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Raymond Davis Case: Developing Story

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all these neech log, these chawdrys, these taklas, these looteras,zameendars these waderas these jahil people, these dehatis who dont understand these criminals and still vote for them, all need to be banished from pakistan!!!!
 
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This is yet another source, supporting Mohammed Mallick's version of events with respect to Qureshi's dismissal by Zardari - refusing to bend the rules under American pressure:

Top Stories - Davis issue: Qureshi's stance costs him ministry

P.S: Am I pissed (given the number of posts on this issue and Zardari's shenanigans with the IB)?

Absolutely. Fuming.

Sir the problem is "spice" this story reads like the Saint Novels, obviously it has all the spice and our press know's just which knobs to turn, when to get our awam's attention. And the people are fixated with this, despite the recent goings on in Pakistan, the PIA protests, the recent crisis in Karachi etc... Raymond Davis is getting is 5 mins of Airtime on the hour, every hour on every god damn news channel in Pakistan.

Now, just like you mentioned. How many are willing to broadcast news that Z & Co along with Mr. Blackwater Malik have been meddling with IB and Internal Security to suit their ends... ?

Exactly, the word fickle comes to mind here.
 
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all these neech log, these chawdrys, these taklas, these looteras,zameendars these waderas these jahil people, these dehatis who dont understand these criminals and still vote for them, all need to be banished from pakistan!!!!

bhai hamary ooper kiyoon ghusa ker rahy ho sher ke log vote nhi dety kya hahahhahahahhaha
 
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btw your host country won, celebrate it not???

There is nothing to celebrate when injustice wins, whether it be Pakistan or the US.

There are plenty of Americans who opposed the Patriot Act provisions for example, and the Iraq war, though obviously not enough to make a difference at critical times.
 
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Sir the problem is "spice" this story reads like the Saint Novels, obviously it has all the spice and our press know's just which knobs to turn, when to get our awam's attention. And the people are fixated with this, despite the recent goings on in Pakistan, the PIA protests, the recent crisis in Karachi etc... Raymond Davis is getting is 5 mins of Airtime on the hour, every hour on every god damn news channel in Pakistan.

Now, just like you mentioned. How many are willing to broadcast news that Z & Co along with Mr. Blackwater Malik have been meddling with IB and Internal Security to suit their ends... ?

Exactly, the word fickle comes to mind here.
It isn't the story itself RR, it is the mindset that this story (and the IB story, and the judiciary story, and the dismissal of the Punjab government story, and the various other 'stories' of government ineptitude and capitulation on matters of national interest and security) that are worrying.

The country is a mess, economically and from a security POV, the opposition just gave the GoP an ultimatum to fix things (regardless of whether they meant it or not) and the GoP's response is to fall to new depths of corruption and ineptitude!

That infamous quote by the PPP minister/leader, soon after forming the government, comes to mind;

"Corruption pay hamara haq hai" - "We have a right to commit corruption since we were elected by the people"

Zardari/PPP are living up to that quote pretty literally.
 
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all these neech log, these chawdrys, these taklas, these looteras,zameendars these waderas these jahil people, these dehatis who dont understand these criminals and still vote for them, all need to be banished from pakistan!!!!

Yaar, many dehatis only vote for these SOB's because they hold all the power in their respective areas, and hold the keys to hopes of jobs, security and a better life.

What do you think the Wadera's, Jagirdar's and Sardars would do to any local dehati that might try to politically challenge them?

Remember what Bugti did to thousands of his own clan? All kicked out of their homes and into exile. He ran private jails in his territory - what do you think happened there?
 
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If you read the article, it suggests that DG ISI Pasha was on the side of Qureshi in opposing bending the rules to release Davis.

What exactly can the Army do, other than a military coup, if Zardari wants to replace anyone in his cabinet?

You can suggest but not clear statement about it. We don't know about 2nd person.

Army ever played his rule in critical situations so we can not close eyes and passed aside saying that what army exactly can do!
 
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US push on detainee ‘counterproductive’: Pakistan


ISLAMABAD: A Pakistani official is warning that US efforts to pressure Islamabad to release an American held for shooting dead two Pakistanis will be ”counterproductive.”

Foreign Secretary Salman Bashir also said Saturday that a meeting about the Afghan war in Washington later this month will likely be rescheduled because of the dispute over the American.

The US insists the American has diplomatic immunity and shot two Pakistani robbers in self-defense.
Pakistan has avoided verifying his diplomatic status and referred the case to the courts.

Bashir acknowledged that the Washington meetings will likely have to be rescheduled because of the Davis case.

The sessions, to be held during the week of Feb. 20, would have included Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton and senior Pakistani and Afghan diplomats.
He noted that the US and Pakistan have a long history, and said it is ”unthinkable” that one incident should strain the relationship. Still, he said, ”Any US pressure on the issue of Raymond Davis will be counterproductive.”

The foreign secretary went on to say that if he ever did something ”immoral and criminal,” he wouldn’t seek immunity.
But when asked to answer directly whether Davis has diplomatic immunity, Bashir refused to do so, saying it would be wrong to comment since the matter was in the courts.

US push on detainee
 
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ISLAMABAD: When powerful men meet to discuss explosive issues, things can change in a big way. And that is precisely what happened after a highly secretive and immensely important meeting at the Presidency a few days back. The subject, not unexpectedly, being the fate of American killer Raymond Davis and that of Pakistan-US relations. Little did anyone know at the time that the huddle would instead end up deciding the fate of Foreign Minister Shah Mehmood Qureshi.

The meeting, convened by the president was attended by Prime Minister Gilani, Babar Awan, Rehman Malik, Shah Mehmood Qureshi and the DG ISI Gen Shuja Pasha. The president was given an exhaustive overview of the entire situation but quite early in the meeting it became evident that two of the men were standing on the wrong side of the prevalent dominant wisdom and desire of somehow finding a way to retrospectively cough up diplomatic immunity for Davis and to just wish away all the four deaths and the lingering crisis. But since one of the ‘erring’ two dared not be arbitrarily fired, poor Qureshi’s fate stood sealed.

Extreme pressure was exerted in the meeting on the former foreign minister to renege from his earlier stance and simply tell the court that the Foreign Office was in consonance with the American interpretation of Davis being a genuine diplomat and enjoying full immunity under Vienna Convention 1961. Facts be damned. According to highly reliable sources, interior ministry’s immense resources were also offered to cause any necessary change of documentation or any exceptional service warranted under these exceptional circumstances.

An adamant Qureshi, who had strongly argued the case that Raymond did not enjoy unlimited diplomatic immunity under law, flatly refused and even said that if need be, he’d rather resign than become an accessory to multiple murder. The meeting ended on a rather unsavoury and unexpected note. It was a surprising outcome for all the others because Qureshi had always been perceived, and even pilloried by the media, as being an American lackey and was not expected to dig in his heels over an issue so vital for the US administration.

But Qureshi’s latest run in with the Americans did not begin or end inside the Presidency. It had actually begun much earlier on January 28, a day after the deadly Raymond Davis incident in Lahore. He was in Karachi when he first received a call from US Ambassador to Pakistan, Cameron Munter and then had a conversation with US Secretary of State, Hillary Clinton. Munter requested him for immediate councillor access to Davis and his immediate handover to US Consulate authorities. Qureshi asked Foreign Secretary Salman Bashir to talk to Munter and while authorising immediate councillor access to Davis made it clear to the foreign secretary that the matter of release would only be decided by the court as the legal process had already been kicked into motion in Punjab. Then came Hillary’s call.

An understandably perturbed Hillary wanted the immediate handover of Davis and insisted that Pakistan was violating the Vienna Convention by the illegal incarceration of a “US diplomat”. Confirming the contents of that conversation to The News, Shah Mehmood said that he had patiently explained to Hillary that while he understood her anxiety she too had to understand the highly emotive and sensitive nature of the incident. And also that since the judicial process had been kick-started in Lahore, the Foreign Office and the US had little option but to submit to the due process of law. Anyway, the two decided to discuss the matter on the sidelines of the then forthcoming Munich Security Conference, and the line went silent.

Since then, Ambassador Munter and other senior embassy officials remained busy with engaging Pakistani authorities and the Foreign Office, blowing hot or cold, depending upon the level of their own frustration and the pressure coming their way from Washington. A few days prior to the Munich Conference, Qureshi received a call from Ambassador Munter who said that he had been directed to convey the message that unless Qureshi signed the diplomatic immunity paper prior to the conference, the scheduled meeting between him and Hillary would stand cancelled. The message was starkly clear a la George Bush: You are either with us or against us. So be it, Qureshi is reported to have told the ambassador and even cancelled his trip altogether. The chief of the army staff went instead to Munich and that is an appointment that even the US secretary of state cannot cancel, Davis or no Davis.

Once Qureshi ignored the latest Hillary communique, the Americans stopped talking to him altogether because it had now become evident that Qureshi was not going to budge on his stance of Davis not being eligible for full diplomatic immunity. Qureshi was no longer a welcome dinner guest and neither could he be allowed to remain in office. The last thing Washington can afford is his having a Pakistani foreign minister with a reawakened conscience.

According to highly reliable sources, the next claimed scalp may be that of the equally intransigent (from American perspective), Foreign Secretary Salman Bashir who is now the only remaining top level hurdle in the apprehended shameless handover of Davis by a compromised political leadership. The foreign secretary is also of the considered firm view that Davis does not qualify for full immunity. And there are legitimate causes for this argument, which were further exposed by glaring inconsistencies in the forever changing US stance on the issue.

Owing to the paucity of space, irrefutable arguments proving Davis’ ineligibility are not being reproduced here and also because a lot has already been written on the legal aspects of the subject, including the highlighted fact that in the initial reaction by US authorities, Raymond Davis was identified as merely an “employee” of the US Consulate in Lahore, but never as a diplomat. He was referred to as an employee and not a consulate general official. “It was a simple clerical error” was the incredulous justification offered by two senior members of the Islamabad embassy in an off-the-record conversation with the scribe. But it gets even better.

A lot is being made by the Americans and their interlocutors of the January 20, 2010 communication of the Islamabad embassy wherein the FO had been asked for the issuance of a non-diplomatic identity card for Davis. It is being argued that this communication clearly identifies Raymond Davis as being administrative and technical staff of Islamabad embassy and therefore automatically eligible for diplomatic immunity. But this is only half the story.

Certain discrepancies in 2010 had already caused the Foreign Office to seek clarifications. In Sept 2009, the US State Department had originally identified him as technical advisor (contractor) going on “official business” while applying for his visa. Later he was attached to US Consulate Lahore as an employee. So when his name popped up again in January 2010, identifying him as being attached with the US Embassy Islamabad, the FO wanted answers to some very pertinent questions. The relevant FO officials repeatedly asked the US embassy to provide the details of Davis’ new responsibilities along with those of his past postings. When weeks had passed with the embassy avoiding a categorical clarification on this count, the FO finally sent a formal Note Verbale to the US embassy on July 8, 2010. It bore ref no: P(1-A)/2009-ID(USA). This note pertained to a total of ten Americans about whom similar details were being sought from the embassy but no response had been forthcoming from the US end. Davis was listed as Note No:252/HR. When FO authorities were asked about the presence of 2009 in the reference number of the note verbale otherwise sent on July 8, 2010, they clarified that it was perfectly in accordance with their internal filing sequence and did not reflect any anomaly.

Unable to cover this critical gap in their argument to secure Davis’ release on the afterthought alibi of diplomatic immunity, the US embassy has adopted the rather incredulous argument of denying outright the existence of this critical correspondence. The FO has been told at the highest level that the US embassy never received this Note Verbale. The two senior functionaries stuck to the denial mantra when asked by The News about the embassy’s refusal to divulge the real assignments and other details of Davis and nine others. They insisted that all the embassy records had been thoroughly checked but there was no evidence of the cited note verbale ever being received. When they were told that the July 8 note was present in FO records and its existence and its having been sent to US embassy was recorded in more than one place and constituted a process that could not be tampered with within hours of an event taking place, the duo took the reference number of the ‘missing note’ to ostensibly try locating it from their records. This raises an interesting question: if they still needed the reference number at this stage, then how did they even check their records earlier?

Can you name a single other incidence where prior to this particular note verbale or since, any note verbale sent by FO to the US embassy has ever gone missing? the two functionaries were asked. Not surprisingly, the duo could not cite a single such incidence.

Interesting coincidence one must say, where the entire US administration makes critical clerical errors which only expose Davis as being a non-diplomat. Another interesting coincidence again, when only one specific official communication out of hundreds of similar exchanges goes missing, and which once again stood to expose Raymond Davis for being anything but a legitimate diplomat on a legitimate diplomatic assignment.
 
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Was Osama Bin Ladin not a diplomat in Taliban country , US did not consider any laws then nor when its drones bomb pakistani cites what immunity are they talking about ?

The guy killed two people and was caught with guns , espionage videos and pictures this could get ugly and US should really appologize and send forward an apology and some aid rather then complicate the matter

We need support not spies

Normally public if they get their hands on ppl like R Davis they beat them up with chappals real good

Or how about when a women was sentenced to life for mere pointing a gun at her kidnappers while this guy murdered civilians -

This guy deserves a life sentence as well

Chakki pese ga na , weight halka ho jaiga
 
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Your making up your point of view does not create facts at all.

The fact is two now identified as established robbers tried to stick up Raymond Davis who by history of having to fire through his windshield found himself locked in heavy traffic with scooter mounted robbers pointing guns at him demanding his money.

any proof that the gun was pointed? because according to forensic report, they was no bullet in the chamber and no shots fired, only a stupid would go on a rampage without a loaded gun

The US Embassy has stated for the record that "they" required Mr. Davis to carry a weapon as part of his job description.

It was the two crooks who did not have permission to be carrying pistols.[/QUOTE]

since when US Embassy started making laws in Pakistan, if US embassy says they required him doesn't permit him to carry a loaded weapon...get your facts straight this is Pakistan not yankies US.

Davis has a Diplomatic Passport and a valid Pakistani VISA issued in Islamabad good through June 2012.]

Doesn't give him full immunity since it isn't a Diplomatic Visa, theres a diff b/w Official Business and Diplomat

Davis fired by all world norms in self defense. When your car is pinned in due to heavy traffic, which I used to experinece daily in all major cities of Pakistan where I went on US Embassy official business in the mid 1960s....the only way to defend against robbers pointing pistols at you is to fire through the windshield.

exposure of a gun doesn't allow him to pump 7 bullets and FIY bullets were shot at the back, gun wasn't pointed at him
Aim is poor due to angle of deflection of a windshield with safety glass construction, so no so called "cluster" shots hitting anybody would be possible.

Diplomatic Immunity must prevail and Davis will have to leave Pakistan, for good.

its upto court to decide, however i do hope that they let him go, guilty or not guilty

The two Pakistani gentlemen's cell phones (2) were recovered by Police and are proof that the two were crooks attempted two robberies in the same day.

you see thats the issue here, they are not coming forward, no sign of these two so called victims, and i think physical evidence is getting heavy in this case

If the Pakistani courts want to compile a dossier and pass it through the US Embassy system back to the US Dept. of Justice for further review and investigation, this can be done, apart from in the meanwhile freeing Raymond Davis under Diplomatic Immunity for promp delivery back to the USA.

You mean the most corrupt system in the world, the system which is trying so hard to get there guy free from Pakistan will punish him for his deeds in his land....a big lol mate
 
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One would think Pakistan was Communist Cuba during the height of the Cold War, given the amount of stink the US is producing on the issue of Raymond Davis.
 
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wife of a dead person she comet suicide sadly

That is no reason to blame RD for 4 deaths. He is accused of shooting TWO, no more , no less. Playing fast and loose with facts only serves to undermine the process, as much of a farce as it is already.

Suicide is HARAAM in Islam by the way. According to some reports, Shumaila may have been pregnant. If four, then why not FIVE deaths? Or should she be blamed for the murder of her own unborn child? You see Sir, 'tis a slippery slope indeed that which you choose to tread.
 
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