Rejecting an alleged miracle of Ghous Pak Sheikh Abdul Qadir Jillani leads to being beaten up by charged crowd

[PDF]

'wa zulafam minal layl'

in the verse 114 of Surah Hood also means near the night as in fajar time when the white thread of light starts becoming apparent from the darkness but after sunset .

@PDF

How do You know how many rakats to pray and how to pray? do you stand only ... do you bow only? what to read during praying?

 

[PakAlp]

Quran doesn't make any such distinction, the articles of faith one must believe in , are very explicitly mentioned in the Quran. Rest are just assumptions which lead to incidents of violence which we are discussing in this thread

Quran is very clear on following the Quran, Hadith, Salaf us saliheen. Many authentic hadiths are available aswell, also its the ijima of ulema. So very strong evidence to follow Quran, Hadith, Ijima, the best generation are the first 3, which is the Sahaba Ra, Ahle Bayt Ra, Tabi.

Regarding the violence, its unfortunate and they should be punished.

 

[villageidiot]

Quran is very clear on following the Quran, Hadith, Salaf us saliheen. Many authentic hadiths are available aswell, also its the ijima of ulema. So very strong evidence to follow Quran, Hadith, Ijima, the best generation are the first 3, which is the Sahaba Ra, Ahle Bayt Ra, Tabi.

Regarding the violence, its unfortunate and they should be punished.

Brother, seems you are of the Barelvi school of thought. You'd be in better position to tell.

Can you please tell me why do Barelvis (or other sects in general), think these things matter. Or matter enough to be so emotional about it? What if Ghaus-e-Pak could indeed do those things that are associated with him. Does that make any difference in what our duty in life as Muslims is? What the commandment of Allah and the Message of Nabi SAW is? What right or wrong is?

This is not an indictment of a specific sect. I genuinely don't understand why we are so invested in these things? Hazrat Shaikh Abdul Qadir Jeelani R.A. was indeed a saint. Why can't we simply agree on that and pay our respects and offer Fatiha if we go to his resting place and let that be the end of it? Why do we have to start this ideological war on such things?

@M. Sarmad , sir, if you'd like to add something.

 

[PakAlp]

Brother, seems you are of the Barelvi school of thought. You'd be in better position to tell.

Can you please tell me why do Barelvis (or other sects in general think), these things matter. Or matter enough to be so emotional about it? What if Ghaus-e-Pak could indeed do those things that are associated with him. Does that make any difference in what our duty in life as Muslims is? What the commandment of Allah and the Message of Nabi SAW is? What right or wrong is?

This is not an indictment of a specific sect. I genuinely don't understand why we are so invested in these things? Hazrat Shaikh Abdul Qadir Jeelani R.A. was indeed a saint. Why can't we simply agree on that and pay our respects and offer Fatiha if we go to his resting place and let that be the end of it? Why do we have to start this ideological war on such things?

I dont believe a brelvi sect exists, because before Ahmed Raza Khan Hanafi Qadri was born people issued fatwas against wahabism and deobandism in British India, he only continued their path of opposing the 2 new reformists movements of Ahle Hadith and Deobandis and defended the old traditional Islam, however he did give strict fatwas against the corrupt sufi group practises, but the Islam which was here for 1000 years, the ottoman Islam etc was the correct one and he defended it.

His opponents had no leg to stand on so they used the media power to declare the old Islam as brelvi Islam, even though we have a rich Islamic history and some great mujaddid ulema such

Ahmad Sirhindi - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

He was the first traditional sunni ulema who issued fatwa against the new reformists movement. Ahmad raza khan wasn't even born then.

Fazl-e-Haq Khairabadi - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

And your 100% correct. What matters is do your duty as a Muslim, be a good person and spread peace. End of story. The sufi saints were very peaceful people so if their followers are beating people up then that means they're jahil who only follow in name but not practises. Unfortunately people find anything to fight over, be it religion, gang wars, tribal wars, drugs and these people are doing the same.

Regarding getting offended, the fact is some people on purpose like to attack the blessed Islamic personalities, this is so they can get a reaction and then do propaganda. I have people in families who say Quran and Sunnah 24 7 but then make snide comments calling grandparents as mushriks. Its very offensive if you do indeed love them. I just stay away from them rather than fight.

The same way how people in the west attack Holy Prophet peace be upon him personality, they do it on purpose to get a reaction.

These people attacking someone for not accepting the karamats are idiots, they need to be punished, unless he was asking for trouble, I don't really know what happened, normally I seen so many people coming to Sunni/brelvi mosques and challenging the molvis and calling people of shirk but no one used violence.

We had suicide bombing taking place in Data darbar but no sunni/brelvi used violence or took revenge.

 

[Mentee]

How do You know how many rakats to pray and how to pray? do you stand only ... do you bow only? what to read during praying?

Can you p.m me?

Quran is very clear on following the Quran, Hadith, Salaf us saliheen

please cite us a verse which enjoins all of the abovementioned

 

[Dr-who]

Abhey Lota to Hindua ki invention hai Hindu Gods use to ride Lota to Mars kabhi history par le.

I dont believe a brelvi sect exists, because before Ahmed Raza Khan Hanafi Qadri was born people issued fatwas against wahabism and deobandism in British India, he only continued their path of opposing the 2 new reformists movements of Ahle Hadith and Deobandis and defended the old traditional Islam, however he did give strict fatwas against the corrupt sufi group practises, but the Islam which was here for 1000 years, the ottoman Islam etc was the correct one and he defended it.

His opponents had no leg to stand on so they used the media power to declare the old Islam as brelvi Islam, even though we have a rich Islamic history and some great mujaddid ulema such

Ahmad Sirhindi - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

He was the first traditional sunni ulema who issued fatwa against the new reformists movement. Ahmad raza khan wasn't even born then.

Fazl-e-Haq Khairabadi - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

And your 100% correct. What matters is do your duty as a Muslim, be a good person and spread peace. End of story. The sufi saints were very peaceful people so if their followers are beating people up then that means they're jahil who only follow in name but not practises. Unfortunately people find anything to fight over, be it religion, gang wars, tribal wars, drugs and these people are doing the same.

Regarding getting offended, the fact is some people on purpose like to attack the blessed Islamic personalities, this is so they can get a reaction and then do propaganda. I have people in families who say Quran and Sunnah 24 7 but then make snide comments calling grandparents as mushriks. Its very offensive if you do indeed love them. I just stay away from them rather than fight.

The same way how people in the west attack Holy Prophet peace be upon him personality, they do it on purpose to get a reaction.

These people attacking someone for not accepting the karamats are idiots, they need to be punished, unless he was asking for trouble, I don't really know what happened, normally I seen so many people coming to Sunni/brelvi mosques and challenging the molvis and calling people of shirk but no one used violence.

We had suicide bombing taking place in Data darbar but no sunni/brelvi used violence or took revenge.

Yes Sufi saints were good people, but have unjustly been declared Demi gods. Even the famous Ottoman Empire was expanded by Sufi saints.
The issue here are the Barelvi fanatics who consider all other sects to be non Muslim, intolerence, try to shove their way of practice on others, and most of all commit shirk by bowing down and asking other passed away saints

 

[waz]

Brother there's no such "political muslim" specific guarantee coz if we go by the hadees , The messenger was also reported to have said something to the effect that, you shall be following the jews and christians to the lizard hole.


But I agree with your stance on takfir and fatwa wars.

Yes but there is sharh of Hadith and this one in particular has great commentary. It’s not a social change but something on Iman….
The other Hadith is true. Look at the Saudis prancing about in demon costumes during Halloween. Now add that to how many things Muslims follow which have commonality with our people of the Book.

 

[Mav3rick]

The Sufi system in the country is actually leading people away from religion I believe. I mean, people flocking mazars neither pray nor fast and stay away from tenets of Islam. And the amount of money they pour at the graves of Sufi Saints is mind boggling. I think it is also the failure of our religious scholars and the Government; the gaddi nasheen/shah/peer/fakeer etc., people deliberately keep these people in the dark, exploiting the simplicity of the weak (mentally & religiously) for financial and political gains.

What a disservice to people who are born in Muslim families.

 

[waz]

Yes Sufi saints were good people, but have unjustly been declared Demi gods. Even the famous Ottoman Empire was expanded by Sufi saints.
The issue here are the Barelvi fanatics who consider all other sects to be non Muslim, intolerence, try to shove their way of practice on others, and most of all commit shirk by bowing down and asking other passed away saints

I’ve met many salafies who say everyone is a kaffir in fact most terrorist orgs are from their roots. Shia Muslims also have such issues. Deonandis also have their terror orgs.
No one is fitnah free.
That being said most Muslims regardless of their affiliation are fine.
We have more important things to deal with than fighting firaqh wars. I’ve seen these at their worst and it turns even once sensible people totally stupid and bigoted.

The Sufi system in the country is actually leading people away from religion I believe. I mean, people flocking mazars neither pray nor fast and stay away from tenets of Islam. And the amount of money they pour at the graves of Sufi Saints is mind boggling. I think it is also the failure of our religious scholars and the Government; the gaddi nasheen/shah/peer/fakeer etc., people deliberately keep these people in the dark, exploiting the simplicity of the weak (mentally & religiously) for financial and political gains.

What a disservice to people who are born in Muslim families.

Lots of truth here. Many people are exploited as a result.
The Haq starts with the basics first.

 

[PakAlp]

The Sufi system in the country is actually leading people away from religion I believe. I mean, people flocking mazars neither pray nor fast and stay away from tenets of Islam. And the amount of money they pour at the graves of Sufi Saints is mind boggling. I think it is also the failure of our religious scholars and the Government; the gaddi nasheen/shah/peer/fakeer etc., people deliberately keep these people in the dark, exploiting the simplicity of the weak (mentally & religiously) for financial and political gains.

What a disservice to people who are born in Muslim families.

Definitely a big failure but its due to lack of education aswel, people should be educated regarding the adab of visiting graves of saints but instead jahil people go there and cause fitna. Another issue is big darbars like Data Darbar, Kharri Shareef or Ajmer Shareef is not under the control of Ulema because the people buried there had no linege left so its under the control of government and we know they dont mind sharabis going there as long as they get the votes.

Any Darbar under the control of religious god fearing people has strict sharia implemented, the one under the control of un educated people are the problem but what can you do, if you use violence to change them then people call you extremist, the ulema use education to change them but they don't want to loose their million rupees business.

The people who follow Ahmad Raza Khan are very strict, you will be surprised, they believe its haram for women to go darbars, qawalli is haram but its not Ahmad Raza Khan fault, he cannot reform the majority people who had 10% literacy rate thanks to the British, also the hundreds of Mashaykhs with followers didn't listen to him and still don't. Just because they have the same aqida and fiqh doesn't mean they from the same movement. Starting your own movement is different than going to the majority people and changing them and Ahmed Raza Khan didn't start his own movement like Ahle Hadith or Deobandis.

 

[I.R.A]

How do You know how many rakats to pray and how to pray? do you stand only ... do you bow only? what to read during praying?

Nothing has divided Muslims more than "how to pray". This ritual was supposed to be symbolic display of submission and unity but it turned out to be source of differences and disunity, primarily because everyone has a hadees to prove their way is correct way.

If you go into details of when and how it became mandatory, the whole story is full of flaws and contradictions. Nobody can say it with 100% surety that their way is the correct way.

Just for an example, all the messengers, prophets and messenger prophets (peace be upon all of them) must have prayed, otherwise there cannot be a congregational prayer led by Muhammad Peace be upon him right before Miraj journey. So what were those messengers and prophets reading in their prayers?

What did Muhammad Peace be upon him used to do in ghar e soor? If he was praying then how did he pray and what did he read at that time?

Zoroastrians have 5 times prayers and they clean themselves like us before that.

Traditions at the best are history telling and nothing more. History is not always true as to what happened and how it happened.

Quran was in form of written compiled book from the start, but the history tells you that it was gathered and compiled later .. a blatant lie, just to support the claim that not everything had to be in writing.

 

[Strigon]

Haha kya chutiya mulk aur ess kay log hain Yaar…

 

[El Sidd]

Ironic isn't it look whose telling me this El Sidd capatino whose clueless half of the time

It's a Shabaan miracle

 

[villageidiot]

St

A huge Lingam nonetheless
Better then a lota or some other crap karamat

@Great Janjua , turns out it's okay to worship a penis if it's big enough.

Indians.. smh

 

[ziaulislam]

Brother, seems you are of the Barelvi school of thought. You'd be in better position to tell.

Can you please tell me why do Barelvis (or other sects in general), think these things matter. Or matter enough to be so emotional about it? What if Ghaus-e-Pak could indeed do those things that are associated with him. Does that make any difference in what our duty in life as Muslims is? What the commandment of Allah and the Message of Nabi SAW is? What right or wrong is?

This is not an indictment of a specific sect. I genuinely don't understand why we are so invested in these things? Hazrat Shaikh Abdul Qadir Jeelani R.A. was indeed a saint. Why can't we simply agree on that and pay our respects and offer Fatiha if we go to his resting place and let that be the end of it? Why do we have to start this ideological war on such things?

@M. Sarmad , sir, if you'd like to add something.

Anyone believe that he did these things is nothing less then shirk..
If you say he did with will of God the. His miracles were better then prophet that is also nazubillah a great sin...bring dead back to life isn't a baba miracle