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Raymond Davis Case: Developing Story

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Obviously he is not a diplomat in the traditional sense of the term. However, Americans are being killed in Afghanistan because of bad guys operating from Pakistan, and there is difficult and dangerous work that needs doing. Some Pakistanis may think that he shot two people for fun. But in all likelihood he felt himself under threat, and there is no reason to believe the was not serving honorably.

Sir,

They are not being killed because of bad guys from pakistan---when you point a finger to blame---4 are pointed towards you----why did they not seal the border---. Who stopped them. Long before that---why did they not close all the escape routes of of afh in 2002 before striking afg---. U S milltary is full of lame excuses---for their screw up---they have their media to dump the blame on evrerybody else but them.

They started the war with bad analysis and bad calculations---then they missed every oppurtunity presented to them to make amends of their mistakes and they even failed in that as well---the only thing that they succeeded in was killing a lots of innocent people and blaming everyone else but them.
 
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Exactly!! Raymond Davis is not an example for ANY of my country's diplomats to follow. Hillary Clinton should let him twist in the Pakistani wind as a lesson to any other "cowboy diplomats" that we may have stationed in Pakistan, or even Italy, for that matter. Our diplomats should be read the riot act: If you can't do the job diplomatically, then you are not a diplomat!!!!! Blowing two people away using an illegal weapon, on a public street, is NOT diplomatic!!! I am really, really tired of all the American energy being expended in an effort to save this guy's a$$! Hillary, he is not worth it!!!

This guy Davis has not only blown his own cover, he has blown the lid off a clandestine operation in Pakistan. This will unfairly put all Americans associated with the US embassy under a cloud of suspicion -- even the decent ones working honestly in humanitarian and NGO projects.

I dare say the fallout will extend to US missions and associated personnel in other countries, too. Especially in less-than-friendly countries.

The US is far too civilized for Davis to fear serious reprisals back home; if he had been Russian, he would probably prefer to rot in a Pakistani jail than to go back and face the music.
 
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Obviously, it could be worst idea but we are not Afghanistan& Iraq. News i posted above is clicking over option so option is ever option but not to ignore even if we are strong and confident over impossibility.

Hi,

Please don't dwell on that idea---'we are not afg or iraq'----. American reaction to issues is logarithmic---jusy because you have Davis and have made america back down a tad bit----don't bring the strut to your step yet---. This is not even a millionth of a millionth part of hostilities---.

America is eagerlty waiting for pakistan to do something stupid----american strike forces are waiting to fight a staged war with real manly men----american air force is waiting eagerly to fight an air war with someone with some sting in their strike---.

As I mentioned----the american aggression is logarithmic---which I bet you do understand what it means----if not---the intensity of the american strike increases tenfolds by the hour over the duration of the first 48 hours----.

Let me give you an idea what it would take to neutralize pakistan----48 hours----72 at the most----pak millitary will be a burning hulk of a skeleton.

My goodman----do your thing with Davis----but just keep it at that---anymore----and it will give upset stomach and create hiccups that are not needed.
 
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Obviously, it could be worst idea but we are not Afghanistan& Iraq. News i posted above is clicking over option so option is ever option but not to ignore even if we are strong and confident over impossibility.

Hi,

Please don't dwell on that idea---'we are not afg or iraq'----. American reaction to issues is logarithmic---jusy because you have Davis and have made america back down a tad bit----don't bring the strut to your step yet---. This is not even a millionth of a millionth part of hostilities---.

America is eagerlty waiting for pakistan to do something stupid----american strike forces are waiting to fight a staged war with real manly men----american air force is waiting eagerly to fight an air war with someone with some sting in their strike---.

As I mentioned----the american aggression is logarithmic---which I bet you do understand what it means----if not---the intensity of the american strike increases tenfolds by the hour over the duration of the first 48 hours----.

Let me give you an idea what it would take to neutralize pakistan----48 hours----72 at the most----pak millitary will be a burning hulk of a skeleton.

My goodman----do your thing with Davis----but just keep it at that---anymore----and it will give upset stomach and create hiccups that are not needed.

There is no treatment of chronic fear.
 
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Obviously, it could be worst idea but we are not Afghanistan& Iraq. News i posted above is clicking over option so option is ever option but not to ignore even if we are strong and confident over impossibility.

Hi,

Please don't dwell on that idea---'we are not afg or iraq'----. American reaction to issues is logarithmic---jusy because you have Davis and have made america back down a tad bit----don't bring the strut to your step yet---. This is not even a millionth of a millionth part of hostilities---.

America is eagerlty waiting for pakistan to do something stupid----american strike forces are waiting to fight a staged war with real manly men----american air force is waiting eagerly to fight an air war with someone with some sting in their strike---.

As I mentioned----the american aggression is logarithmic---which I bet you do understand what it means----if not---the intensity of the american strike increases tenfolds by the hour over the duration of the first 48 hours----.

Let me give you an idea what it would take to neutralize pakistan----48 hours----72 at the most----pak millitary will be a burning hulk of a skeleton.

My goodman----do your thing with Davis----but just keep it at that---anymore----and it will give upset stomach and create hiccups that are not needed.

And what do you think? Pakistan Airforce, Pakistan Navy, Pakistan Army will all just sit and watch? Do you work for Indian news channels by any chance?

What is the use of Pakistan having over 100 nuclear weapons? What was the use of spending so much money on our atomic nuclear program? What was the use of eating grass and facing sanctions for those nukes? So they can just collect dust while others destroy Pakistan?
 
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And what do you think? Pakistan Airforce, Pakistan Navy, Pakistan Army will all just sit and watch? Do you work for Indian news channels by any chance?

What is the use of Pakistan having over 100 nuclear weapons? What was the use of spending so much money on our atomic nuclear program? What was the use of eating grass and facing sanctions for those nukes? So they can just collect dust while others destroy Pakistan?

Sir,

These 10o nuc weapons storage would be destroyed in their storage lots----the u s knows that pak needs 4---8 hours to load, assemble and program the nucs----that is all the time to disengage them----.

As for the pak navy and air force----it would seem that they never existed----. I guess I misunderstood that you pleople might understand the term logarithmic responce---now I realize it is not in your knowledge to make anything out of it----. These forces might delay the inevitable by another 24 to 48 hours.

Just deal with Davis for a few days more and then let him go---.
 
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Like someone else posted in another part of the forum, it is not upto the civil govt. or the judiciary to let Davis go, this will be deicided by the GHQ. I believe that this is a stern warning from the ISI to the CIA to "Stop it right there".

I completely disagree with respected Mastan Khan because it is an open secret that with the state of the American economy they cannot afford another open war a la Iraq and Afghanistan. The attack on Iraq was to makeup for the loses suffered in Afghanistan by taking over one of the most abundant sources of crude oil in the world, they have no such attraction to attack Pakistan. The operation in Afghanistan is not the one that will bear instant fruit for USA, it is a strategy that needs time to mature and for that they cannot afford hostility with Pakistan, not as yet.

I think we should let GHQ handle RD and i am sure whatever they do it will be for the benefit of Pakistan because i believe in the Army. I know that they will be the ones standing in front of blazing guns in case of war to protect Pakistan while the civilian govt. will hide in protected bunkers. I know this because in case of a (God forbid, mere mun main khak) military takeover of Pakistan, the military Generals will be the ones hunted down and taken to the gallows while the civil rules will ask for immunity and flee the country to live on already maintained swiss accounts. I believe that our army has more to lose than the civilian rulers.
 
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We should wrap davis in a gift paper- and hand him over to The Ultimate force- Americans- Other wise they gonna destroy us- Pakistanis-
If i tell my Kid that story- he will believe it-
If i tell that to my brother- he will laugh at me and say- You fool- How can America attack us for just 1 person- Yes maybe America can destroy the armies of many nations- in couple of days maybe- but why Pakistan? Are Pakistani nukes stored in just one safe place to be destroyed? Just like that?- Why dont they target practice on Iran- if they are that much capable- which is alleged to have nukes- but against Pakistan with confirm nukes- They gonna go for it-
I will say to myself-- My Kid is intelligent- He will obey his Masters- I should groom him a little more to be perfect- slave
 
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Just deal with Davis for a few days more and then let him go---.

Let's just dissolve Pakistan then and gift it to the US, when we can't do anything that they disagree with, whats the use of such a country? Sir, perhaps you are out of gas to keep the good fight on... But don't pass on the hopelessness onto the people who still have plenty of fight left in them. Above everything else, your attitude is just disappointing.

I'm reminded of the song line:

Ghulami main khush hain, abhi doosron ki
Ke rehtay hain jannat main, woh ahmakon ki.
 
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We should wrap davis in a gift paper- and hand him over to The Ultimate force- Americans- Other wise they gonna destroy us- Pakistanis-
If i tell my Kid that story- he will believe it-
I don't have kids, but I don't imagine ever giving him a lesson in growing up as a coward. Not even an intelligent sensible coward. You teach your kids to do the right thing, no matter what.
 
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I don't have kids, but I don't imagine ever giving him a lesson in growing up as a coward. Not even an intelligent sensible coward. You teach your kids to do the right thing, no matter what.

It was just a figure of speech--- Kid and Brother were used- two show people with different mind sets-
Kid- could be a hopeless person living in Denial-
My Brother- could be a person with- bit of Dignity-fight- or common sense left in him-
 
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Sir,

These 10o nuc weapons storage would be destroyed in their storage lots----the u s knows that pak needs 4---8 hours to load, assemble and program the nucs----that is all the time to disengage them----.

As for the pak navy and air force----it would seem that they never existed----. I guess I misunderstood that you pleople might understand the term logarithmic responce---now I realize it is not in your knowledge to make anything out of it----. These forces might delay the inevitable by another 24 to 48 hours.

Just deal with Davis for a few days more and then let him go---.

My My... Mastan Bahi, you need to start writing novels, seriously your dramatic enough to become the next Tom Clancy... In all honesty do you feel that America would strike Pakistan over RD?

Secondly and i don't want to play the Devil's Advocate but do you really think that Pakistan will just sit there and roll over belly up in the response to a coordinated US Strike?

Consider the following:

The U.S. Army’s preparedness for war has eroded to levels not witnessed by our country in decades. As deployments to Iraq and Afghanistan continue unabated, there is a very real prospect that Army readiness will continue to erode, undermining its ability to meet the theater commanders’ needs and foreclosing any option for the U.S. to respond to conflicts elsewhere around the globe. The degradation of Army readiness is primarily a function of unanticipated high troop deployment levels to Iraq, chronic equipment and personnel shortages, funding constraints, and Pentagon civilian mismanagement.

1. The Army currently has 39 active-duty combat brigades, as it builds to a total of 42 under the restructuring plan known as “modularity.” Over the coming months, roughly 19.5 combat brigades will be committed to Iraq and Afghanistan. Army doctrine calls for 2 units to be held in reserve (for rest and training) for every unit deployed. As of today, the Army has only one unit in reserve for every unit deployed – a ratio that history shows cannot be sustained for any length of time without serious adverse consequences to the force.


2. Moreover, the Army’s Force Generation Model calls for a three-year cycle in which Army active-duty units would deploy for one-year, return and reset over another year, and train and prepare for deployment over the third year. Given current deployment rates and the insufficient number of Army combat brigades, the Army model is conceptually sound but in practice remains little more than a figment of the Army’s imagination.

3. In fact it’s quite likely that Army combat units preparing for the next rotation (07-09) will be “short-cycled”; that is, units will be forced to return to battle with less than one year’s time to recuperate, reset, and train. For example, the 3rd brigade of the 3rd Infantry Division returned from Iraq in February of this year. Prior to the last deployment it had a 16-month preparation period. The brigade now expects to receive its “prepare to deploy” orders within roughly the next 3 months, which would force the brigade to curtail training and eliminate leave for its soldiers.

4. The Army’s ability to meet CS/CSS unit requirements is constrained by the lack of Guard and Reserve soldiers available to meet future missions. Of the 341,000 Army National Guard soldiers in uniform, only roughly 50,000 remain available for mobilization. For the Army Reserve, only about 56,000 of the 190,000 in uniform are available. Thus, Army leaders expressed strong concern about the need to re-examine the Administration’s current policy of not extending the reserve mobilization period beyond two years.

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Now consider the assets they need for a conflict of the "GRAND" scale you are proposing and then consider the following:
1. “Since 9/11, we have reset and returned over 1,900 aircraft, over 14,000 track vehicles, almost 111,000 wheeled vehicles, as well as thousands of other items to our operational units,” Schoomaker told the House committee last week. “By the end of this year – fiscal year 2006, which will end in three months – we will have placed approximately 290,000 major items of equipment into reset. Approximately 280,000 major items will remain in theater and will not redeploy to be reset until the drawdown [of U.S. forces in Iraq] is implemented.”

With this week’s missile tests by North Korea and simmering tension surrounding Iran’s potential nuclear weapons capability, national security leaders and analysts are increasingly alarmed about potential obstacles to deploying U.S. troops outside of existing commitments.

Although ground troops bear the greatest brunt of combat duty in Iraq and Afghanistan, the House memo also notes strains the current operations are having on the Air Force.

“Despite claims that Air Force readiness levels are stable, it must be noted that readiness is at an historic low and the factors associated with current shortfalls will likely fuel a continued decline,” according to the memo.

The service operates many of the Pentagon’s so-called “high-demand/low- density” forces – such as command and control aircraft, combat search and rescue planes, air refuelers, and intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance aircraft – which are used heavily and are in short supply.

– Elaine M. Grossman

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Now add to this the Human Factor: The issues of Combat Stress and Battle Fatigue:

US ARMY Field Manual 22:51 - Definition AR 40-216:
22-51F5-1.gif


With these poor boys and girls being stuck in theateres in Iraq and Afghanistan, having leaves reduced, having tours extended... Do you feel that is a good thing for the morale of fighting forces....

Do you really think, these "Real MANLY" men you refer to don't suffer attrition, or are they John Rambo, UniSol and Captain America rolled into one?

Now even if you ignore this, consider the following angles :

The Financial Angle:
Robert Gates, the US Defence Secretary, has said military spending must be cut by up to $15 billion a year and that the US cannot afford to enter into another Afghanistan or Iraq.

The Political Angle:

Opposition to the war in Afghanistan is at an all-time high, with 63 percent of the public now opposed to U.S. involvement there, according to a new CNN/Opinion Research Corporation survey.

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So you see Mastan Bahi, whilst its all too easy to play the scaremonger and present a wonderfully worded write up on how we are the dust beneath the American Boot, the FACTS on the ground present a very different story.

Whilst i enjoy reading your posts, your recent scaremongering is becoming a tad bit much. It is funny that you highlight the strengths of the American's yet leave out the fact that Pakistan has developed second strike capability, and that whilst we are no where as strong conventionally, this "ATTACK" you talk about would be a total disaster for the US, and Washington knows it.

You really underestimate Pakistan, mastan sb... Hum ney ghar me choorian nahi pahen rakhi hain :).
 
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