Rising Islamophobia and hatred in the UK

[livingdead]

its racism in just another name....

 

[Windjammer]

Since the so called Jihadis are making headlines these days, i have had some healthy debates with the locals who tend to agree with my point that, any one who becomes fanatic can't simply take a flight to Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan or whatever and after disembarking doesn't makes way to the local shop to collect his costume and weapons and heads out into the dessert.....there are obviously contacts, cells within the UK, who employ and brainwash these people before sending them to their mission/destination. The authorities in this country, while hunting for the likes of Jihadi John, first need to search and eliminate the Jihadi cells in the country. Also, along with all the negativity being portrayed, one should remember the positive impact of Islam on the British society.

100,000 Islam converts living in UK: White women most keen to embrace Muslim faith | Mail Online

 

[VCheng]

Damn straight, UK-Pakistani community is the most embarrassing community of our expats anywhere in the world.

And that goes for British Muslims too, especially Bengali people as well as Pakistanis.

Every place has good and bad people. It depends on how the LEOs deal with them, and whether the provision of justice falls prey to political correctness. For example, there is a certain family here who owns a "mart" on Mt. Hope here, that has been the center for illegal dealings in food stamps and alcohol, and ran a sham marriage fraud for months here. They were rounded up and handed out stiff sentences.

Nobody even cared whether they came from Pakistan or not. Break the law, go to jail, pay fines. Problem solved.

Much of the issue comes from the British police and justice system trying to be politically correct. Just deal with the criminals as specified by law and the problems will take care of themselves.

 

[APS]

No country in the world is going to be safe for Pakistanis,as long as they have this attitude that the world owes them something.

My brother had pakistani friends while studying in the UK. Racist whites used to call him a **** too

 

[Gunsnroses]

Thanks Jungi for tagging me. This issue tears me apart but my take is very clear and simple. My intention is not to offend anyone but just to share my opinion. My observations about Pakistani community doest not really matter so take lightly. As many of you, I have also lived in other countries before settling in UK. What I found is that UK has no issue accepting us, giving us freedom to speak, freedom to practice religion, free to get education, similar rights as natives and the list goes on. There is NO muslim country which equates UK for what UK has given to us. You cannot have and will never have any rights in our beloved and to an extent a secular country, UAE, to raise your voice even in sharia court. Point is how we have taken this freedom as? Lets quickly go back to the early years of migration.

Most of us came here in early 60s, 70s as labour class, we all know that. This class was not groomed or educated and in turn the next generation (mostly) followed the same path with the only difference that they knew spoken English well with British or 'some' accent. They were still not into educational, cultural or recreational activities and had not contributed anything fruitful to this country apart from working in factories, as taxi drivers etc. In our society, least education itself leads you to become stereotypical with an added factor of the urge of knowing religion to the point you don't even have slightest idea how to implement that extra religious knowledge in your life. This urge divided Pakistani community into barelvis and deobandis just like in Pakistan. Both sects engulfed that generation suffering from identity crisis. Here started the marathon of hatred towards other sects and other religions and Pakistanis gradually moved towards walling themselves off from few existed educated Pakistanis as well as natives. Deobandis took shelter under Saudi wahabism while barelvis under pir mureed. Third and fourth generations adopted either narcotic banditism/other criminal acts or religious fanaticism from peers. Another majority were simply indifferent and went into the habit of lets-look-like-Arabs and sheesha culture. A last herd took advantage of what this country had given them and went to the universities to have a respected identity. Elder generation found their ways to get welfare/benefit money from government. Manipulative mentality prevailed. What followed was nil contribution to the society and government, secterian and religious intolerance, unhealthy and unfruitful group of people, how to implement sharia and khilafa in UK debates and their solutions, rise in criminal and terrorist activities etc. The country which has given you all the rights will surely choose to defend herself from aliens who want to hijack the rights of natives and other population. For that, politically, they mixed up the good and the bad in the name of nation awareness on terrorism to actually build a global psychological mindset of common man about Islam. Later EDL emerged as unofficial right wing. And they had every right to defend...

In the light of above-mentioned facts the only solution is to keep our next generation away from religion!!! Yes, stop them getting anything from madrassah and crush the so called good which is causing evil. I always ask my religious buddies: what is the need of getting religious education which you will never implement in your daily life? Today, you are branding muslims as mushriks, kafirs after reading some out of context ayats and ahadees. What about our ancestors/forefathers who just laid a simple life, praying/not praying, fasting/not fasting and now lying in graves; were they not muslims if we follow your analogy? And not least what good has reached to a commoner from these religious patriarchs, leave gora aside? Answer: nil/sannata or bla bla! Back to our forefathers, they were simple, didn't know much about religion, didn't go to state of the art Islamic centers of today, yet there were less problems between them. This certainly means the formula of religion we follow in our homes is sufficient enough for us to lay a normal life which in addition gives our children time to get educated in colleges and unis. No wonder excessive questioning and disagreeing has destroyed us. How much we scream, only thing which can lead us forward is to understand that not everone can be transformed into Mufti/mullah. Muslims can only contribute and participate in the growth of this very welcoming country by education and UK is rich enough to offer us the same. As compared to UK, in US Pakistanis are living a much respected life just because of education. This is also the result of selective and unselective migration. How pity that our doctors, engineers back in Pakistan who geniounly want to work or study here are denied to enter just because of what we are right now.

 

[Jungibaaz]

Britishers witnessed a shockingly widespread spike in the radicalization of young Muslims. They gave them work permits, citizenship, a better life than the countries they or their parents came from. What do they get in return? Their soldiers who come back from active duty being abused on the roads of Britain, bomb blasts in London and people glorifying terrorist acts. A soldier gets hacked in broad day light on the street. A British born n bred guy beheading an American journalist in ME.

This never bothered the average Englishmen before, They knew it was around. But lately, it's becoming so shockingly open, it worries them greatly. Almost all the focus of these radicalized Muslims and their groups seems to be on exploiting the system and abusing them.

Politicians, unfortunately, are only willing to add fuel to the fire with their appeasement (like being scared to be labeled as racists if they point out the cases of child grooming or letting hate mongers abuse the justice system), socially accepting the pure hatred for their own way of life.

Unfortunately the silent majority of peaceful Muslims has been silent for far too long, and their silence has led the more aggressive, vociferous and radicalized minority take over. So when people who are genuinely concerned about where their country is heading, raise their voice over an obvious reality you can't brush aside their apprehensions by raising the bogey of "Islamophobia". You need to introspect genuinely, and ask yourself how and why you let this minority dictate terms on your behalf.

There's a limit to how much you can stretch a band before it snaps and hit you in the face real hard.

No doubt British Muslims brought this upon themselves, but this thread I made in mind for the solutions, So while we agree and discuss the underlying cause(s), some way forward from those needs also to be discussed.

In this period of time where I've witnessed an increase in the worst and most hateful kind of Islamophobia and bullying. The killing of drummer Lee Rigby (may he rest in peace) spurred on this new wave of hate, inherently a case like his would catch a lot of media attention and it did, something like this was unheard of before. But instead, the various condemnations made by the Muslim community fell on deaf ears.

Now I can blame the Muslim community for not dealing with these problems earlier themselves, but in a way not all of it can be dealt with by the community themselves, and by no means should the rest of us be grouped with the crazies. In fact, the rise of the far-right and their ideas only makes resentment grow within the Muslim community, fear. It also validates the cause of the extremists to some people.

I fear the day where people are even more so public about their views and say it in person. There are hundreds of reasons other than the plight of British muslims to tackle this kind of hate. One reason being that the hate causes more extremism and division in itself, it adds fuel it. Another reason being that should the day come where what we call now 'hate' and 'discrimination' become a societal norm and are displayed in public, it WILL be the end of long standing British values of tolerance and religious freedom.

I think before we move on a clear line needs to be drawn as to how much blame the Muslim community actually gets, whether this sort of hate actually accomplishes anything ro makes the situation worse, and whether these problems can be dealt with solely by the community (without dealing with external causes such as war).

 

[PlanetWarrior]

In certain countries Muslims were held in extremely high esteem before the 9/11 attack and the onset of George Bush Jr's crusades. The 21st century crusades in turn brought out the most radical elements in Islam who were seemingly supported by the majority moderate Muslims who felt that the rest of the world was at war with Islam. Then the radicals exposed their true hideous character and the Muslim community in turn seemed to have adopted this guilty conscious, electing to remain silent in the hope that they will not be tarnished with the same brush. All of my Muslim buddies internationally were shocked at 9/11. Then came the conspiracy theories in a defensive posture after the commencement of the crusades. "The Jews did it. The Americans bombed their own buildings to go to war with the Muslims etc." This was the starting point for the west to look at Muslims with a shocked stare, questioning whether they are for real. The Palestinian situation exasperated with the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan made the average Muslim (including most if not all moderates) adopt the attitude of them versus us. The west if not most of the non-Muslim world also seems to have accepted the them versus us attitude and the daily plethora of social media and other media insults and offensive statements against Islam seems to support this. It is now for Muslims to realize that their religion is being hijacked by radical elements such as ISIS for their own gain. It has always been under attack from fanatical nutjobs but this was successfully contained until 9/11. Marching in protests against a few hundred Muslims being killed in Palestine whilst staying indoors and shaking your heads saying "these are not Muslims or Islam" whilst ISIS butchers 1000s of Christians, Yazidis and Muslims in Syria and Iraq isn't going to reassure the world that you don't condone this barbarism either.

 

[Cheetah786]

Every place has good and bad people. It depends on how the LEOs deal with them, and whether the provision of justice falls prey to political correctness. For example, there is a certain family here who owns a "mart" on Mt. Hope here, that has been the center for illegal dealings in food stamps and alcohol, and ran a sham marriage fraud for months here. They were rounded up and handed out stiff sentences.

Nobody even cared whether they came from Pakistan or not. Break the law, go to jail, pay fines. Problem solved.

Much of the issue comes from the British police and justice system trying to be politically correct. Just deal with the criminals as specified by law and the problems will take care of themselves.

A guy dealing in food stamps and selling alcohol to minors isn't a threat to national security syed sahib.Terrorist ,well trained and willing to kill is?

 

[VCheng]

A guy dealing in food stamps and selling alcohol to minors isn't a threat to national security syed sahib.Terrorist ,well trained and willing to kill is?

My point was in implementing the law without fear or favor to help nip all evils in the bud.

 

[Cheetah786]

My point was in implementing the law without fear or favor to help nip all evils in the bud.

In order for them to do that they will have to have surveillance on muslin community 24 hours 7 days a week and then mostly people like you and I will scream discrimination.

 

[Pakistani E]

Britain is still the most the safest country for Muslims in the entire world. British people are still the most tolerant people in the world. It is only recently with the actions of these deluded extremists that British people are becoming alarmed at the situation of Muslim radicalisation.

I will write to my local MP asking him make laws to strip all extremist 'british' muslims to be stripped of their citizenship and deported to the hell hole they call khilafa run by the cavemen Al dajjal Baghdadi.

In order for them to do that they will have to have surveillance on muslin community 24 hours 7 days a week and then mostly people like you and I will scream discrimination.

I live in an area with a large muslim population. As a loyal citizen of her majesty's government, I keep a look out for signs of radicalisation among the youth. I also have no hesitation in saying that if I came across someone with extremist views I will gladly let the relevant security institutions know. So I as a british muslim am not bothered about the extant of surveillance being carried out on potential terrorists, on the contrary I will help the police anyway possible.

Extremist 'muslims' are the biggest enemies of other muslims. Due to their stupid and selfish actions, muslims all over the world suffer. It's these brain dead zombies who want a quick route to paradise that need to be put down like the mad dogs they are.

Just my two pence, thought as a British Muslims I would leave a comment on this thread as it concerns me directly.

 

[Cheetah786]

Britain is still the most the safest country for Muslims in the entire world. British people are still the most tolerant people in the world. It is only recently with the actions of these deluded extremists that British people are becoming alarmed at the situation of Muslim radicalisation.

I will write to my local MP asking him make laws to strip all extremist 'british' muslims to be stripped of their citizenship and deported to the hell hole they call khilafa run by the cavemen Al dajjal Baghdadi.



I live in an area with a large muslim population. As a loyal citizen of her majesty's government, I keep a look out for signs of radicalisation among the youth. I also have no hesitation in saying that if I came across someone with extremist views I will gladly let the relevant security institutions know. So I as a British Muslim am not bothered about the extant of surveillance being carried out on potential terrorists, on the contrary I will help the police anyway possible.

Extremist 'muslims' are the biggest enemies of other Muslims. Due to their stupid and selfish actions, Muslims all over the world suffer. It's these brain dead zombies who want a quick route to paradise that need to be put down like the mad dogs they are.

Just my two pence, thought as a British Muslims I would leave a comment on this thread as it concerns me directly.

why is it when i say potato, people turn that into a tomato. potato is a vegetable tomato is a fruit.

 

[Jungibaaz]

@Jungibaaz
Since you live in the UK, can you educate us why is there so much extremism among British Pakistanis, even among those who are born and raised in a Christian majority country?

Okay, so I'll give you my view of why we're so prone to extremism. You have to understand, it's one thing to have a community with very vulnerable people in it who are easy targets to criminal activities, gangs, extremists ideology etc.

As such there are vulnerability factors to be considered. But the way we see it as Muslims, these vulnerability factors as something we as Muslims need to deal with in the very first instance that they arise. This is because it is one thing to be prone/vulnerable to these sort of things, another to adopt in principle and then a whole other level is to act on it.

Now what causes us to bridge the gap? Conflicts, and the response to those conflicts by extremists, and the response of the far-right in turn, and so on, every action cases an equal and opposite reaction (Newton was right after all), and it's a downward spiral. I don#t need to tell you that after 9/11, whether Muslims did anything or not, they were going to be hated and targeted by some people, it was an inevitability. I don't need to tell you that Muslims in their thousands have been deeply angered by the action of their governments in Afghanistan, before the Iraq war Muslims and non Muslim Brits marched side by side in their hundreds of thousands, you know in London we had 1 million people march against the war? It broke a few records if I remember correctly. Then there's the Israel Palestine conflict, the usual meddling in the middle east, Pakistan and so on.

Now me and you, we're contributors to the democratic way of life here in our countries, we march, we make our voice heard in the media, we blog, we tweet, we sign petitions, we vote. We exercise the ultimate power granted to us by law. Others, they skip and go straight to opposing the state itself, the vulnerability plays a key role where someone does make that huge leap from nothing to full blown extremist.

Now, what are these vulnerability factors?

For one, the Muslim community and the British Pakistani community in many areas has completely failed to integrate with others, some areas there's almost like an unofficial segregation in order. Where we moved to back in the 60's and 70's, we set up communities, along with other immigrants, the property value of those places ''fell'' (it didn't fall but it didn't rise as sharply, White British families moved out, we set up our communities along with Hindu/Sikh Indians, sometimes with Afro-Caribbean communities too. In these communities, we lives among ourselves and people like us, we spoke our language most often in the streets, we worked among ourselves, and our children were raised there too. Now you and I know that back when Pakistanis were brought over here, who they were, and what they were here for. They were unskilled and uneducated laborers most of them, many of whom couldn't adjust in Pakistan, let alone being thrown in the middle of England.

Another problem with this was that many Pakistanis still today if you ask them in Pakistan, they will expect people here in England to all live the high life, live the easy life and not have to work for it. The help that the government provides for it's citizens Pakistanis take for granted and don't like to understand who pays for it and how. Free-loading, living on benefits and handouts. Not bothering to work outside of their communities (which means lower pay), not bothering to work at all, having women stay in homes and not work, having their daughters not focus on education, raising them to be housewives, have you any idea how much a mother affects what her child becomes? If she's got a sub-standard 10th grade education in a country like the UK, her children will most likely be left way behind. I've met mothers here who have no idea what their children do, they teach them how to recite the Qur'an, have large families, but when you ask them what their child is doing in school, they won't have a clue, you ask them what their kid is doing out on the streets so late, they won't know. You ask them what they wan't for their daughter, husband and children will be on their lips, and not school/college/university or job.

All this means we have people who can barely speak a word of English, who refuse to work, who raise their children in a very bad way, and those children then go on to do more or less the same, entire generations of socially vulnerable families being raised, all it takes is a few radicals in the mix to spoil and already dead bunch.

One of the problems I've witnessed with many Muslims, whether they're educated or not, successful or not, if they are religious, I'd bet a few things on them right off the bat. They have a terrible superiority complex and the ones that don't show it, most certainly have it in their subconscious. Only a few are free of this. They feel that their religion is supreme, and that all their affairs inside the home or outside should revolve around their religion. All of it should revolve around THEIR own religion, little do they know that this sorta shit doesn't fly well in most secular societies. They are also deeply mistakes in the sense that they view their own UNDERSTANDING of their religion as supreme, 'I know my religion better than you and you'd better believe, the Qur'an says this..., hadith says that..., this a sunnah, and that my brother is haram!'.

Little do they know that they know nothing.

They don't half as much as they think they know about their religion, but their confidence in themselves is vile.

And then to top it all off, they think that because their religion is their way of life, they don't have to abide by social norms and laws of their host country. You have so many people who disobey little rules here and there, only kept from crime because the threat the police and law carries. Now, if you consider what I've just told you above you arrive at another damning fact about British Pakistanis and some Muslims, they hold not loyalty to their host country. You tell me now, will a man who isn't loyal to his country do anything to benefit anyone but himself and his foolish pride?

Then we have the age old, centuries old problem of a broken community of Muslims, different mosques in my same areas can't get along, we have an Afghan mosque where some Indian Muslims go too, and a Pakistani mosque a larger one, in a rude way I heard one Indian Muslim who said that the mosque I go to is a '**** msoque' so he goes to the Afghan one. If Muslims can't sort out petty differences, how do you expect them to set them aside at a national level, make a unified voice heard and make a unified effort to combat extremism. The only thing that has EVER united the Muslim community is solidarity for Gaza, charity to some extent and that is just about it.

What is needed in my opinion is a big effort by educated, successful young people in the UK. I tried this a while ago and got no response from anyone, I tried contacting my local university Islamic society, that worked, they were interested, I had less resources at hand back then and the society was in shambles, no leadership, no structure, just a bunch of badge wearing people, I tried to pressure them into contacting other societies, raise some sort of effort even in their local areas to combat extremism, go to their local mosques, prayer rooms even, do something, let the relevant social media and general media know what you're doing, raise awareness. It amounted to a bit of work by myself and a few friends and allegedly some people up in Nottingham and Birmingham, but nothing worth mentioning.

We need to stop abusing the system here and start using it in a productive and positive way to ruthlessly stamp out extremists from our own ranks, make a clear division for all to see between us and those types and support causes loyal to our nation, change the image of Muslims, or at the very least reverse, stop or even slow down the trend of hate. Huge individual effort is the first step and then organization and unity where it is needed must be employed effectively. And we CANNOT have local mosques leaders starting this, they are not right for this effort, well adjusted, educated, well integrated young professional Muslims and students need to lead the effort and it is a dire need, ideally, we should have started this years ago.

 

[Jungibaaz]

After all of this does one seriously expect the British to be welcoming and hospitable towards Muslims?? Why should they be hospitable towards a group of people who are hell bent on their subjugation??

Please don't mind what I'm about to say, but I already discussed the fact that Muslims brought this upon themselves, no-one in this thread denies that, and if anyone here follows my posts on this issue. I bash my own people on a daily basis for this very reason.

But this thread is more orientated towards why we have the cause coming up in the first place, and then solutions to deal with the cause (of extremism) and the response (by the far-right).

Now, the bigger question is why is the Pakistani/Muslim community silent??

Divided, no voice, taboo, lazy, not bothered, good for nothing, disown their own monsters. Take your pick.

But in fairness, some people have raised their voice, it's not enough at the moment:

BBC News - Rotherham Muslims 'condemn' child sexual exploitation

Please watch video in the link provided.

Why haven't the Muslim Scholars/Clerics given any fatwas or edicts condemning such behavior on the part of Britain's Muslim immigrants??

Because, they're too busy discussing what petty differences define them from one another.

Or do they all secretly condone this behavior?? Are non-Muslim, young White girls legitimate prey for such subhumans??

No, you have to understand, all of us here condemn this sort of stuff, full stop, no question.

You're right, perhaps they wouldn't if it were just one Muslim Authoritative figure. But i'm sure if a mass protest similar to the one staged for Gaza were to take place, im sure the message would get across clearly that majority Muslims oppose the vile behavior of their fellow Muslims who are in the minority. However, on the contrary, the Muslim majority has remained silent, as it did in the past when similar vile acts were committed by the supposed minority of bad apples.

Exactly!

I just said this in the above post of mine, the ONLY hing that has ever united the community and the only thing we've ever felt comfortable about speaking is Gaza, it's sickening to see we act with such prejudice against matters so close to home.

 

[angeldude13]

I thought money and living standards will lead to less radicalised population.

But I guess this criteria is not applicable for muslim youth.
I haven't read much about the cases in U.K but I think these things starts at home mostly.
Violent parents or Radical/extremists parents can be the problem.
One cannot deny that muslims have brought this upon them themselves.
Liberal muslims should have done something like a silent protest or a candle march when that muslim guy beheaded the british soldier in broad daylight.Things like this would have send a clear message to the world that there are liberal muslims who oppose these b@stards.