Reasons why J-20 isn't PAF's requirement

[Peaceful Civilian]

An aircraft is not the only way to counter S-400. There are other ways too: CM's, BM's, SF Ops, ELINT/ECM.

To counter S400,this is need of hour to go for long range fighters and that can fire long range missiles. BM are piece of cake for S400, as it can fire 72 missiles at one ago, 2 each at one target to make sure 100% accuracy.Even For F35 U.S.A is asking from army help to counter S-400 I already posted link of this news .
We need J20 type 5th gen fighter , J31 don’t fill our requirement after S400 mobilisation comes in place near Pak/India border.
Due to S400, Our whole F16, Jf17, mirages fleet will become obsolete in 400km range areas near borders. S400 is game changer, Long range J20 can challenge it.
We left with no other option other than J20, if China willing to sell it .

 

[LKJ86]

We left with no other option other than J20, if China willing to sell it .

While Pakistan really has no options, facing the pressure from India, I am sure China willing to.

 

[Signalian]

To counter S400,this is need of hour to go for long range fighters and that can fire long range missiles. BM are piece of cake for S400, as it can fire 72 missiles at one ago, 2 each at one target to make sure 100% accuracy.Even For F35 U.S.A is asking from army help to counter S-400 I already posted link of this news .
We need J20 type 5th gen fighter , J31 don’t fill our requirement after S400 mobilisation comes in place near Pak/India border.
Due to S400, Our whole F16, Jf17, mirages fleet will become obsolete in 400km range areas near borders. S400 is game changer, Long range J20 can challenge it.
We left with no other option other than J20, if China willing to sell it .

Not BM with TEL capability. Long range fighters give no advantage in this scenario, which is why some non-aircraft options were mentioned.

 

[Falcon26]

To counter the S-400 Pakistan needs to acquire high end anti-radiation missiles and hold regular excercises with China that involves neutralizing the S-400. Despite having allies that deploy some of India’s top weapon systems, Pakistan has routinely failed to avail these opportunities. Israel trained extensively with Greece to device tactics against the S-300 to the point it is now able to comfortably remove it from the equation. Pakistan & Pakistanis have unbelievable level of hubris that makes them think everything is under control. It shows lack of professionalism at best & at worst treasonous culture

Pakistan can also invest in weapon systems like the MALD AGM-160A. The US pairs it with a HARM and a strike off weapon to neutralize Russian S-series. Maybe @Bilal Khan (Quwa) can write an article on what Pakistan can do to negate the s-400 threat.

 

[khanasifm]

We people who have good knowledge of PAF and their requirement know that J-20 is not even required by us even though its export is not cleared.

Why don't you convince everyone why the J-20 doesn't fulfill our requirements? This statement in itself doesn't make any sense at all.

The J-20 is a long range air superiority fighter and the PAF has been looking for such an asset for a long time. I'm not buying the argument that the J-20 isn't required by the PAF. The only thing coming to mind would be the cost issue, but any long range air superiority fighter is expensive to maintain and acquire.

We people ? Know paf requirements?

Not sure who started this thread but I do not remember getting briefed on paf future requirements officially by acm or any other channel to the details where product A vs product B vs product X were shortlisted , rejected or .... ?

so cannot conclude didly squad




But I may be wrong may be I was not invited and there was such h brief arrange for some of the participants

Perhaps industry day attendance for project azm ?

 

[maximuswarrior]

We people ? Know paf requirements?

Not sure who started this thread but I do not remember getting briefed on paf future requirements officially by acm or any other channel to the details where product A vs product B vs product X were shortlisted , rejected or .... ?

so cannot conclude didly squad




But I may be wrong may be I was not invited and there was such h brief arrange for some of the participants

Perhaps industry day attendance for project azm ?

The bold part was a quote from another person. I was replying to someone.

My response starts after the bold part.

PS. This discussion was long ago so I don't even remember who and what.

To counter the S-400 Pakistan needs to acquire high end anti-radiation missiles and hold regular excercises with China that involves neutralizing the S-400. Despite having allies that deploy some of India’s top weapon systems, Pakistan has routinely failed to avail these opportunities. Israel trained extensively with Greece to device tactics against the S-300 to the point it is now able to comfortably remove it from the equation. Pakistan & Pakistanis have unbelievable level of hubris that makes them think everything is under control. It shows lack of professionalism at best & at worst treasonous culture

Pakistan can also invest in weapon systems like the MALD AGM-160A. The US pairs it with a HARM and a strike off weapon to neutralize Russian S-series. Maybe @Bilal Khan (Quwa) can write an article on what Pakistan can do to negate the s-400 threat.

We are a country with a limited budget. I get your point that we could so much more, but it is in our nature to be reactive rather being proactive.

Having said that, Pakistan is doing tremendously well considering its position and lack of resources. Pakistan has the right strategy in mind to take out S-400 when the time arrives. The recent Ghauri test was conducted for a purpose. However, Pakistan could learn a lot about S-400 through China.

 

[Falcon26]

The bold part was a quote from another person. I was replying to someone.

My response starts after the bold part.

PS. This discussion was long ago so I don't even remember who and what.



We are a country with a limited budget. I get your point that we could so much more, but it is in our nature to be reactive rather being proactive.

Having said that, Pakistan is doing tremendously well considering its position and resources. Pakistan has the right strategy in mind to take out S-400 when the time arrives. However, Pakistan could learn a lot of about S-400 through China.

The thing is Pakistan already has a lot of the requirements, it just needs strategy. For example, Pakistan has a wide arrey of SOW, anti-radiation weapons like MAR-1 and decoys should not be difficult to make or procure through China. But creating a dedicated multi-force task force and training against Chinese S-400s is definitely not cost prohibitive. Pakistan is fortune that it’s most trusted ally also deploys India’s major weapon system. But Pakistan not availing these opportunities is a cause for major concern

 

[maximuswarrior]

The thing is Pakistan already has a lot of the requirements, it just needs strategy. For example, Pakistan has a wide arrey of SOW, anti-radiation weapons like MAR-1 and decoys should not be difficult to make or procure through China. But creating a dedicated multi-force task force and training against Chinese S-400s is definitely not cost prohibitive. Pakistan is fortune that it’s most trusted ally also deploys India’s major weapon system. But Pakistan not availing these opportunities is a cause for major concern

I agree with every word. Probably they are already learning a lot. I think it is too sensitive to announce such dealings. Russia won't be happy as a supplier. China would also want to buy Russian weapon systems for the foreseeable future.

The S-400 deal between India and Russia was a matter of time. We knew it was coming. Now that India has bought the system, Pakistan should make every effort to know the ins and outs.

 

[PakLeader]

I agree with every word. Probably they are already learning a lot. I think it is too sensitive to announce such dealings. Russia won't be happy as a supplier. China would also want to buy Russian weapon systems for the foreseeable future.

The S-400 deal between India and Russia was a matter of time. We knew it was coming. Now that India has bought the system, Pakistan should make every effort to know the ins and outs.

Who says Pakistan has not already been working with the Chinese to get to know the ins and outside of th S400? Neither Pakistan nor China can admit that and risk pissing Russia off. Also, it's no surprise to Pakistan that India is getting the S400. Pakistan has always been great at pulling a rabbit out of a hat when it comes to defence. I am very confident planners in the PAF either already have or will shortly have a solution to counter the S400.

 

[alimobin memon]

Its just a beginning for S 400, their will be definite reply.

 

[randomradio]

While Pakistan really has no options, facing the pressure from India, I am sure China willing to.

The risk here is if those one or two squadrons of J-20s are compromised by India either through espionage or regular operational experience, then the entire Chinese fleet is also compromised.

 

[maximuswarrior]

Who says Pakistan has not already been working with the Chinese to get to know the ins and outside of th S400? Neither Pakistan nor China can admit that and risk pissing Russia off. Also, it's no surprise to Pakistan that India is getting the S400. Pakistan has always been great at pulling a rabbit out of a hat when it comes to defence. I am very confident planners in the PAF either already have or will shortly have a solution to counter the S400.

You are basically repeating what I said. The only difference being that probably China is sharing the S-400 flaws in secrecy. Of course we don't know any of with any certainty.

 

[nahtanbob]

The risk here is if those one or two squadrons of J-20s are compromised by India either through espionage or regular operational experience, then the entire Chinese fleet is also compromised.

China is worried about America not India. It is America who can steal J-20 secrets.

 

[randomradio]

China is worried about America not India. It is America who can steal J-20 secrets.

Same thing. Replace India in my statement with any country.

 

[Falcon26]

China is worried about America not India. It is America who can steal J-20 secrets.

The only comparison between India and china is population size. India will take decades to be where China is currently. It’s insulting for China to be put in the same sentence as India