Remembering the Innocent Victims of Iran Air flight 655

[somebozo]

As you see Reagan clearly saying the 747 was flying within the Soviet airspace and they tracked it for 2.5 hours ...and then they shot it down .... and that's why Soviet union deserved to be called : barbarian, savage , their crime against humanity and ....

On Iran 655 airbus case , unlike Korean flight it was flying within Iran air space in its international flight corridor and again unlike Soviet union interceptor which was in the Soviet union air space , USS Vincennes was in Iran territorial waters ...
And instead of hearing inflammatory speech from Reagan about the cruelty of this incident the commander and all crew received medals for their actions .... no apology ....

I am telling you this was a deliberate act of provocation..one has to connect the chain of event..the USS Vincent intruded in the Iranian waters on the pre-text of hot pursuit but they did not even invite the attention of IRGC boats operating in the region...the ship captain Will Rogers was a hot-headed trigger happy person...having failed at attracting attention from IRGC or IR Navy..they reached the wits end of their frustration and decided to shoot down anything..just anything..unidentified out of air..and airline is easily identified by visual confirmation mile away...and it has a distinct engine sound different than a jet fighter..even kids are able to differentiate this so Will Rogers cannot be that incompetent....and another link in the chain is that Iraq by this time was at the losing end of the war a major western ally in war against Iran...and any direct intervention from major powers could have kept the war going.. that could be the calculus behind an extremely provocative act..that it should invite some kind of action against US ships operating in the region particularly inside Iranian waters what would allow the US to enter wholesale war with Iran..

The Regan speech is not telling the complete story of the Korean airline..the Soviet tracked the aircraft down for 2.5 Hours and sent several messages which were unable to be picked up by the Korean Airline as they were locked on to different frequency or something..the aircraft was scrambled for visual identification and he did identify the aircraft as Korean airliner. The confusion came when the Soviet pilot was trying to make contact with the aircraft...which is a usual procedure when escorting an unidentified aircraft...however at the same time..air craft decided to lift its nose up for gaining altitude..which is also a gesture of non-compliance..the Soviet policy at that time called for unquestioned shoot down in such circumstances..as the Soviet feared the used of civilian disguised aircraft being used for spying over soviet union...this was not the only Korean Airliner shot down by the Soviets..earlier there was Flight 902 also shot down by Soviet Airforces but in this case there were only two passenger death and everyone else survived.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_Air_Lines_Flight_902

 

[raptor22]

I am telling you this was a deliberate act of provocation..one has to connect the chain of event..the USS Vincent intruded in the Iranian waters on the pre-text of hot pursuit but they did not even invite the attention of IRGC boats operating in the region...the ship captain Will Rogers was a hot-headed trigger happy person...having failed at attracting attention from IRGC or IR Navy..they reached the wits end of their frustration and decided to shoot down anything..just anything..unidentified out of air..and airline is easily identified by visual confirmation mile away...and it has a distinct engine sound different than a jet fighter..even kids are able to differentiate this so Will Rogers cannot be that incompetent....and another link in the chain is that Iraq by this time was at the losing end of the war a major western ally in war against Iran...and any direct intervention from major powers could have kept the war going.. that could be the calculus behind an extremely provocative act..that it should invite some kind of action against US ships operating in the region particularly inside Iranian waters what would allow the US to enter wholesale war with Iran..

The Regan speech is not telling the complete story of the Korean airline..the Soviet tracked the aircraft down for 2.5 Hours and sent several messages which were unable to be picked up by the Korean Airline as they were locked on to different frequency or something..the aircraft was scrambled for visual identification and he did identify the aircraft as Korean airliner. The confusion came when the Soviet pilot was trying to make contact with the aircraft...which is a usual procedure when escorting an unidentified aircraft...however at the same time..air craft decided to lift its nose up for gaining altitude..which is also a gesture of non-compliance..the Soviet policy at that time called for unquestioned shoot down in such circumstances..as the Soviet feared the used of civilian disguised aircraft being used for spying over soviet union...this was not the only Korean Airliner shot down by the Soviets..earlier there was Flight 902 also shot down by Soviet Airforces but in this case there were only two passenger death and everyone else survived.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_Air_Lines_Flight_902

They'd been already in war with Iran but the point is the reason behind shooting down the flight 655 was forcing Iran to accept 598 resolution to end the war ...as you said by this time Iraq was at the losing .

 

[Mav3rick]

Iran would have been justified in destroying the ship that had downed their civilian airliner. And they should have downed it, or atleast captured the crew to give them exemplary punishments.

 

[somebozo]

Iran would have been justified in destroying the ship that had downed their civilian airliner. And they should have downed it, or atleast captured the crew to give them exemplary punishments.

Given the asymmetric balance of power that is simply not possible..US precisely wanted Iranian attack on one of their vessel and that is why they were being provocative..the Iranians choose to ignore..Iraq and Afghanistan is a good example of what US would have bought on Iran...

They'd been already in war with Iran but the point is the reason behind shooting down the flight 655 was forcing Iran to accept 598 resolution to end the war ...as you said by this time Iraq was at the losing .

Or to bring direct US intervention into the Persian gulf a chance Americans had been seeking forever...and their butt boy Saddam provided it in 1991 by attacking Kuwait..

 

[Irfan Baloch]

Remembering the Innocent Victims of Iran Air flight 655

View attachment 315345 ​

On July 3, 1988, Iran Air Flight 655 (IR655) was shot down by USS Vincennes which led to the loss of life of 290 innocent civilian from six nations including 66 children. There were 38 non-Iranians aboard.


Flight 655, as a commercial flight, operated by Iran Air that flew on a Tehran-Bandar Abbas-Dubai route. While flying in Iranian airspace over Iran’s territorial waters in the Persian Gulf on its usual flight path, it was destroyed by the guided missile cruiser USS Vincennes.

This attack ranks tenth among the deadliest disasters in aviation history, the incident retains the highest death toll of any aviation incident in the Persian Gulf and the highest death toll of any incident involving an Airbus aircraft anywhere in the world.

View attachment 315342 ​

According to the United States Government, the crew mistakenly identified the Iranian Airbus A300 as an attacking F-14 Tomcat fighter. Contributing to the error was the fact that the aircraft did not respond to several inquiries to change course and did not identify itself clearly as civilian. The Iranian government maintains that Vincennes neglectfully shot down the civilian aircraft. The event produced a great deal of dispute and criticism of the United States. Several analysts have blamed U.S. military commanders and the captain of Vincennes for irresponsible and aggressive behavior in a tense and dangerous environment. The airliner was transmitting an identification friend or foe code for a civilian aircraft, but Captain William C. Rogers III in an interview insisted that he believed the code alone did not mean the aircraft was non-hostile. Captain Rogers described the attack as a self-defense measure to save his ship and the lives of the crew.


While issuing notes of regret over the loss of human life, the U.S. government has, thus far, neither admitted any wrongdoing or responsibility in this disaster, nor apologized, but continues to blame Iranian hostile actions for the event. The crew of the Vincennes were all awarded combat-action.

View attachment 315346 ​

Commander William C. Rogers


More than two decades later, the attack continues to pervade Iranian social psychology and fuel the strategic thinking of its military leadership. Many Iranians remember the event with a bitter sense of vulnerability. A foreign government, the United States, which was not in war with them, used brutal and lethal force against Iranian civilians.


For those with a longer memory span, it’s hard to dismiss some of these concerns especially when you recall that the irresponsible behavior of the USS Vincennes commanding officer earned him the Legion of Merits, “a military decoration of the United States armed forces that is awarded for exceptionally meritorious conduct in the performance of outstanding services and achievements.” For many Iranians, this is utterly incomprehensible.

the commander of that Cruiser was called Robocruiser due to his trigger happy attitude.. he intruded into Iranian waters and knowing well that the aircraft in question was a commercial airliner... had it shot down

Iran would have been justified in destroying the ship that had downed their civilian airliner. And they should have downed it, or atleast captured the crew to give them exemplary punishments.

Iran had no capacity to destroy that cruiser which was a stat of art and would have given Americans an excuse to sink entire Iranian Navy or wage open war. they were spoiling for a fight.
there are many examples like the criminal commander of that ship or the latest news about Gen Philip Breedlove who was willing to sideline Obama and start a direct confrontation with Russia over Ukraine

 

[Mav3rick]

Given the asymmetric balance of power that is simply not possible..US precisely wanted Iranian attack on one of their vessel and that is why they were being provocative..the Iranians choose to ignore..Iraq and Afghanistan is a good example of what US would have bought on Iran...

Iran had no capacity to destroy that cruiser which was a stat of art and would have given Americans an excuse to sink entire Iranian Navy or wage open war. they were spoiling for a fight.
there are many examples like the criminal commander of that ship or the latest news about Gen Philip Breedlove who was willing to sideline Obama and start a direct confrontation with Russia over Ukraine

Iran was, is, and will never be capable of striking the US. However, Iran could have captured the US vessel which was within Iranian waters and could then have tried the officers in an international court of justice. Besides, Iran is no Afghanistan or Iraq, Iranians love their country and the sheer population of Iran would ensure that the US never sets foot on Iranian soil.........the best they could have done was to carry out exercised in the air or well out of reach of Iran in the open waters.

In any case, the world's sympathy would have been with Iran.

 

[somebozo]

Iran was, is, and will never be capable of striking the US. However, Iran could have captured the US vessel which was within Iranian waters and could then have tried the officers in an international court of justice. Besides, Iran is no Afghanistan or Iraq, Iranians love their country and the sheer population of Iran would ensure that the US never sets foot on Iranian soil.........the best they could have done was to carry out exercised in the air or well out of reach of Iran in the open waters.

In any case, the world's sympathy would have been with Iran.

Iran was at war with Iraq and the world was siding with Iraq because Iran had just been taken over by evil Ayatollahs...Iran suffered massive population losses to Saddam onslaught and there is no way the government and the country was ready for another mass slaughter of their citizen..the government job is to protect the lives on their citizen..not send them to meat grinders of war...

Stupid thinking and stupid point of view...!

 

[Irfan Baloch]

the best they could have done was to carry out exercised in the air or well out of reach of Iran in the open waters.

In any case, the world's sympathy would have been with Iran.

even without any action.. the world didnt show any sympathy
Arabs kept quiet maybe because of their racist and sectarian hatred
and west well it supports America more any day.

in case you have missed. Iran did try some fights with US navy and in the process lost almost half of its fleet. that is beside the point.

fact is.. the American ship knowingly shot down the plane and its commander even got a commendation upon his return.

might is right,

 

[Hack-Hook]

In any case, the world's sympathy would have been with Iran.

nonsense UN even didn't condemn the attack,they only stated regret on what happened and then shamelessly said it was a natural result of Iran - Iraq war. 13 country of the UNSC supported USA on that matter.

 

[Hamza913]

shit happens. fog of war. tensions were high after Operation Praying Mantis

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Praying_Mantis


let's be thankful such an incident hasn't happened since.

Alright then, when Osama Bin Laden killed people in 9/11, that was just the fog of war, he was aiming for the CIA base in the WTC and the Pentagon.

It's really funny, if the same thing happened to you lot (which it did on 9/11), you cry for war with countries that weren't even involved, like Iraq.

Also, Operation Praying Mantis is another example of the US using disproportional force. Shooting a single F-14 would have done the job nicely, no need to damage several ships.

 

[Arminkh]

May all of them rest in piece.

The bright side is, no one would ever be able to do something like this again and get out of Persian Gulf alive.

 

[mohsen]

May all of them rest in piece.

The bright side is, no one would ever be able to do something like this again and get out of Persian Gulf alive.

not only anything like that, nobody would do anything against us and get out of Persian Gulf alive.

And American soldiers know it better than anyone else.

 

[Informant]

Never forget the blood of innocents.

 

[Solomon2]

the commander of that Cruiser was called Robocruiser due to his trigger happy attitude.. he intruded into Iranian waters and knowing well that the aircraft in question was a commercial airliner... had it shot down. Iran had no capacity to destroy that cruiser which was a stat of art and would have given Americans an excuse to sink entire Iranian Navy or wage open war...

The forgotten story of Iran Air Flight 655

By Max Fisher October 16, 2013

...The story of Iran Air 655 begins, like so much of the U.S.-Iran struggle, with the 1979 Islamic revolution. When Iraq invaded Iran the following year, the United States supported Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein against the two countries' mutual Iranian enemy. The war dragged on for eight awful years, claiming perhaps a million lives.

Toward the end of the war, on July 3, 1988, a U.S. Navy ship called the Vincennes was exchanging fire with small Iranian ships in the Persian Gulf. The U.S. Navy kept ships there, and still does, to protect oil trade routes. As the American and Iranian ships skirmished, Iran Air Flight 655 took off from nearby Bandar Abbas International Airport, bound for Dubai. The airport was used by both civilian and military aircraft. The Vincennes mistook the lumbering Airbus A300 civilian airliner for a much smaller and faster F-14 fighter jet, perhaps in the heat of battle or perhaps because the flight allegedly did not identify itself. It fired two surface-to-air missiles, killing all 290 passengers and crew members on board.

The horrible incident brought Tehran closer to ending the war, but its effects have lingered much longer than that. "The shoot-down of Iran Air flight 655 was an accident, but that is not how it was seen in Tehran," former CIA analyst and current Brookings scholar Kenneth Pollack wrote in his 2004 history of U.S.-Iran enmity, "The Persian Puzzle." "The Iranian government assumed that the attack had been purposeful. ... Tehran convinced itself that Washington was trying to signal that the United States had decided to openly enter the war on Iraq's side."

That belief, along with Iraq's increased use of chemical weapons against Iran, led Tehran to accept a United Nations cease-fire two months later. But it also helped cement a view in Iran, still common among hard-liners in the government, that the United States is absolutely committed to the destruction of the Islamic Republic and will stop at almost nothing to accomplish this. It is, as Time's Michael Crowley points out in an important piece, one of several reasons that Iran has a hard time believing it can trust the United States to ever stop short of its complete destruction.

This is not just an issue of historical grievance: It matters in immediate geopolitical terms to the efforts by President Obama and Iranian President Hassan Rouhani to find their way to a nuclear deal and perhaps a first step toward detente. For any deal to work, both countries will have to trust that the other is sincere about its willingness to follow through on its promises. For the United States, that means trusting that Iran is really willing to give up any nuclear weapons ambitions and ramp down the program as promised (Washington has real, legitimate grounds to worry about this; Iran has its own history of misdeeds). For Iran, it means trusting that the United States will actually accept the Islamic Republic and coexist peacefully with it.

The eight-year war with Iraq, which is widely seen in Iran as a war against not just Hussein but his Western backers, and the downing of Iran Air Flight 655 that came near its conclusion, have convinced many in Iran that the United States simply cannot be trusted to let Iran be. Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, Rouhani's boss, often appears to share this deep distrust. Khamenei and other hard-liners could scuttle any deal; a similar drama will likely play out in Washington.

If Iran believes that the United States is so committed to its destruction that it would willingly shoot down a plane full of Iranian civilians, then Tehran has every incentive to assume we're lying in negotiations. It also has strong incentives to try to build a nuclear weapon, or at least get close enough to deter the American invasion that it feared was coming in 1988 and perhaps again in 2002 with President George W. Bush's "axis of evil" speech.

Americans might not know about Flight 655. But Iranians surely do -- they can hardly forget about it.

 

[Hack-Hook]

The forgotten story of Iran Air Flight 655

By Max Fisher October 16, 2013

...The story of Iran Air 655 begins, like so much of the U.S.-Iran struggle, with the 1979 Islamic revolution. When Iraq invaded Iran the following year, the United States supported Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein against the two countries' mutual Iranian enemy. The war dragged on for eight awful years, claiming perhaps a million lives.

Toward the end of the war, on July 3, 1988, a U.S. Navy ship called the Vincennes was exchanging fire with small Iranian ships in the Persian Gulf. The U.S. Navy kept ships there, and still does, to protect oil trade routes. As the American and Iranian ships skirmished, Iran Air Flight 655 took off from nearby Bandar Abbas International Airport, bound for Dubai. The airport was used by both civilian and military aircraft. The Vincennes mistook the lumbering Airbus A300 civilian airliner for a much smaller and faster F-14 fighter jet, perhaps in the heat of battle or perhaps because the flight allegedly did not identify itself. It fired two surface-to-air missiles, killing all 290 passengers and crew members on board.

The horrible incident brought Tehran closer to ending the war, but its effects have lingered much longer than that. "The shoot-down of Iran Air flight 655 was an accident, but that is not how it was seen in Tehran," former CIA analyst and current Brookings scholar Kenneth Pollack wrote in his 2004 history of U.S.-Iran enmity, "The Persian Puzzle." "The Iranian government assumed that the attack had been purposeful. ... Tehran convinced itself that Washington was trying to signal that the United States had decided to openly enter the war on Iraq's side."

That belief, along with Iraq's increased use of chemical weapons against Iran, led Tehran to accept a United Nations cease-fire two months later. But it also helped cement a view in Iran, still common among hard-liners in the government, that the United States is absolutely committed to the destruction of the Islamic Republic and will stop at almost nothing to accomplish this. It is, as Time's Michael Crowley points out in an important piece, one of several reasons that Iran has a hard time believing it can trust the United States to ever stop short of its complete destruction.

This is not just an issue of historical grievance: It matters in immediate geopolitical terms to the efforts by President Obama and Iranian President Hassan Rouhani to find their way to a nuclear deal and perhaps a first step toward detente. For any deal to work, both countries will have to trust that the other is sincere about its willingness to follow through on its promises. For the United States, that means trusting that Iran is really willing to give up any nuclear weapons ambitions and ramp down the program as promised (Washington has real, legitimate grounds to worry about this; Iran has its own history of misdeeds). For Iran, it means trusting that the United States will actually accept the Islamic Republic and coexist peacefully with it.

The eight-year war with Iraq, which is widely seen in Iran as a war against not just Hussein but his Western backers, and the downing of Iran Air Flight 655 that came near its conclusion, have convinced many in Iran that the United States simply cannot be trusted to let Iran be. Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, Rouhani's boss, often appears to share this deep distrust. Khamenei and other hard-liners could scuttle any deal; a similar drama will likely play out in Washington.

If Iran believes that the United States is so committed to its destruction that it would willingly shoot down a plane full of Iranian civilians, then Tehran has every incentive to assume we're lying in negotiations. It also has strong incentives to try to build a nuclear weapon, or at least get close enough to deter the American invasion that it feared was coming in 1988 and perhaps again in 2002 with President George W. Bush's "axis of evil" speech.

Americans might not know about Flight 655. But Iranians surely do -- they can hardly forget about it.

the problem is that first there was no skirmish between Iranian and USA ships and at all there was no reason for Vincences to be there.
2nd problem is that Flight 655 was not aware of any ship there , and it even didn't expect any ship to be there and it never called by any USA ship what Vincences was trying to contact was a non existent Iranian military plane which certainly there was no reason fro flight 655 to answer that .