Raymond Davis Case: Developing Story

[Awesome]

Obviously the dirty American should be taken from jail and hanged from the nearest telephone pole! He was stupid for thinking that he could drive his car, alone, in Lahore, without the protection of an Abrams tank. He was stupid!! How could he think that an American could be safe anywhere on the streets of Pakistan??? Obviously the hatred of Pakistanis is waaaaaay too much for any American to venture out of his walled compound. For his sheer stupidity he should be shot in his jail cell, by his police guards. Just like Taseer ......

Wow, full on theatrics? C'mon what're you so afraid of a little investigation to reveal?

 

[mjnaushad]

What was he doing in Lahore ??? Eating Phelwan Choley??

 

[rohailmalhi]

U americans are the ones to create hatred in our heart aginst americans coz of ur bloody acts what do u expect more .........when u kill civilians on daily basis and then label then terrorists .

The American should be prosecuted here in Pakistan according to Pakistani laws and if found guilty he should be given the punishment .

What max u americans can do isolate us from the world , u have already done that or u can stop the so called aid so let it be , i think u will do more good than bad by stopping the aid .

May Allah protect my Pakistan and it people from war mongers.

 

[Abii]

Obviously the dirty American should be taken from jail and hanged from the nearest telephone pole! He was stupid for thinking that he could drive his car, alone, in Lahore, without the protection of an Abrams tank. He was stupid!! How could he think that an American could be safe anywhere on the streets of Pakistan??? Obviously the hatred of Pakistanis is waaaaaay too much for any American to venture out of his walled compound. For his sheer stupidity he should be shot in his jail cell, by his police guards. Just like Taseer ......

oh stfu

 

[pkd]

Ansar Abbasi in today's Jang has reported that a face mask and a GPS system has been found in the killers car. So the suspicions are rising that he may be an under cover agent.

 

[RescueRanger]

Ansar Abbasi in today's Jang has reported that a face mask and a GPS system has been found in the killers car. So the suspicions are rising that he may be an under cover agent.

I have a Garmin Navigator with Pakistan Maps installed in my wife's car for convenience.. Does that make her a covert agent too?

As for face mask, that is not really relevant, the embassy could just say that they provide all staff with minimum PPE: Personal Protective Equipment.

The weapons, that is the contentious issue here..

 

[fatman17]

A return to the Stone Ages waits for Pakistan the day the US stops supplying and suporting the war on terrorism in Afghanistan and Pakistan.

Clearly you don't realize that some of the supplies being bought into Pakistan are FOR and remain IN Pakistan for the Pakistan miliary to use.

oh please!!!

 

[Bratva]

A return to the Stone Ages waits for Pakistan the day the US stops supplying and suporting the war on terrorism in Afghanistan and Pakistan.

Clearly you don't realize that some of the supplies being bought into Pakistan are FOR and remain IN Pakistan for the Pakistan miliary to use.

It's easy for you to write all these things while sitting on a nice comfortable chair and a nice comfortable Large LCD in front of you and a soft touch keyboard, on which your fingers are running like hell, living a nice and comfortable retirement life, everyday you wake there is tranquillity around you



But there is a reality out there, Mr American Eagle, An Ugly reality, since Pakistanis are facing these ugly realities every day and these realities have become part of our life, how can you understand what we went through every day? I invite you to Pakistan, Forget that Pakistan of 1960's which is in your mind, come and judge, why there is so much paranoia about americans around here? what makes people go mad about them?

Dont act like arm chair General, who never goes to battle field and only make assessments on the basis of reports received, and make decisions just like you, while sitting on a nice comfortable chair!

 

[somebozo]

Arab news
Islamabad rebuffs call for US gunman’s immediate release

By AZHAR MASOOD | ARAB NEWS

Published: Jan 30, 2011 04:14 Updated: Jan 30, 2011 04:14

ISLAMABAD: Pakistan on Sunday rebuffed a call from the United States for the immediate release of an American man who shot dead two men in a Lahore street, saying its legal process must be respected.

US Ambassador to Pakistan Cameron Munter called on Pakistan's Foreign Secretary Salman Bashir on Friday to discuss the matter. “The US envoy asked for consular access to the American national and it was accepted,” said a senior official here on condition of anonymity.

“However, the US envoy was told the government would discuss the issue with the Punjab government which is directly involved in the incident,” he said, adding that the US ambassador was assured that the law would be followed. An embassy statement said Davis has a US diplomatic passport and valid Pakistani visa until June 2012.

The government, already severely criticized for being submissive to the US, is most likely to come under intense domestic pressure to be tough on the American. “We are already seeing small protests around the country and it is expected that these demonstrations will grow larger in coming days,” he said.

A Pakistani diplomat said one problem for the Pakistani authorities was the question about Davis’ “real” identity. “The way he behaved has led to the conclusion that he couldn’t be an ordinary diplomat,” said the diplomat who preferred anonymity.

He said the present government is already blamed for being too lenient when it comes to issuing visas to Americans intending to travel to Islamabad, and Pakistani security agencies are worried that there might be some dubious people taking advantage of that leniency.

“Now, we again witness a widespread debate of possible links between the infamous US private security firm Blackwater and the arrested American in Lahore, and all these things are creating a lot of trouble for the government,” he said.

However, a Western diplomat said Davis, if proved that he acted in self-defense, stands a good chance of avoiding prosecution under the Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations. He said that according to the Vienna Convention, Pakistan has the right to ask the US to lift a diplomat’s immunity, but history has shown that the convention has helped rescue several envoys found guilty of killing or injuring people across the world.

US Embassy spokeswoman Courtney Beale told The Associated Press that the official was “a member of the administrative and technical staff.”

Separately, a senior US official told AP that the man was authorized by the United States to carry a weapon, but that it was a “grey area” whether he could do so in Pakistan. “This is a test case for our rulers,” Maulana Fazlur Rehman, head of the Jamiat Ulema-e-Islam, was quoted as saying by AP.

“A foreigner, an American cannot be allowed to shed blood this way. The matter is in the court. The facts will be revealed there.”

The senior US official told the news agency that the embassy was concerned about the man’s safety inside jail. He said the killing of the governor of Punjab province earlier this month by a police officer assigned to guard him had alarmed many in Washington.

The official, who spoke on condition of anonymity, said he understood that some Pakistanis were angry about the incident. But that he was concerned officials in the Punjab were “pandering” to those emotions, citing a visit Friday by the province’s chief minister to the home of one of the Pakistanis killed.

© 2010 Arab News

 

[RescueRanger]

In response to the following thread: http://www.defence.pk/forums/curren...s-fired-into-auto-windshield.html#post1448776

I thought it pertinent to post my response in this thread:

Consider the following two pictures:

1. Steering Whell
2. Driver Seat

Consider the grouping of those shots...

Now look at this image:

Just look at the grouping, yet there is no damage to the interior or the upholstery in the car.. Moreover the shots are directly over the driver seat, it is impossible that the driver would have survived..


Now consider the following videos:

(If the assialant's had indeed fired those shots, i find it hard to belive how davis is till alive).

Secondly:

Note how the shards of glass fly inwards when the windscreen is shot from the outside, the are travelling with so much force that they move the camera as they hit it.

If by some miraculous divine intervention he did survive the bullets, why then does he not even have so much as a scratch from the flying glass?

I will once again remind those reading this, look at the grouping in the picture, look at the video's i have posted... Why is there no interior damage, and consider the grouping, how is it possible that someone could have survived that?

The answer is simple, he shot Outward from the windscreen....

 

[RoYaL~GuJJaR]

Are those ppl who got killed were civilians or robbers??

Anyone pls clerify..

 

[Skull and Bones]

Arab news
Islamabad rebuffs call for US gunman’s immediate release

By AZHAR MASOOD | ARAB NEWS

Published: Jan 30, 2011 04:14 Updated: Jan 30, 2011 04:14

ISLAMABAD: Pakistan on Sunday rebuffed a call from the United States for the immediate release of an American man who shot dead two men in a Lahore street, saying its legal process must be respected.

US Ambassador to Pakistan Cameron Munter called on Pakistan's Foreign Secretary Salman Bashir on Friday to discuss the matter. “The US envoy asked for consular access to the American national and it was accepted,” said a senior official here on condition of anonymity.

“However, the US envoy was told the government would discuss the issue with the Punjab government which is directly involved in the incident,” he said, adding that the US ambassador was assured that the law would be followed. An embassy statement said Davis has a US diplomatic passport and valid Pakistani visa until June 2012.

The government, already severely criticized for being submissive to the US, is most likely to come under intense domestic pressure to be tough on the American. “We are already seeing small protests around the country and it is expected that these demonstrations will grow larger in coming days,” he said.

A Pakistani diplomat said one problem for the Pakistani authorities was the question about Davis’ “real” identity. “The way he behaved has led to the conclusion that he couldn’t be an ordinary diplomat,” said the diplomat who preferred anonymity.

He said the present government is already blamed for being too lenient when it comes to issuing visas to Americans intending to travel to Islamabad, and Pakistani security agencies are worried that there might be some dubious people taking advantage of that leniency.

“Now, we again witness a widespread debate of possible links between the infamous US private security firm Blackwater and the arrested American in Lahore, and all these things are creating a lot of trouble for the government,” he said.

However, a Western diplomat said Davis, if proved that he acted in self-defense, stands a good chance of avoiding prosecution under the Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations. He said that according to the Vienna Convention, Pakistan has the right to ask the US to lift a diplomat’s immunity, but history has shown that the convention has helped rescue several envoys found guilty of killing or injuring people across the world.

US Embassy spokeswoman Courtney Beale told The Associated Press that the official was “a member of the administrative and technical staff.”

Separately, a senior US official told AP that the man was authorized by the United States to carry a weapon, but that it was a “grey area” whether he could do so in Pakistan. “This is a test case for our rulers,” Maulana Fazlur Rehman, head of the Jamiat Ulema-e-Islam, was quoted as saying by AP.

“A foreigner, an American cannot be allowed to shed blood this way. The matter is in the court. The facts will be revealed there.”

The senior US official told the news agency that the embassy was concerned about the man’s safety inside jail. He said the killing of the governor of Punjab province earlier this month by a police officer assigned to guard him had alarmed many in Washington.

The official, who spoke on condition of anonymity, said he understood that some Pakistanis were angry about the incident. But that he was concerned officials in the Punjab were “pandering” to those emotions, citing a visit Friday by the province’s chief minister to the home of one of the Pakistanis killed.

© 2010 Arab News

First he shot innocents citizens and then crushed many more in the busy road, and then he's describing the whole scene as an act of self defense?
Someone gotto teach these Americans that they are in foreign soil and they have to follow the law of Pakistan. Time to get though guys because Americans will be desperate to rescue him by exploiting some bureaucratic loop holes.

 

[JonAsad]

Consider the following two pictures:

One thing i must conclude here is, looking at the angle of front windscreen and that of the entering bullets holes, there is no possible way that the bullets can come put of the rear windscreen thus shattering it. It must have hit the drivers seat.

another scenario is, suppose the driver ducked, and escaped the flying sharp peices of glass, he must have then opened the door, must have gotten out of the car, must have drawn his glock and must have fired back. The only problem in this story is what were the robbers doing at that time? Reloading after firing 4 shots?

Plus we can clearly see from the videos? Hello AE?? CCTV footage of the incident that the rear windscreen was intact when he escaped? Hello?? Cant you see that?

 

[Patriot]

Gueorgui Makharadze
In January 1997, Gueorgui Makharadze, the deputy ambassador of the Republic of Georgia in Washington caused an accident that injured four people and killed a sixteen-year-old girl. He was found to have a blood alcohol content of 0.15, but released from custody because he was a diplomat. The U.S. government asked the Georgian government to waive his immunity, which they did and Makharadze was tried and convicted of manslaughter by the U.S. and sentenced to seven to twenty-one years in prison. The first three years of his sentence were served in a North Carolina prison, after which he was repatriated to his home nation of Georgia to serve the remainder of his sentence.

Gueorgui Makharadze - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[pkd]

LAHORE: The US diplomat who claims to have shot two people dead in Lahore on Thursday only to defend himself in a robbery incident stands a good chance of avoiding prosecution under the Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations (April 18, 1961), if one studies the past precedents in this context.

The American diplomat, Raymond Davis, is also being accused of trampling over another man while fleeing from the scene. According to the Vienna Convention of 1961, Pakistan has the right to ask the US to lift the accused diplomat’s immunity, but history reveals that the principles laid down in this conference nearly half a century ago have come to the rescue of at least half a dozen world envoys, who were found guilty of killing or injuring ordinary people in various incidents. These incidents have mostly been traffic-related though.

Although, the history of diplomatic immunity dates back to 1709 when the British Parliament had first granted this privilege to foreign ambassadors, the Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations has saved various culpable envoys from prosecution or lawsuits in countries where they were stationed.

To cite a few examples, a Russian diplomat posted in Ottawa (Canada) had rammed his car into two pedestrians in January 2001, killing one and seriously injuring the other. The Canadian government had requested that Russia to waive the diplomat named Andrei Knyazev’s immunity, but the request was refused. However, Knyazev was subsequently prosecuted in Russia for involuntary manslaughter and sentenced to four years in prison.

An American Consul General, Douglas Kent, was involved in a car accident in a Russian city on October 27, 1998, crippling a man called Alexander Kashin. Diplomat Kent was not prosecuted in the US, as an American Court of Appeals had ruled in August 2006 that since the Consul General was using his own vehicle for consular purposes, he could not be sued civilly.

In yet another episode, a Romanian Charge d’Affaires in Singapore, Silviu Ionescu, was allegedly involved a drunk-driving hit-and-run accident in December 2009, that had resulted in the death of a 30-year-old man.

The Romanian diplomat had left Singapore for Romania three days after the accident. Though Romania did not waive his diplomatic immunity, criminal proceedings against him were conducted back home. He was formally charged with homicide by Romanian courts and remanded for 29 days.

Having sought an international arrest warrant against Ionescu, the Singapore government had argued that by reason of Article 39(2) of the Vienna Convention, envoy Ionescu was no longer protected by diplomatic immunity.

The guilty diplomat Ionescu was subsequently suspended from his post in February 2010. Meanwhile, a pedestrian who was hit in a fatal hit-and-run accident involving Romanian diplomat, had also gone on to sue the official for Singapore dollars 630,000.

On November 26, 2010, Ionescu was released from detention in Romania after being held in preventive custody at a prison in Bucharest for seven months, though he was not allowed to leave the country.

More recently, in January this year, Britain had asked India to waive off the diplomatic immunity for Anil Verma, a senior Indian diplomat accused of assaulting his wife, saying it does not tolerate envoys working in the UK breaking the law.

Verma, a third-ranked diplomat in the Indian High Commission, found himself in trouble when his injured wife Paromita was found screaming by neighbours on December 11 last year. When the police arrived, the 45-year-old Verma had claimed diplomatic immunity and eventually escaped action.

Verma, an Economic Minister in the Indian mission, was transferred to back to India with immediate effect. According to Daily Mail,” throughout their time over here, diplomat Anil would boast about his diplomatic immunity and he would tell his wife Paromita that no one could touch him because of it. He was shameless with it. He has been given so much power and he is abusing it. Paromita has gone into hiding and seriously fears that her safety and health are in jeopardy.”

Interestingly, the American double standards on the issue of diplomatic immunity can be gauged from the fact that while the Republic of Georgia had waived off the diplomatic immunity of one of its envoys to the US after he was found guilty of driving a car in a drunk state and killing a 16-year-old girl in January 1997, Washington DC had disallowed a similar request forwarded by Romania in December 2004 when a US soldier had killed a popular Romanian musician in Bucharest.

Republic of Georgia thus happens to be one of the few countries on the planet which are known to have waived off the diplomatic immunity of one of its diplomats posted in the US, after he was found guilty of driving a car in a drunken state and killing a 16-year-old girl in January 1997.

The deputy ambassador of the Republic of Georgia to the United States, Gueorgui Makharadze, had hit five people in January 1997, injuring four and killing one. Although the Georgian diplomat was released from custody initially, the US government had asked the Georgian government to waive his immunity.

The Georgian government acceded to the US request and diplomat Makharadze was tried and convicted of manslaughter. He was given a sentence from seven to 21 years in prison. However, after serving three years of his sentence, he was returned to his home country where he spent two more years in jail before being paroled.

On the contrary, an allegedly drunk US Marine stationed in the Romanian capital of Bucharest had collided with a taxi, killing the famous local musician Teo Peter on December 3, 2004. The marine, Christopher Van Goethem, had allegedly violated a traffic signal, which resulted in the collision of his car with the taxi carrying the Romanian rock star Teo Peter. Christopher had fled to Germany before charges could be laid against him.

The Romanian government had then requested the US government to lift the marine’s immunity, but to no avail. In a court-martial back home, the marine was acquitted of manslaughter and adultery, but was convicted of obstruction of justice.

It is worth mentioning that in the United States, if a person with immunity is alleged to have committed a crime or faces a civil lawsuit, the Department of State normally asks the home country to waive immunity of the alleged offender so that the complaint can be moved to the courts. If immunity is not waived, prosecution cannot be undertaken.

However, the Department of State still has the discretion to ask the diplomat to withdraw from her or his duties in the United States. In addition, the diplomat’s visas are often cancelled and his/her family members are barred from returning to the United States. Crimes committed by members of a diplomat’s family can also result in dismissal.

Abuse of diplomatic immunity was made more visible by media coverage in the early 1990s. The abuse spans a variety of activities, ranging from parking violations to more serious criminal behavior such as domestic abuse and rape.

In February 1995, the then New York Mayor Rudolph Giuliani forgave $800,000 in parking tickets accumulated by foreign diplomat-probably as a gesture of goodwill towards the visiting diplomats.

Pakistan News Service - PakTribune