Muslims and students need to lead the effort and it is a dire need, ideally, we should have started this years ago.

Very well said. And these are exactly my thoughts.
 
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its racism in just another name....

It has gone above and beyond, this is highly targeted, very open kind of hate. And it goes beyond just racist comments and attitudes, entire campaigns have been set up sometimes lone individuals and organised entities acting against all Muslims.

Thanks Jungi for tagging me. This issue tears me apart but my take is very clear and simple. My intention is not to offend anyone but just to share my opinion. My observations about Pakistani community doest not really matter so take lightly. As many of you, I have also lived in other countries before settling in UK. What I found is that UK has no issue accepting us, giving us freedom to speak, freedom to practice religion, free to get education, similar rights as natives and the list goes on. There is NO muslim country which equates UK for what UK has given to us. You cannot have and will never have any rights in our beloved and to an extent a secular country, UAE, to raise your voice even in sharia court. Point is how we have taken this freedom as? Lets quickly go back to the early years of migration.

Most of us came here in early 60s, 70s as labour class, we all know that. This class was not groomed or educated and in turn the next generation (mostly) followed the same path with the only difference that they knew speaking English well with British or 'some' accent. They were still not into educational, cultural or recreational activities and did not contribute anything fruitful to this country apart from working in factories, taxi drivers etc. In our society, least education itself leads you to become stereotypical with an added factor of urge of knowing religion to the point you don't even have slightest idea how to implement that extra religious knowledge in your life. This urge divided Pakistani community into barelvis and deobandis just like in Pakistan. Both sects engulfed that generation suffering from identity crisis. Here started the marathon of hatred towards other sects and other religions and Pakistanis gradually moving towards walling themselves off from few existed educated Pakistanis as well as natives. Deobandis took shelter under Saudi wahabism while barelvis under pir mureed. Third and fourth generations adopted either narcotic banditism/other criminal acts or religious fanaticism from peers. An additional majority were simply indifferent and went into lets-look-like-Arabs and sheesha culture. A last herd took advantage of what this country given them and went to universities to have a respected identity. Elder generation found their ways to get welfare money from government. Manipulative mentality prevailed. What followed was nil contribution to the society and government, secterian and religious intolerance, unhealthy and unfruitful group of people, how to implement sharia and khilafa in UK debates and their solutions, rise in criminal and terrorist activities to show their existence etc. The country which has given you all the rights will surely choose to defend herself from aliens who want to hijack the rights of natives and other population. For that, politically, they mixed up the good and the bad in the name of nation awareness on terrorism which is actually building of a global psychological mindset of common man about Islam. Later EDL emerged as unofficial right wing. And they had every right to defend...

In the light of above-mentioned facts the only solution is to keep our next generation away from religion!!! Yes, stop them getting anything from madrassah and crush the so called good which is causing evil. I always ask my religious buddies: what is the need of getting religious education which you will never implement in your daily life? Today, you are branding muslims as mushriks, kafirs after reading some out of context ayats and ahadees. What about our ancestors who just laid a simple life, praying/not praying, fasting/not fasting and now lying in their graves; were they not muslims if we follow your analogy? And not least what good these religious patriachs have given to a common Muslim, leave goras aside? Answer: nil/sannata or bla bla! Back to our ancestors, they were simple, didn't know much about religion, didn't go to state of the art Islamic centers of today, yet there were less problems among them. This certainly means the formula of religion we follow in our homes is sufficient enough for us to lay a normal life which in addition gives time for our children to get educated in colleges and unis. No wonder excessive questioning and disagreeing has destroyed us. How much we scream, only thing which can lead us forward is to understand that not everone can be transformed into Mufti/mullah. Muslims can only contribute and participate in the growth of this very welcoming country by education and UK is rich enough to offer us the same. As compared to UK, in US Pakistanis are living a much respected life just because of education. This is also the result of selective and unselective migration. How pity that our doctors, engineers back in Pakistan who geniounly wants to work or study here are denied to enter just because of what we are right now.

Very well said, I hadn't read your post until now, but one of my posts is in total agreement with this.
 
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Here's the story of a 7/7 survivor with a bit of history working against radicalization in the UK, and her take on rising Islamophobia.

Sajda Mughal - Face Your Fears with Louisa Peacock by Face Your Fears podcast on SoundCloud - Hear the world’s sounds
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Okay, so I don't usually make threads, at least not threads with another particular value to the forum. But I've witnessed a shockingly widespread spike in the hatred for Muslims I see here in the UK. Especially on social media, people with names, reputations, friends and jobs are vocally and clearly showing their hate against us.

This has never bothered me before, I knew it was around, every British Muslim knows this fact. But lately, it's becoming so shockingly open, it has worried me greatly. Almost all the focus of the far-right parties and groups seems to be on Islam and Muslims.

Muslims, unfortunately, are only to willing to fuel the fire with their actions, but nothing can justify the kind of opinions people display.

It seems now that spewing ll sorts of heinous and ridiculous hate against Islam is a justifiable, socially accepted political position.

I want your input, discuss and raise awareness. Discuss ways to tackle this, prevention and treatment. Long term ideas that can both free Islam in the UK of it's own problems and hatred from others. The status quo is alarming.

@Jaanbaz @Oscar @Akheilos @Aether @Gunsnroses @AsianUnion @cleverrider @Windjammer @Green Arrow @Norwegian @Horus @WebMaster

I wanted to have a lengthy discussion on seniors cafe, but I made it here instead so that regular members can contribute, I've mentioned expats and people who've been abroad since they can contribute most.
Uncle I have always been vocal against the media.....it really manipulates thinking..I know I have been laughed at several times about this and even called to have some form of hatred against western media...But in all honesty what I have highlighted started way back by the western media...it spiked due to 9/11 and then again a little more due to 7/7 ...

In fact I was called ignoring how the Muslims are drawing attention with their behaviour...Dude you promote hate speech and when one tries to get overly protective and misbehaves...who do you point a finger to?

Yes, some Muslims are misbehaving but how can a civilization which calls itself forward, broad and open minded justify painting everyone with the same paint?

Well, how to raise awareness...in my opinion the best way was to do da'wah---to many it will equate to invitation to Islam...to me it is promotion of good in Islam or simply putting it advertisement of the real Islam (which media fails to show)...again I am gonna be called names and whatnot from mullah to backward...

But how else will you get rid off misinformation when you refuse to talk about the very basic goods of the religion? If the media is "advertising" Islam as bad then why cant it be countered by da'wah? And no I dont expect you to go grabbing people and dragging them to mosques... How? Well get the basics right and keep yourself informed....d when you hear something going wrong just invite yourself to the conversation....Most who are really trying to understand the situation wont mind and will actually listen...but dont ever get hyped up and dont go to areas which are well blurr to yourself...that way you might end up getting cornered...

The thing about the Westerners is the small ignorant Islamophobic minority have their hands in every field and actually heard out! How they draw everything from nationalism to crazy thoughts of being taken over into people's mind every now and then..

The only thing they are afraid of is being labelled coz once labelled they can actually be dragged to court (yea we were given a basic law introduction as foreigners to know our rights and incase acts of racism occurs whom to approach for help and so on...

Anyway...long story short...know your stuff so when Islam is bashed you can always provide a basic insight to what they are saying is plain bashing and not a part of Islam...
 
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Well, how to raise awareness...in my opinion the best way was to do da'wah---to many it will equate to invitation to Islam...to me it is promotion of good in Islam or simply putting it advertisement of the real Islam (which media fails to show)...again I am gonna be called names and whatnot from mullah to backward.

In this time of fitna, even Sahaba RA seeked refugee. If I rephrase a hadees the solution was given to go on the top of the mountains so as to flee with your religion from the afflictions. In other words, what I think is to safeguard your iman by isolation. Most people will disagree with me but the time of dawah is gone except to use it as a protection shield and mechanism of defence stated in your post.
 
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Good you didn't mention me. Not hate here at all.

I hope this isn't considered off topic but.... I expected Chinese to treat us good here, considering Pak China bhai bhai. But whites are so much better. Forget whites, hindus and sikhs live here as if Pakistan and India are one country. But the Chinese dislike Indians here too.

In Canada, we don't believe there is islamophobia just because 1 in a million mistreats us here. In fact, many whites laugh with us about the crazy people.


Remember, just because a few decide to blow themselves doesn't mean every muslim is terrorist. Similarly, just because a few decide to spew hate doesn't mean there exists islamophobia.

Also when I was in UK for a short visit, I didn't feel discriminated. I was in Germany and stayed there for a while and spoke to fellows who also said absolute no discrimination, only one or two incident. Same thing in France. In fact, I was treated VERY good in France.
Well short visits to many countries dont automatically introduce you to the crazy locals you need to live there for longer periods of time to bump into crazy lots :D

In this time of fitna, even Sahaba RA seeked refugee. If I rephrase a hadees the solution was given to go on the top of the mountains so as to flee with your religion from the afflictions. In other words, what I think is to safeguard your iman by isolation. Most people will disagree with me but the time of dawah is gone except to use it as a protection shield and mechanism of defence stated in your post.
Well, 1st step I always do:
Try not to dig up hadith...

The basic thing I do is rely on my own research sure the net can give you a load of crap but if you keep reading - preferably from multiple resources and cross referencing them...Remember Quran said Haq will always standout from batil!

Hadith may be good to teach us alot but alot of them have been fabricated and it cant even be denied anymore....How do you know a hadith is sahih?

1) ask an ulema not your backyard imam of the masjid but one who actually has a degree and knows what he is talking about....preferably knows a bit of Arabic not the Quranic version but the one who knows its grammer and can trace a hadith coz Arabic language can tell you alot about the sentence itself....

2) If it downright contradicts the Quran or another sahih hadith that you know is sahih (no not coz your mom told you or your grandma told you but one which you yourself have researched on) then it def isnt Shahih!

3) do your own research and cross reference everything with multiple sites....

It is not an easy job and not something recommended if your own basic knowledge of Islam is weak then try not to jump into hadith and their science....

I stick to the Quran more often than only do I try a hadith or 2 on the topic and listen to Nouman Ali Khan....or Yassir Qadhi (I think I got the right spelling) ...

For me SOME hadith complements the Quran ...but many take the hadith as the text book and try to compliment the Quran as a reference guide...which is wrong
 
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Please don't take it personally, I have no problem remembering 1,000 useless facts about the world, names I'm bad with. I also wanted to target this at people in the UK.
I've seen the British Pakistani community in Canada, US, France, Germany, Belgium etc...
But nowhere is it as bad as it is in the UK. We're an utter disgrace to all, including ourselves.
In the UK, I have not EVER felt close to being discriminated against, only time I've heard racism out in the open is when walking with a friend of mine, almost a decade ago, a little white kid called my friend 'bloody Indian', that's it.
I've never heard anything since, this country is truly great. But even it's limits are being tested and one can see that judging form the response on social media people have had since the Lee Rigby murder.
Well I dont know about British Pakistani communities in those countries but I can tell you about Pakistani communities in Europe...
Well, it has mostly to do with the type of people that went there followed by the mere ignorance ....

Let me tell you there are the same type in Italy, Denmark, Finland, France and Germany but not in significant numbers and have been outnumbered by North African communities (mostly I hear people moaning about Tunisians, Moroccan Sudanese Nigerians and some Turks)....

The other problem is probably coz some of these Pakistani communities in Europe have been diluted by Pakistanis who came to Europe to study and in order to do that they had to learn the language and hence managed to integrate and actually present an opposing view of Pakistanis as compared to that of a labor class!
 
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US Pakistanis are the best overseas Pakistani group by a long shot although a lot of the beghairati being mentioned on this thread about UK Pakistanis can also be found amongst our community namely the drug usage but I noticed at least my generation became more serious once we got older, most of my Pakistani friends who used to do stupid shit like pop pills and sniff coke are now clean and in college thankfully.
 
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60 Percent live below poverty line so not much taxes to work on actually .

Lmaoo in India and Pakistan the poor may not pay taxes but out west even the poor must pay. Idk about UK but in the US if you are working in some capacity at all then you are paying taxes by default.
 
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But how else will you get rid off misinformation when you refuse to talk about the very basic goods of the religion? If the media is "advertising" Islam as bad then why cant it be countered by da'wah? And no I dont expect you to go grabbing people and dragging them to mosques... How?

It is best to advertise by making yourself a good example by doing what Islam tells us, rather than exhorting others to follow Islam as we see it. Leading by example works best. This is the mistake that most of us make.
 
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Lmaoo in India and Pakistan the poor may not pay taxes but out west even the poor must pay. Idk about UK but in the US if you are working in some capacity at all then you are paying taxes by default.


UK has something called "handouts" which US doesn’t . You actually make money for having kids and doing nothing (claiming unemployment disability etc ) . Going by government stats of poverty as it is the true picture of welfare Bangladeshis are on the top of the list ( 70 percent ) with Pakistanis close second ( 60 percent ) .

Muslims are such a hypocritic people. they want west to treat islam with respect while they give no rights to minorities in pak , Arabia etc. im tired of this shit.

Were you banned recently dear ? I see you are new but trolling capability is pretty strong .
 
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Lmaoo in India and Pakistan the poor may not pay taxes but out west even the poor must pay. Idk about UK but in the US if you are working in some capacity at all then you are paying taxes by default.
In uk if you earn less than 10 000 pounds you pay no income tax but you will pay national insurance contributions.
 
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