RAFALE VS F-16 BLOCK52+

[Windjammer]

I agree with that logic . Even US should abandon Raptor and buy 10-15 JFT instead of it and money is the same.

Put it this way, when the US Carrier fleet sets sail, it has about a dozen other vessels protecting the mother ship, how many other countries can afford to replenish such numbers. When the likes of Raptors and Night hawks go into battle, don't forget to take into account all other gadgets likes of J-Stars that provide the protective umberalla .

 

[majesticpankaj]

Put it this way, when the US Carrier fleet sets sail, it has about a dozen other vessels protecting the mother ship, how many other countries can afford to replenish such numbers. When the likes of Raptors and Night hawks go into battle, don't forget to take into account all other gadgets likes of J-Stars that provide the protective umberalla .

put it that way when a rafale goes on a war mission will it go alone or without any protective umbrella??

 

[SpArK]

Put it this way, when the US Carrier fleet sets sail, it has about a dozen other vessels protecting the mother ship, how many other countries can afford to replenish such numbers. When the likes of Raptors and Night hawks go into battle, don't forget to take into account all other gadgets likes of J-Stars that provide the protective umberalla .

I suppose we are talking 1 on 1 not 7 vs 1.. or maybe for ur convenience.. then lets talk a squadron vs squadron.

Shall i use the same logic for F-16s Vs Mig-21 then? Dont that seem a bit odd?

 

[Windjammer]

I suppose we are talking 1 on 1 not 7 vs 1.. or maybe for ur convenience.. then lets talk a squadron vs squadron.

Shall i use the same logic for F-16s Vs Mig-21 then? Dont that seem a bit odd?

Read my post#199 to enlighten your self, the equation was Dollar for Dollar. Suffice to add when was the last time India or Pakistan risked attacking a single target with a whole squadron.
Albeit the MIG-21 is basically a point defence fighter with limited attack capability where as the F-16 is a multi role platform, however since both India and Pakistan still retain these aircraft in respective designations, they must full fill a purpose, nothing odd about that.

 

[nForce]

Look at it from a strategic point of view, Dollar for Dollar, you send say a Rafale for one mission and six JFT for the other, if the Rafale gets hit, it's adiós where as even 50% of the JFTs survive, they will still be able to do some damage. !!

You are sounding more like those good old Soviets there...Quantity over quality.What if you have the bucks to pump in quality in quantity?

I thought it was PAF doctrine to maintain a small but qualitatively superior fleet.Anyways I can see that change now.

 

[nForce]

You are correct. However the reason behind buying the fighters which we have chosen is independence and camparative capabilites within our economic constraints.
Araz

Understood

 

[Windjammer]

You are sounding more like those good old Soviets there...Quantity over quality.What if you have the bucks to pump in quality in quantity?

I thought it was PAF doctrine to maintain a small but qualitatively superior fleet.Anyways I can see that change now.

So in hind sight you are saying that the pride of IAF's fleet, the SU-30 is a product of the numerical mind sets. ?? !!
In any case whatever lies under the airframe, it's only as vital as the driver in the seat, the fact has been repeatedly proven.
And if there was compromise on quality, the PAF wouldn't have retired the still potent A-5s so early which incidentally were the only twin engine fighter jets in it's inventory.

 

[notorious_eagle]

notorious_eagle...my friend; google for the Typhoon customers. Typhoon is offering more then F-15/F-16/F-18s. Surely Saudis count they bought it and they are now the customer nobody can deny that. Future is bright for the Typhoon, how is Typhoon a decade late.

I have Googled Typhoon customers, look at the latest numbers, the RAF and Luftwaffe are reducing their numbers owing to the huge costs of the aircraft and the program overall. What exactly is MORE that the Typhoon is offering as compared to the Legacy Fighters. It is still yet to have an operational AESA Radar, while on the other hand all legacy fighters have operational AESA Radars. Its complete Avionics Package and Weapon Systems are still under development; while all the legacy fighters feature the latest package of avionics, external EW and Reccon Pods, JHMCS and the latest weapons such as the AIM9X, AIM120D, JDAMS, Harpoons etc something which the Typhoon can only dream of offering right now. Typhoon is late because whatever capabilities its supposed to offer, the Americans were offering that with their fighters a decade ago. While the Americans are focussing on the F35 and F22, the Europeans are still trying to fully complete those planned upgrades. Its late because the program began in 1983, its 2011 now and the aircraft is yet to feature fully operational capabilities. Future of Typhoon largely rests on the Indians, if the Indians refuse to buy it, forget about all these fancy upgrades because no European Govt will sink more money in this program.

By your logic Chinese are also into illogical projects developing 4th generation and 4.5 generation fighters at the same time. So the question is Why Chinese are investing in J-11s/JH-7s/FC-1s/J-10s why not focus on 5th generation only. No Chinese are not fool nor are Europeans. Please understand more then 100 Tornados were there for A2G role but now requirements have changed. Your superstar F-16s around the world are both used for A2A/A2G, do you not think Typhoons can do what Vipers can do. Don't live in that sortie cost thing in war you'll be spending 3 times more and what will you guys do when the rest of the world enters the era of 5th generation still the rant of cost will loom? this habit must end..

Libyan conflict is important to mention because no matter what Typhoon has demonstrated its A2G role for the last 3 months that is a big plus point.

A very huge difference, the Chinese up until last decade were only building F7' and J8's. Its only in this decade that they have focused on building 4th Generation Fighters, this is why its not fair to compare the Chinese because they are a little late to the party. While the Europeans have been building the latest aircrafts since the end of WW2, so its no excuse for them for such a delay for this program. Whether you accept the reality or not, this program has been a failure and if the Indians dont choose this aircraft, its future is extremely bleak.

 

[DARKY]

Look at it from a strategic point of view, Dollar for Dollar, you send say a Rafale for one mission and six JFT for the other, if the Rafale gets hit, it's adiós where as even 50% of the JFTs survive, they will still be able to do some damage. !!

I suppose you understand that Fighter planes are complex and costly stuff where every party wants give the best it can.
Now about numerical thing we won't send 1 rafale or 7 JF-17 on an interception mission can we??the best possible senario would see couple of them irrespective of their cost.
When you talk of quantity over quality then you must have either of them 250 JF-17 is less than 272 flankers+200 MRCA/Mirage so even quantity gets you nowhere so why not foucus on quality as you always had.

 

[SpArK]

 

[Markus]

Look at it from a strategic point of view, Dollar for Dollar, you send say a Rafale for one mission and six JFT for the other, if the Rafale gets hit, it's adiós where as even 50% of the JFTs survive, they will still be able to do some damage. !!

Is there any air force on this planet that sends out ONE fighter plane on a mission?

Fighters are sent out in pairs and are supposed to complement each other even if its a recce.

More fighters can also be dispatched depending on the strength and the type of enemy fighters.

 

[SpArK]

 

[DARKY]

So in hind sight you are saying that the pride of IAF's fleet, the SU-30 is a product of the numerical mind sets. ?? !!
In any case whatever lies under the airframe, it's only as vital as the driver in the seat, the fact has been repeatedly proven.
And if there was compromise on quality, the PAF wouldn't have retired the still potent A-5s so early which incidentally were the only twin engine fighter jets in it's inventory.

Its only in PDF that you guys come up with stuff like our pilots are better drives and those fast and furious dialoge, What you don't realise that guys across the border are notching 250hrs/annum on flankers.................when you are struglling to get spares to keep your F-16 in flying conditions...................what do you people think those pilots are dumb or what even after 1000+ hrs of flying experience on flanker your new bies would humble them do you people learn flying before birth or what............lol.

 

[Skull and Bones]

Deadliest combo possible in this part of Asia.

 

[Bossman]

Typhoon had the capabilities of being multirole it was limited because it was initially an Air Superiority Fighter.

It was always designed as a multirole aircraft but it did not achieve it multirole capability many years after becoming operational.