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Raymond Davis Case: Developing Story

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Interesting, it means Army also desires to release RD? If Mr.Shuja Pasha attended meeting then why Qureshi replaced? I know one thing if Army didn't want to release RD then FM couldn't be changed. Second it seems like all mess of government & court trails loaded on Qureshi, if i am right!

Qureshi sacrificed his job for his Bosses?

If you read the article, it suggests that DG ISI Pasha was on the side of Qureshi in opposing bending the rules to release Davis.

What exactly can the Army do, other than a military coup, if Zardari wants to replace anyone in his cabinet?
 
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Sir,

If there is a gun exposed---it doesnot matter---it does not need to be pointed---just the presence and intentional visibility is a death threat-----why---because of the reaction time of the other party---.

The man with the gun holds the fate of the other person in his hands---at his discretion and at his displeasure---.

In pakistan we don't have any resp[ect for police---but here in the U S----the safe distance in front of a cop is approximately 10 feet minimum---when a cop says stop you do that or you may get shot---why---any closer---the balance of power shifts from the cop to the other person---.

Similiarly---once the hand gun became exposed---in any form or way---it becomes a death threatening situation----seems like pakistabnis have not yet grown up to understand the significanc yet---.

It is amazing the police commander Mr Tareen is stating that there was no round in the chamber ( does that mean there was no threat )---I want to ask----do we have idiots throught and through our police dept even at officer level---no---let me call my fortune teller first and ask him---is there any round in the chamber---.
I would argue that for the average civilian, merely seeing a gun 'exposed' is not justification enough to pump seven bullets into two people. The comparison with how law enforcement deals with the issue of a perceived threat does not apply in this case since law enforcement functions on established procedures and is authorized to use force given their 'job description'.

Raymond Davis, no matter what his past was, was not authorized to even be carrying weapons, let alone authorized to use them in the manner of law enforcement when perceiving a threat. So merely arguing 'exposure' should technically not cut it.

Did one of the guys merely take out his gun to adjust it because it was not secure in a holster, and was coming loose or something? Did he, foolishly, take it out to look at and 'show off'?

There is an entire range of possibilities between 'accidental exposure' and 'attempted robbery', and not everyone of those possibilities justifies self-defence.

And where it can get even more complicated, as the police appear to be suggesting, is in Davis shooting down the suspect in the back as he was fleeing. That is rather hard to term as self-defence. Any normal individual would have been expected to contact law enforcement and seek safety once any alleged attackers were chased off, not hunt them down, kill them, make a video on a cell phone, and then attempt to escape from the scene.
 
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I would argue that for the average civilian, merely seeing a gun 'exposed' is not justification enough to pump seven bullets into two people. The comparison with how law enforcement deals with the issue of a perceived threat does not apply in this case since law enforcement functions on established procedures and is authorized to use force given their 'job description'.

Raymond Davis, no matter what his past was, was not authorized to even be carrying weapons, let alone authorized to use them in the manner of law enforcement when perceiving a threat. So merely arguing 'exposure' should technically not cut it.

Did one of the guys merely take out his gun to adjust it because it was not secure in a holster, and was coming loose or something? Did he, foolishly, take it out to look at and 'show off'?

There is an entire range of possibilities between 'accidental exposure' and 'attempted robbery', and not everyone of those possibilities justifies self-defence.

And where it can get even more complicated, as the police appear to be suggesting, is in Davis shooting down the suspect in the back as he was fleeing. That is rather hard to term as self-defence. Any normal individual would have been expected to contact law enforcement and seek safety once any alleged attackers were chased off, not hunt them down, kill them, make a video on a cell phone, and then attempt to escape from the scene.

exactly what i was trying to say.......but you explained it in a more approperiate manner, and if am not wrong then even in case of robbery one is not allowed to kill them?
@Mastan Khan, brother you tell me, on a traffic signal , you see two guys next to you, have a gun in their hand, would you straight away put 7 bullets into them ?
 
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While all eyes in the West are currently trained on the ongoing revolution taking place in Egypt, Russia’s Foreign Intelligence Service (SVR) is warning that the situation on the sub-continent“grave” as it appears open warfare is about to break out between Pakistan and the United States has turned .

Fueling this crisis, that the SVR warns in their report has the potential to ignite a total Global War, was the apprehension by Pakistan of a 36-year-old American named Raymond Allen Davis whom the US claims is one of their diplomats, but Pakistani Intelligence Services (ISI) claim is a spy for the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA).

Davis was captured by Pakistani police after he shot and killed two men in the eastern city of Lahore on January 27th that the US claims were trying to rob him.

Pakistan, however, says that the two men Davis killed were ISI agents sent to follow him after it was discovered he had been making contact with al Qaeda after his cell phone was tracked to the Waziristan tribal area bordering Afghanistan where the Pakistani Taliban and a dozen other militant groups have forged a safe haven and former CIA agent Tim Osman (also known as Osama bin Laden) is believed to be in hiding.

Of the actual gunfight itself we can read as reported by the Time News Service which, in part, says:

“The scene could have been scripted in a Hollywood action thriller: For two hours at the end of last month in Lahore, U.S. diplomat Raymond Davis was closely pursued by two visibly armed men on a motorbike. He noticed them tailing him from a restaurant to an ATM, and through the crowded streets of Pakistan's second [largest] city. They were close by when, in a crowded intersection, Davis produced his own handgun and fired seven shots.
The diplomat was apparently a crack shot, and all seven bullets found their mark, killing his two pursuers. Davis then called for back-up, and a four-wheel-drive vehicle raced onto the scene, striking a Pakistani bystander who was killed by the impact. But the people in the vehicle, whose identities remain unknown, escaped from the scene having failed to retrieve Davis, who was later arrested nearby.”

The combat skills exhibited by Davis, along with documentation taken from him after his arrest, prove, according to this report, his being a member of the feared American Task Force 373 (TF373) black operations unit currently operating in the Afghan War Theater and Pakistani tribal areas comprised of US Military Special Forces Soldiers, CIA spies and freelance mercenaries.

Further information about Davis discovered by the Times of India includes:

“According to records from the Pentagon, Davis is a former Special Forces soldier who left the army in August 2003 after 10 years of service. A Virginia native, he served with infantry divisions prior to joining the 3rd Special Forces Group in Fort Bragg, North Carolina. In 1994, he was part of the U.N. peacekeeping force in Macedonia. His record includes several awards and medals, including for good conduct.

Public records also show Davis runs a company with his wife registered in Las Vegas called Hyperion Protective Services, though it was not immediately clear whether the company has had many contracts with the U.S. government.”

Since Davis’s capture the US has exerted extraordinary pressure upon Pakistan to release him, including the American Ambassador warning President Asif Ali Zardari to release him “or else” and the cancellation of all talks between these two nuclear powered Nations.

Today, according to this SVR report, this most critical of situations became even worse when a Pakistani judge refused to bow to American pressure and ordered a further 14-day detention of Davis, and which sparked an immediate threat from US National Security Advisor Tom Donilon, who told Pakistani envoy Hussain Haqqani that the Obama administration will “kick him out of the US”, close American consulates in Pakistan and cancel President Zardari's upcoming visit to Washington if their CIA spy wasn’t released immediately.

Fearing that the conflict over Davis may lead to open warfare, the Pakistanis were quick to let the Americans know they would not come out any conflict unscathed with their firing yesterday of their new Hatf-VII nuclear cruise missile (also called Babur after the 16th-century Muslim ruler who founded the Mughal Empire) that Major General Athar Abbas said “…can carry strategic and conventional warheads, has stealth capabilities, is a low-flying, terrain-hugging missile with high manoeuvrability, pinpoint accuracy and radar avoidance features.”

The United States Institute for Science and International Security (ISIS) further reported yesterday that Pakistan appears to be building a fourth military nuclear reactor, signaling its determination to produce more plutonium for atomic weapons.

Most ominous in this SVR report, though, is Pakistan’s ISI stating that top-secret CIA documents found in Davis’s possession point to his, and/or TF373, providing to al Qaeda terrorists “nuclear fissile material” and “biological agents” they claim are to be used against the United States itself in order to ignite an all-out war in order to reestablish the West’s hegemony over a Global economy that is warned is just months away from collapse.

Not known to the masses of the American people is that the $20 Trillion they have spent on their longest wars in history has bankrupted their Nation to such an extent that the International Monetary Fund (IMF) called yesterday for replacement of the US Dollar as the World’s reserve currency.

More crucially that the American people are ignoring is the fact that their own government has unleashed against them a 21st Century update to the dreaded US Military “Operation Northwoods” campaign of terror designed to enrage them to accepting war as their main way of life.

Operation Northwoods was a series of false-flag operation proposals that originated within the United States government in 1962. The proposals called for the CIA, or other operatives, to commit acts of terrorism in US cities and elsewhere. These acts of terrorism were to be blamed on Cuba in order to create public support for a war against that nation, which had recently become communist under Fidel Castro. One part of Operation Northwoods was to “develop a Communist Cuban terror campaign in the Miami area, in other Florida cities and even in Washington.”

Operation Northwoods proposals included hijackings and bombings followed by the introduction of phony evidence that would implicate the Cuban government. It stated:

“The desired resultant from the execution of this plan would be to place the United States in the apparent position of suffering defensible grievances from a rash and irresponsible government of Cuba and to develop an international image of a Cuban threat to peace in the Western Hemisphere.”

Several other proposals were included within Operation Northwoods, including real or simulated actions against various US military and civilian targets. The plan was drafted by the Joint Chiefs of Staff, signed by Chairman Lyman Lemnitzer and sent to the Secretary of Defense. Although part of the US government's Cuban Project anti-communist initiative, Operation Northwoods was never officially accepted and the proposals included in the plan were never executed.

James Bamford summarizes Northwoods as follows:

“Operation Northwoods, which had the written approval of the Chairman and every member of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, called for innocent people to be shot on American streets; for boats carrying refugees fleeing Cuba to be sunk on the high seas; for a wave of violent terrorism to be launched in Washington, D.C., Miami, and elsewhere. People would be framed for bombings they did not commit; planes would be hijacked. Using phony evidence, all of it would be blamed on Castro, thus giving Lemnitzer and his cabal the excuse, as well as the public and international backing, they needed to launch their war.”

Though Operation Northwoods had the “approval” of the Chairman and every member of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, it did not have the approval of their boss, President John F. Kennedy (1917-1963), but who barely one year after his outright rejection of this monstrous plan to kill thousands of innocent Americans was gunned down as an example to any future US leader what would happen to them if they dared go against the wishes of the Military-Industrial Complex (MIC).

Today, as the US Department of Homeland Security has just issued a grim warning that the threat of terror strike on America is at a higher level than it has been since September 11, 2001, and the WikiLeaks release of secret US government cables reveals that al Qaeda is on the brink of using a nuclear bomb, a new President stands between his people and the CIA warmongers with the only question being will he protect them like Kennedy did?

The answer to that question, sadly, appears to be “no” as new information recently obtained by US journalists show that not only has Obama failed to discipline those CIA officers who have led the United States to near total collapse, he has promoted them in numbers never before seen in history.
©February 11, 2011 EU and US all rights reserved. Permission to use this report in its entirety is granted under the condition it is linked back to its original source at WhatDoesItMean.Com.



[Ed. Note: Western governments and their intelligence services actively campaign against the information found in these reports so as not to alarm their citizens about the many catastrophic Earth changes and events to come, a stance that the Sisters of Sorcha Faal strongly disagrees with in believing that it is every human beings right to know the truth. Due to our missions conflicts with that of those governments, the responses of their ‘agents’ against us has been a longstanding misinformation/misdirection campaign designed to discredit and which is addressed in the report “Who Is Sorcha Faal?”.]

Read more: CIA spy Raymond Davis was giving nuclear fissile material to terrorists ~ Terminal X CIA spy Raymond Davis was giving nuclear fissile material to terrorists ~ Terminal X
 
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Your making up your point of view does not create facts at all.

The fact is two now identified as established robbers tried to stick up Raymond Davis who by history of having to fire through his windshield found himself locked in heavy traffic with scooter mounted robbers pointing guns at him demanding his money.

The US Embassy has stated for the record that "they" required Mr. Davis to carry a weapon as part of his job description.

It was the two crooks who did not have permission to be carrying pistols.

Davis has a Diplomatic Passport and a valid Pakistani VISA issued in Islamabad good through June 2012.

Davis fired by all world norms in self defense. When your car is pinned in due to heavy traffic, which I used to experinece daily in all major cities of Pakistan where I went on US Embassy official business in the mid 1960s....the only way to defend against robbers pointing pistols at you is to fire through the windshield.

Aim is poor due to angle of deflection of a windshield with safety glass construction, so no so called "cluster" shots hitting anybody would be possible.

Diplomatic Immunity must prevail and Davis will have to leave Pakistan, for good.

Since when in the whole world do folks make heroes out of crooks who had just robbed two innocent Pakistani men before their failed stick up attempt upon Raymond Davis.

The "demonstrations" have been few and puny as thankfully most folks in Pakistan are not in favor of bandits and robbers.

The two Pakistani gentlemen's cell phones (2) were recovered by Police and are proof that the two were crooks attempted two robberies in the same day.

The Pakistan Foreign Office and Foreign Minister, together with the President of Pakistan, have to face the false baloney being ginned up by some who frankly hate Pakistan and want various sectors of same to seceed....and honor Diplomatic Immunity.

If the Pakistani courts want to compile a dossier and pass it through the US Embassy system back to the US Dept. of Justice for further review and investigation, this can be done, apart from in the meanwhile freeing Raymond Davis under Diplomatic Immunity for promp delivery back to the USA.
 
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and to just wish away all the four deaths and the

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Four? Can this report be trusted if it contains such a grave error?

RD allegedly killed TWO, and a third person was killed by another driver in another vehicle. Who is this mystery FOURTH person if the report is correct?
 
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Four? Can this report be trusted if it contains such a grave error?

RD allegedly killed TWO, and a third person was killed by another driver in another vehicle. Who is this mystery FOURTH person if the report is correct?

wife of a dead person she comet suicide sadly
 
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AE --- list your sources

by the way was Davis (assuming thats his name) authorized to be driving in that area? Why was he not being escorted by agreed upon security arrangements?

and why did the rashly driven backup car flee from the scene of an accident in which a pedestrian was killed? Practice what you preach. In your country, that is manslaughter; incidetally, fleeing and evading from an accident is a felony.

youve put the 'guest' and 'host' in a very awkward and testing predicament! I personally would strongly prefer the Davis remains in the country and let the courts decide his fate. The U.S. should set a good example and cooperate
 
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the make mullah omer our president it will be better for us.we cant face any more. its enough sir really en ugh

Imran Bahi i totally understand your sentiments. I can relate to it, i have been having the same discussion with my colleagues at work during tea.

But then something in my mind says "Magar eik lalbaig ko marney key lia, apne jooti kyon gandi karo?" Flit Kharedo aur naak me damn ka do... Far better solution don't you think ;)
 
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Imran Bahi i totally understand your sentiments. I can relate to it, i have been having the same discussion with my colleagues at work during tea.

But then something in my mind says "Magar eik lalbaig ko marney key lia, apne jooti kyon gandi karo?" Flit Kharedo aur naak me damn ka do... Far better solution don't you think ;)


sachi main i was thinking i am liberal moderate no-1 of Pakistan but after this case i feel USA push me to think like a extremist. is there any limit for USA to kill pakistanis. i think we are in war with usa
 
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