Removal of Prof shows Pakistan has forgotten Jinnah’s view on Ahmadis: YLH

[newb3e]

Yes. Coincidently

sad! we lost two good humans today!

 

[El Sidd]

sad! we lost two good humans today!

Its Sept 11. Its cursed

 

[newb3e]

Its Sept 11. Its cursed

yeh that baldia factory incident was also 11th sept right?

 

[El Sidd]

yeh that baldia factory incident was also 11th sept right?

Human sacrifice Level shit

 

[RealNapster]

@Zibago , @Hell hound , @Mentee ,

 

[Cookie Monster]

sir please understand the different bw Non Muslim and Qadiyanis...

I do understand the difference...and the answer simply is that they are also non muslims

The very first and the main requirement to be a Muslim is to wholeheartedly believe that there is no God but God(Allah) and Muhammad(SAW) is his Prophet(last Prophet...after whom there will be no Prophet)

Anyone not believing the above will therefore by definition be a non muslim

Denying existence of God = kafir = non muslim
Belief in more than one God = mushrik = non muslim
Not accepting Prophethood of Muhammad(SAW) = like Christians/Jews/etc = non muslim
Believing in false prophets after Muhammad(SAW) = qadiyani/ahmadi = non muslim

The very definition of non muslim is someone who doesn't adhere to the beliefs of Islam.

khair Pakistans economic Messiah proved to be false/fake just like hisLeader Mirza Qadiyani govt kicked him out end of story!

Idk what u r talking about here...maybe I missed something in the news?

All I knew about him is that he is a Princeton educated/highly qualified and renowned economist...and it was outrageous to me how his religion was linked with his job as an economic adviser, which makes no sense.

It's not like we were asking him to advise on matters regarding Islam. It's his knowledge regarding economics that was needed here, which is entirely different. Also given the condition of Pak economy, we desperately need to make changes for the better so these constant IMF bailouts stop and Pak can grow fast like the rest of the nations in the region.

It was simply his knowledge that was sought out on non religious matters and ppl need to see it in that CONTEXT. To all the ppl who are up in arms and outraged by his nomination and citing this thing and that to justify their outrage need to recall the aftermath of Ghazwa-e-Badr.

The prisoners that were taken were released after their ransom was paid...others who were literate were released after they taught 10 people how to read and write. This happened during the time of Prophet Muhammad(SAW)...he let the very ppl(enemies of Islam) that denied/didn't accept his Prophethood(while he was alive), denied/didn't accept God(Allah), and raised arms against him...teach 10 Muslims how to read and write.
@Amir Ijaz @war&peace @newb3e

 

[SoulSpokesman]

@Oscar

Oscar sb

Are they an evolutionary issue and one that has on occasion advised badly for Pakistan at the behest of another country.. YES.

Had this statement come from any one else (barring perhaps @niaz sb or @VCheng sb) I would have dismissed it outright as a sectarian rant. But since YOU are saying this, I am quite intrigued to hear this. Can you tell us some instance on which the Mirzai community as a whole or the Mirzai Church or some individual high ranking Mirzai has ill-advised Pakistan? and that too at the behest of another country? I am presuming this is not classified info.

Regards

 

[Amir Ijaz]

We weren't talking about Gustakh Rasool concept here but if u wish to discuss that in the context of when Muhammad(SAW) was alive then there are plenty of examples where he himself chose to pardon the perpetrators and show them kindness in return. Through this he changed the hearts of many of them and they became Muslims.

Dear thanks I delighted we are doing a healthy talk and in a very impressive way. Hazrat Muhammad(SAW) always kind towards people. above mention exampls are belong to their personal acts that they do even when he was child..
belwo is link about one Gustakh-e-rasool. Hazrat Muhammad(SAW) apeal to kill him beacuse he abuse and change the concept of resalut.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ka'b_ibn_al-Ashraf

If we take ur claim that a person's religion influences his/her every activity then by that reasoning(as I told u earlier) u must also avoid anything and everything thought/made/created by non muslims bcuz they straight up deny Prophethood of Muhammad(SAW). If his advising over economic matters is so unbearable then I assume u also take similar stance over a Chinese team of engineers overseeing the building of a dam for example. Surely their religious views influence their every choice as u just claimed...so bcuz they are non muslims and don't accept the Prophethood of Muhammad(SAW), how can u accept that dam...or the power generated from it? How do u accept/use/purchase anything made by non muslims?

Dear again my stance is not about none Muslim. I opine that there is no religion within the religion.

 

[Pakistani E]

I am nobody to pass judgments and live the conspiracies, on the contrary I just put forwarded the points why the Ahmadis were proclaimed as non-Muslims and this is for obvious reasons, this judgement was passed in the Apex assembly in 1974 by none other than Bhutto govt...


Quote:
The resolution in this regard was placed before the Assembly which was passed almost unanimously. An amendment called the Second Amendment was brought out and on September 7, 1974, Ahmadis were declared non-Muslims. For the first time the parliament passed Judgement on the beliefs of a community and declared it non-Muslim.

So am I right in assuming that, at least you accept your whole objection Atif Mian is his religious conviction and nothing to do with loyalty to Pakistan?

Or if you do have evidence of him being disloyal to Pakistan, I suggest you present it. Otherwise, be courageous enough to accept that the sole reason you have an issue with the appointment of Atif Mian is his religion.

Rest is a buried issue, Atif Mian didn't say he wouldn't serve the nation unless that law above was revoked, nor is he being appointed a ruler or in any position to revoke religious laws.

@Oscar

Oscar sb

Are they an evolutionary issue and one that has on occasion advised badly for Pakistan at the behest of another country.. YES.

Had this statement come from any one else (barring perhaps @niaz sb or @VCheng sb) I would have dismissed it outright as a sectarian rant. But since YOU are saying this, I am quite intrigued to hear this. Can you tell us some instance on which the Mirzai community as a whole or the Mirzai Church or some individual high ranking Mirzai has ill-advised Pakistan? and that too at the behest of another country? I am presuming this is not classified info.

Regards

Why are you surprised? I've met many so called educated Pakistanis who wear the garment of moderation and hold conspiracy theories as gospel and pass them on with conviction. I hold my breath to see what evidence is presented. Although I already know the answer to it.

 

[AZ1]

Keep crying by making threads reality wouldnt change just by making threads.

 

[VCheng]

Can you tell us some instance on which the Mirzai community as a whole or the Mirzai Church or some individual high ranking Mirzai has ill-advised Pakistan?

It would be wise to keep in mind that religion in the context here is secondary as there are many, many individuals in high ranks that have ill-advised and damaged Pakistan everlastingly by virtue of their actions, Muslims included - as a majority, I might add.

 

[SQ8]

@Oscar

Oscar sb

Are they an evolutionary issue and one that has on occasion advised badly for Pakistan at the behest of another country.. YES.

Had this statement come from any one else (barring perhaps @niaz sb or @VCheng sb) I would have dismissed it outright as a sectarian rant. But since YOU are saying this, I am quite intrigued to hear this. Can you tell us some instance on which the Mirzai community as a whole or the Mirzai Church or some individual high ranking Mirzai has ill-advised Pakistan? and that too at the behest of another country? I am presuming this is not classified info.

Regards

Absolutely,
On the subject of causing harm- starting with Chaudhry Zafarullah to Air Marshal Zafar Chaudhry, members of the community have caused harm to Pakistani institutions- sometimes due to personal ego as anyone else would.
But more importantly, their repeated overtures to the

Chaudhry Zafarullah’s goal is stated more to force the direction of the ML to use for activities leading to the return to Qadiyan- simply because the Quaid was unaware of his true motives doesn’t mean they did not show up a few years later and caused dischord amongst the newly formed state.
Most of his policies were at times blatantly in line with what the British wanted to happen. Some were not, take his speech at the UN against Israel.
Was this a personal vendetta or personel choice as opposed to other Qadiyanis?
Perhaps, but then why did the pledge to the British not stop with him?

Today there is heated debate on whether that influence still exists, with stories for and against. As to whether the location of most of the Qadiyan group leadership being in the UK has some weight to it but then so does the MQM.
Are we to assume that just as with the MQM there are those true to their citizenship as Pakistanis whilst others are not?
But is open support for India and Israel something to consider as anti-Pakistan? When the core religious leadership of the movement openly supports and interacts with those states known to be acting against Pakistan- is it a hyperbole to assume that that leadership does not have influence on every one of their followers?

They say images mean a lot, and this image which is from the rabwah site does.
https://www.rabwah.net/ahmadiyya-le...m-modi-israel-along-israeli-pm-netanyahu/amp/

Does this not mean the community has interests outside of Pakistan and its religious leadership can force its adherents throughout Pakistan to act against it?

Finally, does this sort of outside pledge not apply to other communities?
Very much so, after all we have a community that pledges to religious figures in Iran and goes for pilgrimage there in the thousands.. doesn’t that mean they too are liable for outside influences? Basic analogy would agree too.

There are religious institutions being run by people in thawbs abroad, does that not mean their graduates are possibly influenced by outside forces?
Yes

But the reason the Qadiyanis are a greater impact on the state is due to their greater economic impact and state influence due to guided directions to do so. Moreover, their primary funding source and current seat of power is a former empire still playing its self interest in the world which for the most part does not align with the good of Pakistan. Hence the greater worry of influence.

 

[MultaniGuy]

1) Ahmadis are not Muslims

2) Ahmadis should be able to serve Pakistan, but Ahmadis must accept minority status as nonmuslims.

3)Ahmadis do not regard mainstream Muslims to be Muslims according to their Ahmadi religion.

 

[Solomon2]

All he has 26 articles on economy which is nothing for a professor and other feather in his cap is that he is in 25 economists on IMF panels and if you read the books "Confessions of an economic hitman" by John Perkins, you will realise we are dealing with an economic hitman.

Not sure what "an economic hitman" is. One of the papers he co-authored is on credit traps. Here's his IMF description from 2014:

ATIF MIAN, 39, Pakistani and American, Princeton, studies the connections between finance and the macro economy. He is coauthor of the critically acclaimed House of Debt, which builds on powerful new data to describe how debt precipitated the Great Recession and continues to threaten the global economy.​

As for his purported lack of "practical experience": if you look at the record you'll see that IMF service has proved to be a training ground for gov't ministers worldwide. For example, a recent Italian PM, Carlo Cottarelli, served at the IMF.

You can find other examples if you look for them; just don't presume your prejudice until you've researched otherwise.

 

[war&peace]

Not sure what "an economic hitman" is. One of the papers he co-authored is on credit traps. Here's his IMF description from 2014:

ATIF MIAN, 39, Pakistani and American, Princeton, studies the connections between finance and the macro economy. He is coauthor of the critically acclaimed House of Debt, which builds on powerful new data to describe how debt precipitated the Great Recession and continues to threaten the global economy.​

As for his purported lack of "practical experience": if you look at the record you'll see that IMF service has proved to be a training ground for gov't ministers worldwide. For example, a recent Italian PM, Carlo Cottarelli, served at the IMF.

You can find other examples if you look for them; just don't presume your prejudice until you've researched otherwise.

And why are you defending him?