RAFALE VS F-16 BLOCK52+

[Manticore]

During the next indo pak KICK OFF the PaKISTANIS will see forthemselves WHY IAF did not buy the F16 OR F18 MMRCA.

Those 18 block 52S + 45 MLU F16 will be STARVED OF SPARES and munitions.

There will be fatigues and damage and PAF will need service spares and missles,

BUT USA will stop at nothing to stop the WAR asap.

" THAT IS ONE OF 4 MAJOR REASONS " why IAF was sm,art to go for euro canards

remember IAF has used british & french fighters for 50 years

usa planes never....

please tell us something new - all your 1500 posts carry the same msg

i dont think all our hopes will be pinned on the f16s -- fc20 will ATLEAST be as competant as blk52s -- most of the integrations are already done on the j10 [j10a] , so its induction will be quick aswell.

jfts with long range precision guided weapons integrated with awacs will also make life miserable for the iaf

rumours of russian engines being bought for paf j10b are in the air

 

[SBD-3]

During the next indo pak KICK OFF the PaKISTANIS will see forthemselves WHY IAF did not buy the F16 OR F18 MMRCA.

Those 18 block 52S + 45 MLU F16 will be STARVED OF SPARES and munitions.

There will be fatigues and damage and PAF will need service spares and missles,

BUT USA will stop at nothing to stop the WAR asap.

" THAT IS ONE OF 4 MAJOR REASONS " why IAF was sm,art to go for euro canards

remember IAF has used british & french fighters for 50 years

usa planes never....

But what will happen to IAF's 126 Typhoons or Rafales if US pressurises French or Germans to stay away? Will these two be able to stand the pressure? French have a history of back stabbing while Typhoon's problem is that too many nations are involved in it even if US stops some of them Typhoon spares will be equally unavailable. The only free option with IAF was Russia which could prove reliable option in any such event.
Once in PAF's hand, if US decides to sanction these platforms, PAF will have "other ways" to deal with this issue. I hope you understand.

 

[deckingraj]

With all due respect my advice for you would be to read more on this subject than write...

But what will happen to IAF's 126 Typhoons or Rafales if US pressurises French or Germans to stay away? Will these two be able to stand the pressure? French have a history of back stabbing while Typhoon's problem is that too many nations are involved in it even if US stops some of them Typhoon spares will be equally unavailable.

Good luck pressuring France...My advice please learn a thing or two about foreign policy of France...B/w American can pressurize for those fighters where there is American involvement...

The only free option with IAF was Russia which could prove reliable option in any such event.

???? - what do you mean???

Once in PAF's hand, if US decides to sanction these platforms, PAF will have "other ways" to deal with this issue. I hope you understand.

Good luck with those "Other Ways"....

 

[SBD-3]

With all due respect my advice for you would be to read more on this subject than write...



Good luck pressuring France...My advice please learn a thing or two about foreign policy of France...B/w American can pressurize for those fighters where there is American involvement...



???? - what do you mean???




Good luck with those "Other Ways"....

I never though someone would get offended on just views. Anyways, Can you explain what is the foreign policy of France since you seem quite familiar with it apparently. Did they stood firmly on any global Issue when pressurized? When in arms dealings, ever body knows their way to do business. Double gaming, Back stabbing and backing out is somewhat trademark of their modus operandi. Anyways, I would like to see them showing balls in case of need, which i havent seen till now other than "yes sir, we are with you". R
2- Russia, even after the fall of Great Union has been more free from US or any other political influence. So one can be sure that if Russians are willing, they wont be subdued by US.
3- PAF has been maintaining its Falcon fleet in a decade long Sanctions. If they could do it previously, why not now.....

 

[Silk]

Hasnain friend,

2 points that either are good or bad...

1. Back then it was a basic plane with hardly high tech parts. Maintaining block15 is not the same as block52.
2. Right now PAC is able to produce reasonable JF17 and even its components. It means a quantum leap so it would be easier to make F16 parts if needed. Certainly with China going fast.

I have no idea what is most important.

 

[SBD-3]

Hasnain friend,

2 points that either are good or bad...

1. Back then it was a basic plane with hardly high tech parts. Maintaining block15 is not the same as block52.
2. Right now PAC is able to produce reasonable JF17 and even its components. It means a quantum leap so it would be easier to make F16 parts if needed. Certainly with China going fast.

I have no idea what is most important.

I never wanted it to be included in "other ways".......
Anyways, I do agree, maintaining Block 52 is significantly different. However, does that imply that PAF will just have them rest in case something like this turns up or either way by hook or crook, they will try too keep these birds flying

 

[deckingraj]

I never though someone would get offended on just views.

Buddy, being rude is not my cup of tea....Please read my message again...i started by saying "with all due respect"...All i am saying is that it seems you don't know much on the topic so it would be better to read more on this...Anyhow if you feel i was rude to you then i apologize...

Anyways, Can you explain what is the foreign policy of France since you seem quite familiar with it apparently. Did they stood firmly on any global Issue when pressurized? When in arms dealings, ever body knows their way to do business. Double gaming, Back stabbing and backing out is somewhat trademark of their modus operandi.

Though i don't share the sentiments but please understand whatever they did, they did for themselves....Not under pressure...

1- Anyways, I would like to see them showing balls in case of need, which i havent seen till now other than "yes sir, we are with you".

Then you need to read a lot..For a strater read their role in Security council on "Iraq war" in 2005...

2- Russia, even after the fall of Great Union has been more free from US or any other political influence. So one can be sure that if Russians are willing, they wont be subdued by US.

There is no doubt about it....However unfortunately their plane got rejected like yankees...so let's leave it there....

3- PAF has been maintaining its Falcon fleet in a decade long Sanctions. If they could do it previously, why not now.....

You don't want to be in that situation again...It has adverse impact on many paramters especially the rate of sorties...Anyways good job PAF but saying that it can be repeated "n" number of times will be taking the argument overboard...

 

[Storm Force]

The other 3 PRINCIPLE reasons WHY IAF went for euiro canards include...

IAF has suggested a timeline until 2040 for mmrca to remain frontl;ine fighter. IN THIS REPECT the euro.s will defo remain frontline both in india UK & france / germany until then. The other contenders both F16 & F18 WILL BE GRADUALY PHASED out POST 2020 AND NO FUTURE INVESTMENT certainly not on previous scales.

Secondly IAF has previous history of european fighters post 1947 ie mysteres jaguars & mirage2000 frm france and canberras hunters sea harriers from UK. ITS TRIED TRUSTED AND PROVEN relationships.

Thirdly IAF can amend, add, improve the euro canards as they wish using any technology from any nation including israel or russia or indengious ,,,,,with USA fighters you cannot do this.

INFACT LOOKING AT MY POINTS which idiot air force would buy from USA with so many restrictions

ESP a real air power that is likely to go to war at any time like India.

 

[Dazzler]

You seem to have a world of your own but for your info, when the war arises, all the western equipment is sanction prone regardless whether India is using them or Pakistan. Despite technologically superior to Russian equipment in some cases, going for Western is a political mistake that we have regretted for this very reason for 50 years! But you have a perfect world where India holds all cards so believe what you want.

 

[Storm Force]

nabil 05 DONT UNDERSTAND YOUR sarcastic remark.

Dekinraj and 1 or 2 others asked why IAF will take rafale or typhoon over F16 & F18 i have given reasons why.

If the pakistanis or i deed any other nation believe USA is the best THEN GREAT FOR THEM.

the indians dont trust the yanks enough as yet even though they did bend over back wards to win mmrca and even now sniffing with F35 offers as well.

INDIA WILL NOT BUY ANMERCAN combat planes END OF DEBATE

" IF TO YOU this means my world dream world " THEN SO BE IT. no problem

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

Pak indian war scenario will be between 15 to 30 days-----. So---sanction issue really does not come into force-----so whatever stockpile each country have---will be used to its max----. Numerical superiority should be a major concern---until and unless pak can come up with a very strong ground to air missile system----medium and long range---that will neutralize some of the numerical superiority.

 

[Pfpilot]

Shouldnt a shorter war scenario neutralize the numerical superiority to a great extent. In a shorter war, the attrition wont be nearly as big of a deal as it would be if the conflict went on for a few months. Being on the offensive, assuming India throws everything at us, there will be a requirement to keep aircraft airborne for as much time as possible and that will result in losses, but nowhere near as many if the war was prolonged.
In such a case, having a smaller force, with newer airframes in the block 52s and jf-17s will allow for aircraft to have less maintenance issues and be capable of performing the maximum number of sorties, playing to our advantage, if there ever was such a thing in war.
This is not to say the IAF will not be superior and they will also have the new airframes, but in such cases, the strategies and ideologies greatly impact the effectiveness of the airforce and in our territory, backed by AWACs providing a constant picture of the larger war theatre, we will have a definite advantage.

 

[MastanKhan]

WHAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. You have to consider the multiplier effect of the enemy's best aircraft in weapons load and offensive strike power when you compare it to a mirage 3-5 or a jf 17 or f 16----.

Higher numbers will take out the lesser numbers----unless your top line aifcraft can take on their top line air craft one on one without prejudice----secondly----your ground to air missiles provide you with the needed support.

Bottomline----switch the positions----think that you have those majority of aircraft----and the country with lesser number and inferior aircraft is saying----no problem we will take you out-----wouldn't you be laughing at them.

 

[majesticpankaj]

In a war scenario... IAF will have the lesser number of targets... Unless and until u can't get rid of base support of the enemy u can't do anything..
IAf will go full throttle to dismantle pakistani bases... while PAF will be more concern about the defence of it's assets rather than destroying IAF's bases..
And in a war defence is no policy

 

[SBD-3]

WHAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. You have to consider the multiplier effect of the enemy's best aircraft in weapons load and offensive strike power when you compare it to a mirage 3-5 or a jf 17 or f 16----.

Higher numbers will take out the lesser numbers----unless your top line aifcraft can take on their top line air craft one on one without prejudice----secondly----your ground to air missiles provide you with the needed support.

Bottomline----switch the positions----think that you have those majority of aircraft----and the country with lesser number and inferior aircraft is saying----no problem we will take you out-----wouldn't you be laughing at them.

But a point in case you missed is how much of the excess inventory IAF will deploy against PAF? If you consider the view that they deploy 100% of their assets against Pakistan, yes we may say the PAF can be overwhelmed. But with growing hostility in almost every direction of India, will IAF risk such a venture by exposing its tail inorder to fully arm its teeth? So is the view of numerical superiority, even if PAF maintains circa 50% of IAF inventory, it remains almost 1-1 paired.