Ram Mandir in Ayodhya

[possumlot]

But why the insistence that the Ram Temple has to be on the exact spot as where a temple and then a mosque previously stood? Scriptures/Ramayana merely say Lord Ram was born in Ayodhya, so a temple can be built anywhere in Ayodhya in his honour, innit? Besides, the place itself was known as Saketa in ancient times, and it was probably the Guptas who renamed it as Ayodhya.

Even the Somnath temple today stands a few hundred metres away from where it was originally built. If that is good enough, why not apply the same rule in Ayodhya?

The same reason why Jerusulum could not be sifted to an convenient empty spot in the sahara desert and Israel couldn't be formed in any other part of the world and the same reason the kaaba could not be shifted to any other place. Thus preventing millions of wars and deaths.

FAITH

Stop injecting disinformation by speculating on Saketa and guptas. I detest red herrings.

Even ancient records posted earlier tells of RamKote being the birth place of sri Ram and his brothers.

This line of argument is pointless since the faith of hundreds of million identifies that land as Ram Janmabhoomi.


Second good reason is to finally provide JUSTICE to the Hindus and help the Hindu community for peace and reconciliation. ............... or would you much rather prefer the Muslim collective of India submit a formal apology to the Hindus of India for the past atrocities ?....since they are the one now supporting continuation of that horrible mark of injustice ............ relocating the defunct mosque is a far better option, no ?

 

[Indischer]

The Garba Grah in the temple is where Hindus believe Lord ram was born, Muslims has no logical, emotional or otherwise reason to claim the Garba Grah, Allahabad High Court ruling was spot on

But what is the antiquity of the temple underneath the Masjid? Has the ASI clarified on that yet?

And Lord Ram was born in a Palace. Hence, there must also be the remains of a palace underneath the temple if it is indeed to be believed that the Garbhagriha of the temple was the exact spot of his birth.

 

[Fireurimagination]

I believe the Ram temple will be built most probably by court order or by out of court negotiation in the 4-5th year of Modi's tenure, this will also ensure Modi storms back for another 5 years

 

[possumlot]

But what is the antiquity of the temple underneath the Masjid? Has the ASI clarified on that yet?

And Lord Ram was born in a Palace. Hence, there must also be the remains of a palace underneath the temple if it is indeed to be believed that the Garbhagriha of the temple was the exact spot of his birth.

Antiquity of temple as per ASI finding is 3300 years.

Don't you read the thread and posts ? ....RamKoti as per ancient records was a FORT. A grand one at that. ...........what is the translation of KOTI ? ....its PALACE.

I believe the Ram temple will be built most probably by court order or by out of court negotiation in the 4-5th year of Modi's tenure, this will also ensure Modi storms back for another 5 years

Dr. Swamy provides a good roadmap for settling this once and for all.

Don't link this to any election agenda. The Mandir has to come, irrespective of who's in power. Last time under Vajpayee it was BJP who tried to push this issue into the back burner.

 

[Fireurimagination]

But what is the antiquity of the temple underneath the Masjid? Has the ASI clarified on that yet?

And Lord Ram was born in a Palace. Hence, there must also be the remains of a palace underneath the temple if it is indeed to be believed that the Garbhagriha of the temple was the exact spot of his birth.

Hindus believe since time immemorial that Lord Ram was born in Ayodhya in the Garbhagriha of that temple and prayed there 100s of year before even babar was born, it's more of a matter of faith

 

[Indischer]

The same reason why Jerusulum could not be sifted to an convenient empty spot in the sahara desert and Israel couldn't be formed in any other part of the world and the same reason the kaaba could not be shifted to any other place. Thus preventing millions of wars and deaths.

FAITH

Stop injecting disinformation by speculating on Saketa and guptas. I detest red herrings.

Even ancient records posted earlier tells of RamKote being the birth place of sri Ram and his brothers.

This line of argument is pointless since the faith of hundreds of million identifies that land as Ram Janmabhoomi.


Second good reason is to finally provide JUSTICE to the Hindus and help the Hindu community for peace and reconciliation. ............... or would you much rather prefer the Muslim collective of India submit a formal apology to the Hindus of India for the past atrocities ?....since they are the one now supporting continuation of that horrible mark of injustice ............ relocating the defunct mosque is a far better option, no ?

But you're comparing two different scales here. Jerusalem is a city and Israel is a large region, both of which aren't in the scale of a temple. And Kaaba is indeed comparable, just that no one else other than Muslims has been claiming it as part of their faith.

And you just reiterated my point, that Ramkote is the birthplace, and hence a temple built at any point in RamKote shall carry equal weightage and honour towards Lord Rama. Why the insistence that we do to Muslims what their savages did to us in medieval times?

And what justice are you talking about here? Building a temple there atop the Babri Masjid will in no way change the past. The invasions, the killings, the conversions...none of them will be erased with the construction of a temple there. Or would you rather prefer to believe that with the construction of that temple atop the Masjid, all historical scores shall be levelled?

Antiquity of temple as per ASI finding is 3300 years.

Don't you read the thread and posts ? ....RamKoti as per ancient records was a FORT. A grand one at that. ...........what is the translation of KOTI ? ....its PALACE.



Dr. Swamy provides a good roadmap for settling this once and for all.

Don't link this to any election agenda. The Mandir has to come, irrespective of who's in power. Last time under Vajpayee it was BJP who tried to push this issue into the back burner.

A Kote is a Fort mate, not a palace. And I haven't read the ASI survey details regarding it's antiquity. Post it if you have the links.

 

[INDIC]

There are ample evidences of a temple structure beneath the mosque but there is neither any proof that it had been considered as a birth place of Lord Rama, nor there is a single evidence that Babar destroyed it. The whole thing sets up a very wrong precedent to the whole nation, INDIC. We can ignore it now without realizing its further significance.

There are European traveler's account that people considered that place as birthplace of Lord Rama. I believe we should come out of this apologistic attitude, this apologists attitude of whitewashing the real history is not a good thing and we all are aware what effect it put on the majority community of this country. Now, since the events occurred in 16th century, we should only discuss what to with that land instead of history denial that no Lord Rama was born there or no temple existed there.

 

[possumlot]

But you're comparing two different scales here. Jerusalem is a city and Israel is a large region, both of which aren't in the scale of a temple. And Kaaba is indeed comparable, just that no one else other than Muslims has been claiming it as part of their faith.

And you just reiterated my point, that Ramkote is the birthplace, and hence a temple built at any point in RamKote shall carry equal weightage and honour towards Lord Rama. Why the insistence that we do to Muslims what their savages did to us in medieval times?

And what justice are you talking about here? Building a temple there atop the Babri Masjid will in no way change the past. The invasions, the killings, the conversions...none of them will be erased with the construction of a temple there. Or would you rather prefer to believe that with the construction of that temple atop the Masjid, all historical scores shall be levelled?

You do know that Kaaba was a TEMPLE before muhammed barged in and broke all the idols, right? .....A LOT of people can claim ownership. Only doing it inside a muslim country will get them killed.

I have just answered your question and you ask me the same question AGAIN. Read my previous post again.

Another red herring, steps for peace and reconciliation is not"erasing the past", Its ACKNOWLEDGING the past. The muslims of today are the INHERITORS of the muslim past. The same way hindu's of today are inheritors of the hindu past.

I have already answered these questions.....read my earlier post again.

Don't argue for the sake of arguing.

 

[Indischer]

Hindus believe since time immemorial that Lord Ram was born in Ayodhya in the Garbhagriha of that temple and prayed there 100s of year before even babar was born, it's more of a matter of faith

Sure, but that's not evidence enough to win a legal battle. And all Hindus don't believe that Lord Ram was born at the exact spot where that temple stood. Where exactly has this even been claimed?

 

[possumlot]

A Kote is a Fort mate, not a palace. And I haven't read the ASI survey details regarding it's antiquity. Post it if you have the links.

Kote is a house built with 10 million bricks, fort or palace. ...........I am "new" here, so cant post links. Google it up.

 

[Indischer]

You do know that Kaaba was a TEMPLE before muhammed barged in and broke all the idols, right? .....A LOT of people can claim ownership. Only doing it inside a muslim country will get them killed.

I have just answered your question and you ask me the same question AGAIN. Read my previous post again.

Another red herring, steps for peace and reconciliation is not"erasing the past", Its ACKNOWLEDGING the past. The muslims of today are the INHERITORS of the muslim past. The same way hindu's of today are inheritors of the hindu past.

I have already answered these questions.....read my earlier post again.

Don't argue for the sake of arguing.

Or more like there are none in Arabia today who worship the pagan idols which were inside the Kaaba.

And I'm not arguing for the sake of it mate. It's genuinely my conviction that Lord Rama's glory shall not be harmed in the slightest bit if a temple is built elsewhere in Ayodhya.

Setting out to undo acts of barbarism that were committed in medieval times will only deepen the fissures in the present rather than bringing about any reconcilement. I'd rather restrict myself to seeing Indian muslims acknowledging their Indian heritage than being apologetic over the acts of their perceived ancestors. It's like asking me to apologize for the acts of some Brahmin bigots 500 years ago or me taking credit for the contributions of Shankaracharya. Both are unnecessary,unrealistic and in no way reflect or change my present status and contributions.

 

[possumlot]

Sure, but that's not evidence enough to win a legal battle. And all Hindus don't believe that Lord Ram was born at the exact spot where that temple stood. Where exactly has this even been claimed?

You are again indulging in misdirection.

ALL evidence show the existence of the temple and possession of the land by hindus for the last 14 years. LEGALLY that land should have become ours by now.

Sri Ram being born in the exact spot has NOTHING to do with it so stop raking it up. Its DISHONEST of you.

 

[Indischer]

You are again indulging in misdirection.

ALL evidence show the existence of the temple and possession of the land by hindus for the last 14 years. LEGALLY that land should have become ours by now.

Sri Ram being born in the exact spot has NOTHING to do with it so stop raking it up. Its DISHONEST of you.

That was in reply to fireurimagination's point that it's a matter of belief amongst Hindus. I just had to remind him that Lord Rama's birthplace is known from the Ramayana, not the spot of his birth.

 

[possumlot]

Or more like there are none in Arabia today who worship the pagan idols which were inside the Kaaba.

And I'm not arguing for the sake of it mate. It's genuinely my conviction that Lord Rama's glory shall not be harmed in the slightest bit if a temple is built elsewhere in Ayodhya.

Setting out to undo acts of barbarism that were committed in medieval times will only deepen the fissures in the present rather than bringing about any reconcilement. I'd rather restrict myself to seeing Indian muslims acknowledging their Indian heritage than being apologetic over the acts of their perceived ancestors. It's like asking me to apologize for the acts of some Brahmin bigots 500 years ago or me taking credit for the contributions of Shankaracharya. Both are unnecessary,unrealistic and in no way reflect or change my present status and contributions.

Even Hindus can claim Kaaba based on historical evidence ......Jews can claim it too. It is not exclusively muslim.

Again Lord Ram's glory has NOTHING to do with it. You are free to believe that building toilets will bring more glory to Sri. Ram. That has NOTHING to do with the dispute.

Again undoing the act of Barbarism has NOTHING to do with the issue. You are AGAIN being DISHONEST.

Muslims has NO logical reason for insisting on that space. Hindus have multiple reason. Going purely by "reason and logic" the matter is already settled.

Its only antagonism that is the hindrance.

That was in reply to fireurimagination's point that it's a matter of belief amongst Hindus. I just had to remind him that Lord Rama's birthplace is known from the Ramayana, not the spot of his birth.

Known to YOU from the Ramayana. It is known to the people there though their collective memory and historical consciousness.

 

[Indischer]

Even Hindus can claim Kaaba based on historical evidence ......Jews can claim it too. It is not exclusively muslim.

Again Lord Ram's glory has NOTHING to do with it. You are free to believe that building toilets will bring more glory to Sri. Ram. That has NOTHING to do with the dispute.

Again undoing the act of Barbarism has NOTHING to do with the issue. You are AGAIN being DISHONEST.

Muslims has NO logical reason for insisting on that space. Hindus have multiple reason. Going purely by "reason and logic" the matter is already settled.

Its only antagonism that is the hindrance.

If any Hindu idols are found there, sure, why not? But the idols at Kaaba were Mesopotamian deities, not Indian. Allat, Manat, Al-uzza etc don't sound all that Indian to me.

If undoing acts of earlier barbarism isn't the issue, then what is? The gyanvapi mosque is also in the news frequently as an example similar to Babri Masjid. Will that be left alone, if all this isn't about righting the past wrongs?

Known to YOU from the Ramayana. It is known to the people there though their collective memory and historical consciousness.

So I was right in saying that not all Hindus believe in their version. What they believe in is a local legend. What ALL Hindus believe in, however, is that Lord Rama was born in Ayodhya.