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Republic of China Faces Tough Choices After US Cancels F-16 Upgrade

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The US Air Force’s decision not to fund the Combat Avionics Programmed Extension Suite (CAPES) program that would have upgraded 300 US F-16 fighter jets and 146 Taiwan F-16s comes as a blow to Lockheed Martin and Northrop Grumman.

The decision not to include CAPES in the Pentagon’s fiscal 2015 budget request was a “tough tradeoff,” according to Maj. Gen. James Martin, Air Force deputy assistant secretary for budget. He described the decision as part of a pattern of prioritizing “buying new capability over upgrading legacy equipment.

“We do have money in the budget to handle some key modification programs for our legacy equipment so we can keep it ready,” Martin said. “But the F-16 CAPES program is one program that we decided not to fund.”

On the likelihood that CAPES could be funded at a later date, Martin noted the service reviews budget decisions frequently, “but I’m not holding that door open.”

Lockheed was selected as the CAPES system integrator, and Northrop’s scalable agile beam radar (SABR) secured the requirement for an active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar.

Taiwan now faces a tough decision — continue funding the CAPES program on its own or call for an open competition among BAE Systems, Boeing and Lockheed for systems integration, and a secondary competition between Northrop’s SABR and the Raytheon advanced combat radar (RACR) for the AESA requirement.

Sources in Taiwan’s Ministry of National Defense (MND) indicate that officials are embarrassed and beginning to panic. Cost sharing with the US Air Force on the CAPES program’s nonrecurring engineering costs and research-and-development funding will be nonexistent.

The US assured Taiwan’s MND that the CAPES program was “guaranteed” to go forward and that there was zero risk,” an MND source said. In many ways, the MND was forced to accept the conditions of the CAPES program, which included sole sourcing, after the US government turned down Taiwan’s request for new F-16 fighters.

Asked whether Taiwan’s needs factored into the decision to defund CAPES, Martin reiterated that the service “made choices that we really didn’t want to have to make.”

A Taiwan defense consultant to the MND said there are four drivers that will push costs up. Costs could rise upward of 30 to 60 percent as a result of the US decision not to fund CAPES, he said, and MND might be forced to cancel the plane’s new mission modular computer, priced at $200 million, if prices for the overall program escalate.

The first driver is quantity. With the 300 US F-16s out of the program, the unit price for components and systems for the 146 Taiwanese aircraft will rise.

Second, the consultant warned Taiwan not to expect the US to pay for additional nonrecurring engineering costs. “US law prohibits the taxpayer from being responsible for paying for increases to the customer under the Foreign Military Sales program,” he said.

Third, life-cycle costs over the next 10 to 15 years will go up because program costs are no longer being shared with the US, “not to mention the fact that Taiwan’s F-16 upgrade is a unique configuration by itself,” the consultant said.

Fourth, Taiwan’s Legislative Yuan issued a strict budget allotment of $3.8 billion for the core upgrade. The legislature warned MND not to come back for more due to economic problems.

“This is not going to be increased,” the consultant said.

Northrop officials at the recent Singapore Airshow said the program price for the SABR radar would not go up because it is a foreign military sale.

Paul Laliberte, Northrop’s country manager in Taiwan, admitted that previous foreign military sales to Taiwan, such as an early warning program, had suffered cost overruns. This was in reference to the Raytheon Surveillance Radar Program for Taiwan; Laliberte said the $750 million program ran in excess of $150 million over budget.

Lockheed’s F-16 communications manager, Mark Johnson, said the company is “confident Taiwan is not paying more for their upgrade as Lockheed Martin provides a total solution to our customer’s needs and is the lowest cost upgrade solution available.”

Johnson said the letter of acceptance for Taiwan would not be increased as a result of any action by the US with respect to CAPES and/or the F-16 service-life extension program. He suggested that Taiwan might be stuck with the Lockheed CAPES solution, as the letter is an agreement between the two governments, which has the approval and endorsement of the US Congress.

Reuters
 
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In many ways, the MND was forced to accept the conditions of the CAPES program, which included sole sourcing, after the US government turned down Taiwan’s request for new F-16 fighters.

Double whammy. :lol:

First they won't let them buy new F-16's, then they won't even let them upgrade their old ones.
 
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China should sell Taiwan its jet fighters, so less america sells weapons so less their military industrial complex makes money to finance its existence
 
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Taiwan will not be at lost about this, it's LH and NG at lost, chances are, if LH/NG did not provide with the upgrade, Taiwan would probably just choose one of the other, either Singapore, Turkish or even Israeli upgrade suite is on the table. It's not like only LH and NG can upgrade their F-16s....
 
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cKK59s6-1024x547.jpg


The US Air Force’s decision not to fund the Combat Avionics Programmed Extension Suite (CAPES) program that would have upgraded 300 US F-16 fighter jets and 146 Taiwan F-16s comes as a blow to Lockheed Martin and Northrop Grumman.

The decision not to include CAPES in the Pentagon’s fiscal 2015 budget request was a “tough tradeoff,” according to Maj. Gen. James Martin, Air Force deputy assistant secretary for budget. He described the decision as part of a pattern of prioritizing “buying new capability over upgrading legacy equipment.

“We do have money in the budget to handle some key modification programs for our legacy equipment so we can keep it ready,” Martin said. “But the F-16 CAPES program is one program that we decided not to fund.”

On the likelihood that CAPES could be funded at a later date, Martin noted the service reviews budget decisions frequently, “but I’m not holding that door open.”

Lockheed was selected as the CAPES system integrator, and Northrop’s scalable agile beam radar (SABR) secured the requirement for an active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar.

Taiwan now faces a tough decision — continue funding the CAPES program on its own or call for an open competition among BAE Systems, Boeing and Lockheed for systems integration, and a secondary competition between Northrop’s SABR and the Raytheon advanced combat radar (RACR) for the AESA requirement.

Sources in Taiwan’s Ministry of National Defense (MND) indicate that officials are embarrassed and beginning to panic. Cost sharing with the US Air Force on the CAPES program’s nonrecurring engineering costs and research-and-development funding will be nonexistent.

The US assured Taiwan’s MND that the CAPES program was “guaranteed” to go forward and that there was zero risk,” an MND source said. In many ways, the MND was forced to accept the conditions of the CAPES program, which included sole sourcing, after the US government turned down Taiwan’s request for new F-16 fighters.

Asked whether Taiwan’s needs factored into the decision to defund CAPES, Martin reiterated that the service “made choices that we really didn’t want to have to make.”

A Taiwan defense consultant to the MND said there are four drivers that will push costs up. Costs could rise upward of 30 to 60 percent as a result of the US decision not to fund CAPES, he said, and MND might be forced to cancel the plane’s new mission modular computer, priced at $200 million, if prices for the overall program escalate.

The first driver is quantity. With the 300 US F-16s out of the program, the unit price for components and systems for the 146 Taiwanese aircraft will rise.

Second, the consultant warned Taiwan not to expect the US to pay for additional nonrecurring engineering costs. “US law prohibits the taxpayer from being responsible for paying for increases to the customer under the Foreign Military Sales program,” he said.

Third, life-cycle costs over the next 10 to 15 years will go up because program costs are no longer being shared with the US, “not to mention the fact that Taiwan’s F-16 upgrade is a unique configuration by itself,” the consultant said.

Fourth, Taiwan’s Legislative Yuan issued a strict budget allotment of $3.8 billion for the core upgrade. The legislature warned MND not to come back for more due to economic problems.

“This is not going to be increased,” the consultant said.

Northrop officials at the recent Singapore Airshow said the program price for the SABR radar would not go up because it is a foreign military sale.

Paul Laliberte, Northrop’s country manager in Taiwan, admitted that previous foreign military sales to Taiwan, such as an early warning program, had suffered cost overruns. This was in reference to the Raytheon Surveillance Radar Program for Taiwan; Laliberte said the $750 million program ran in excess of $150 million over budget.

Lockheed’s F-16 communications manager, Mark Johnson, said the company is “confident Taiwan is not paying more for their upgrade as Lockheed Martin provides a total solution to our customer’s needs and is the lowest cost upgrade solution available.”

Johnson said the letter of acceptance for Taiwan would not be increased as a result of any action by the US with respect to CAPES and/or the F-16 service-life extension program. He suggested that Taiwan might be stuck with the Lockheed CAPES solution, as the letter is an agreement between the two governments, which has the approval and endorsement of the US Congress.

Reuters

Source:
Republic of China Air Force - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

They can easily sell their 114 F-16s to other countries that includes Pakistan as well. Moreover 55 Mirages can be sold to India, very easily and F-5 to Turkey or in South America.

Then they can easily buy 100 Rafael and 100 EF-2000 from EU and upgrade their fleet of 126 AIDC F-CK-1 Ching-kuo.
 
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Source:
Republic of China Air Force - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

They can easily sell their 114 F-16s to other countries that includes Pakistan as well. Moreover 55 Mirages can be sold to India, very easily and F-5 to Turkey or in South America.

Then they can easily buy 100 Rafael and 100 EF-2000 from EU and upgrade their fleet of 126 AIDC F-CK-1 Ching-kuo.

They can't actually,

Any kind of arms sale to Taiwan would most likely objected by China, currently, only US and France have what it takes to sell arms to Taiwan disregarding the Chinese Objection, even US were pressured form China not to sell the latest Block 52+/60 F-16 to Taiwan, chances are they will neither get Rafale (You misspelled Rafale by the way) and Eurotyphoon.

And Taiwanese must obtain US permission to sell their F-16s to anyone.
 
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RoC should look into buying Rafale's... may be a good choice for them...
 
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RoC should look into buying Rafale's... may be a good choice for them...

Dassault needs more customers, no doubt it has crossed their mind already.

They are probably running into the same roadblocks that America is when selling arms to Taiwan.
 
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Dassault needs more customers, no doubt it has crossed their mind already.

They are probably running into the same roadblocks that America is when selling arms to Taiwan.
PRC has better leverage on US than on france imo, but I don't really know much about PRC- French relations may be i am wrong.
 
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PRC has better leverage on US than on france imo, but I don't really know much about PRC- French relations may be i am wrong.

Sino-French relations are not very good. We probably don't have that much leverage on France. Though they do have significant commercial interests in China which have been targeted before during downturns in Sino-French relations.

In the end, we'll have to wait and see what happens. I doubt France cares too much for either side, they will look for the money.
 
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PRC has better leverage on US than on france imo, but I don't really know much about PRC- French relations may be i am wrong.

Do you know what David Cameron's number one goal is? Make UK the number one European trading partner to China. Mr. Cameron can't wait to see French sales to Taiwan.

With the investments China has and is planning on, including tourism in france, do you really think the French would do that?

Especially since they are in favor of removing the arms embargo on China. They are far more interested in being able to sell to China in large numbers than to sell to Taiwan for a few.

The lift of the ban is still on the table, and if France did sell, they would lose on that deal. So right now there are no upsides to sales to Taiwan other than maybe a few dollars.
 
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Do you know what David Cameron's number one goal is? Make UK the number one European trading partner to China. Mr. Cameron can't wait to see French sales to Taiwan.

With the investments China has and is planning on, including tourism in france, do you really think the French would do that?

Especially since they are in favor of removing the arms embargo on China. They are far more interested in being able to sell to China in large numbers than to sell to Taiwan for a few.

The lift of the ban is still on the table, and if France did sell, they would lose on that deal. So right now there are no upsides to sales to Taiwan other than maybe a few dollars.

What you said does not make much sense....

UK being number 1 trading partner with China is not something David Cameron can do as a country leader, as this is the things UK company needs and only they can do, and UK, like any of the EU country do not interfere with the market. If Cameron do as a head of states work toward become Chinese number one trading partner then he must have twisted their own market to favor Chinese trade. Still, would China invest in the UK or UK invest in China is not something Mr. Cameron can do.

UK company invest without asking permission from PM of UK, I assume Chinese businessmen invest in the UK without the need to ask permission to the Chinese government right?

That is the same as saying my goal is to win the lottery, which is something totally not up to me.
 
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What you said does not make much sense....

UK being number 1 trading partner with China is not something David Cameron can do as a country leader, as this is the things UK company needs and only they can do, and UK, like any of the EU country do not interfere with the market. If Cameron do as a head of states work toward become Chinese number one trading partner then he must have twisted their own market to favor Chinese trade. Still, would China invest in the UK or UK invest in China is not something Mr. Cameron can do.

UK company invest without asking permission from PM of UK, I assume Chinese businessmen invest in the UK without the need to ask permission to the Chinese government right?

That is the same as saying my goal is to win the lottery, which is something totally not up to me.

Taking trade away from another country is luck? Not negotiation? attention to detail? Hard work?

You do know Cameron brings a lot of business people to China when he visited to sign deals, in fact he personally visited Ma, to have his company go public in UK.

It's not permission, it's connecting that bridge.

Cameron could let the Business people do their own deals, but then they would lose because France and Germany don't do that. Their leaders are involved in the trade discussion, when a government can do a few guarantees and provide a few things it certainly doesn't hurt.
 
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Taking trade away from another country is luck? Not negotiation? attention to detail? Hard work?

You do know Cameron brings a lot of business people to China when he visited to sign deals, in fact he personally visited Ma, to have his company go public in UK.

It's not permission, it's connecting that bridge.

Cameron could let the Business people do their own deals, but then they would lose because France and Germany don't do that. Their leaders are involved in the trade discussion, when a government can do a few guarantees and provide a few things it certainly doesn't hurt.

The bold part is about manipulating the market. While tariff and custom concession can be discussed in governmental level, that alone does not remain as the sole issue on whether or not the businessmen in both UK and China would invest in each other

As a polly, they are require to balance out the situation at the best they can, but not favor on any one side, otherwise by favoring one side they would need balance out on some other part of the world.

On the other hand, businessman goes where the money goes, you could have a lot of deal sign with one single country and yet they could discover that other country could have earn more. That's why commercial sector are the major ball player of any7 government of the world. They contribute to the current government and in return, they try to sway the policy to their own liking.

Problem is, David Cameron never have any real power to manipulate the market in his liking as his government do not even have the sole majority of the government, his rise to power is struggle through deal made between party. Again, at best he could do is go to China and sign deal and hope the Chinese Businessmen invest in the UK and vice versa, however, if the pie is better elsewhere other than China, it's not the businessmen are going to change, but it's the policy that's going to change.

It is and always is, government were being manipulated by corporation, not the other way around.
 
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RoC should look into buying Rafale's... may be a good choice for them...
There is no point. In fact not upgrading f16 is good for RoC. They can use that money for something else because it doesn't tip the outcome of war with China into their favor . Neither will buying Rafael fighters.
 
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