Rafale & Sukhoi Can't Replace Each Other: IAF Chief

[The enlightened]

Let's just leave the issue

MMRCA history

2007: Tender floated with preliminary outlay of $10.4bn hence routinely called the $10 billion MMRCA by media
2008: Technical evals (actually 07 itself)
2009: More Technical evals
2010: Still more technical evals
2011: Raffy and Typhy pass technical evals
2012: Raffy and Typhy place their bids. Lowest (L1) wins.
2012: Raffy is declared L1 (without declaring the price). Negotiations begin
2013: Negotiations continue
2014: Negotiations still continue
2015: Echo_419 thinks $10 billion (rounded off figure of 10.4bn) is L1 and pesters The enlightened about it. Generates facepalms all across the thread. In other news, negotiations still continue.

 

[Omega007]

The problem is the Price which the Frenchies are demanding

A Su30MKI cost 58 Million USD, add the proposed Super 30 upgrade being discussed, and the Figure goes up to 81 Million USD.
Rafale on the other hand will cost 120 Million USD each

Dude,with all due respect,the 58 Mil USD figure of MKI used to be its fly away cost,not the life cycle cost.And in any case,it's a very old figure,today the MKIs cost much more that............around 70-75 mil USD per unit if I'm not wrong.

 

[GURU DUTT]

its realli funny to see kickbacks greedy & "foriegn maal loving" IAF desparatelli trying to sell rafale to indian publik when new govt hasmade it clear that PMO& MOD cant be taken fora ride by french and there indian stooges

as for new fighters well my assesment is MOD has made up its mind for 3 squads of Mig 35s + 5 squads on Tejas (1MK1 & 2 MK2) and couple of squads of MKI with "better engines"& AESA radar & AESA based EW suite & self protection jammers

 

[Koovie]

The IAF Chief should have kept his F-king mouth shut. Why woud he say such things when negotiations are on going? No f-king clue how to use leverage. This guy is an idiot. He basically told the French all they needed to know. What a clueless shit. No aptitude for being cunning.

Of course... random idiot who thinks hes tough by throwing around with f-words like some pissed off frustrated teenager on an online defence forum knows more than a seasoned officer with decades of experience...

 

[Echo_419]

MMRCA history

2007: Tender floated with preliminary outlay of $10.4bn hence routinely called the $10 billion MMRCA by media
2008: Technical evals (actually 07 itself)
2009: More Technical evals
2010: Still more technical evals
2011: Raffy and Typhy pass technical evals
2012: Raffy and Typhy place their bids. Lowest (L1) wins.
2012: Raffy is declared L1 (without declaring the price). Negotiations begin
2013: Negotiations continue
2014: Negotiations still continue
2015: Echo_419 thinks $10 billion (rounded off figure of 10.4bn) is L1 and pesters The enlightened about it. Generates facepalms all across the thread. In other news, negotiations still continue.

Okay,you answer a simple question
if the outlay for the deal is 10.4 billion the MOD would tell the bidders to name a price in the range of 10.4 billion
Simple as that,why would MOD consider a Bid which is more than what is allotted for MMRCA tender

 

[Koovie]

its realli funny to see kickbacks greedy & "foriegn maal loving" IAF desparatelli trying to sell rafale to indian publik when new govt hasmade it clear that PMO& MOD cant be taken fora ride by french and there indian stooges

as for new fighters well my assesment is MOD has made up its mind for 3 squads of Mig 35s + 5 squads on Tejas (1MK1 & 2 MK2) and couple of squads of MKI with "better engines"& AESA radar & AESA based EW suite & self protection jammers

BS. The IAF is the only party which actually knows what the IAF needs... not a bunch of bureaucrats, or internet fanboys.

The Mig 35 is not capable of fulfilling the IAFs needs... that became pretty obvious in the trials.
Furthermore it would not grant us any industrial advantages.
The Sukhoi 30 MKI is an air superiority fighter. It was never meant to be a omni role fighter like the Rafale. And thats what the IAF needs so desperately Furthermore, it wont give us industrial or technological advantages as well. The Mig 27s and Jags will go.... and without proper A2G capabilities the IAF could not fulfill one of its most important roles: Support of Indian ground troops.


Oh and sorry to burst your bubble.... but the Rafale is in a completely different league than the Tejas.

 

[Oracle]

some times i really want to say to india that , its not some bollywood movie or some tv soap drama.
choose one and stick to one and stop creating drama all the time

 

[GURU DUTT]

BS. The IAF is the only party which actually knows what the IAF needs... not a bunch of bureaucrats, or internet fanboys.

The Mig 35 is not capable of fulfilling the IAFs needs... that became pretty obvious in the trials.
Furthermore it would not grant us any industrial advantages.
The Sukhoi 30 MKI is an air superiority fighter. It was never meant to be a omni role fighter like the Rafale. And thats what the IAF needs so desperately Furthermore, it wont give us industrial or technological advantages as well. The Mig 27s and Jags will go.... and without proper A2G capabilities the IAF could not fulfill one of its most important roles: Support of Indian ground troops.


Oh and sorry to burst your bubble.... but the Rafale is in a completely different league than the Tejas.

well bro u might be right that rafale is in adiffrent leauge altogether but we cant afford it + french have dragged there feey for way too long(as they were waiting for there latest version) and new MOD & PMO is not ammused


its a buyers market and we have to make the purchase which is in owr best interests

just wait for some time picture will be clearer as for rafale deal it was dead theday dassult asked for gaurentee for the contract "deal between UPA & dassult"

 

[Sri]

Well - Prasun to some extent tried to explain this by saying IAF wants a Fighter which can deliver load in Terrain hugging mode which apart from M-2000, to some extent Jaguar can do (Presently in inventory). Mig-35, SU are basically Air Superiority fighters and can fulfill this job only partially. i.e. their airframes are not optimized for this role.
TRISHUL: Compounded Irrationalities Due To Systematic Stupidity-1
Ofcourse you should read his articles with caution .

 

[NKVD]

BS. The IAF is the only party which actually knows what the IAF needs... not a bunch of bureaucrats, or internet fanboys.

The Mig 35 is not capable of fulfilling the IAFs needs... that became pretty obvious in the trials.
Furthermore it would not grant us any industrial advantages.
The Sukhoi 30 MKI is an air superiority fighter. It was never meant to be a omni role fighter like the Rafale. And thats what the IAF needs so desperately Furthermore, it wont give us industrial or technological advantages as well. The Mig 27s and Jags will go.... and without proper A2G capabilities the IAF could not fulfill one of its most important roles: Support of Indian ground troops.


Oh and sorry to burst your bubble.... but the Rafale is in a completely different league than the Tejas.

Eventually Every one wants best but didn't always gets it.IAF should know capacity of finance india afford . it's also committed to pay for future procurements

 

[The enlightened]

Okay,you answer a simple question
if the outlay for the deal is 10.4 billion the MOD would tell the bidders to name a price in the range of 10.4 billion
Simple as that,why would MOD consider a Bid which is more than what is allotted for MMRCA tender

I give up. You win. MMRCA is 10 billion dollar deal. Trappier has said it. Echo_419 has said it. What more does one want.

 

[Imran Khan]

man buy it ya leave it tum ogoon ne to masla kashmir bana diya yaar

 

[Bang Galore]

I give up. You win. MMRCA is 10 billion dollar deal. Trappier has said it. Echo_419 has said it. What more does one want.

I think we messed up pretty badly with this deal. There is an argument to be made that suggests capping the price at a pre determined level & asking vendors to put in their best offers at the price band. This is a very odd way of choosing L1, pick 2 of the costliest on technical grounds & then play tweedle dee off against tweedle dum. Whoever wins, pretty much guaranteed the Indian tax payer loses. How can you compare the deal offered by Gripen, F16 & F18 against what is offered by Rafale & EF? How do we know what features cost us how much & whether it really was worth the cost?

The IAF may know what the best plane is but the MoD & MoF should have known what we can afford. Can we really afford to pony up 50% of the capital expenditure (Manohar Parrikar quote) on just one platform?

 

[The enlightened]

I think we messed up pretty badly with this deal. There is an argument to be made that suggests capping the price at a pre determined level & asking vendors to put in their best offers at the price band. This is a very odd way of choosing L1, pick 2 of the costliest on technical grounds & then play tweedle dee off against tweedle dum. Whoever wins, pretty much guaranteed the Indian tax payer loses. How can you compare the deal offered by Gripen, F16 & F18 against what is offered by Rafale & EF? How do we know what features cost us how much & whether it really was worth the cost?

The IAF may know what the best plane is but the MoD & MoF should have known what we can afford. Can we really afford to pony up 50% of the capital expenditure (Manohar Parrikar quote) on just one platform?

Capping the price? At what price would you want to place the cap. How do you determine that?
The MMRCA tender I believe was very reasonable and unique at that time. Competitive trials was a good idea. Set minimum requirements (which were somewhat futuristic, and reasonably so). Separate the men from the boys and buy the cheapest one. I don't know why the requirements were so stringent that Hornet, Viper and Gripen flopped or if they had comparative trials (On another forum, some poster claimed that it was so, with Rafale emerging 1st and EF 2nd).
Anyway, it gave us the opportunity to have a close look at the performance of 6 different jets, 5 of which we didn't even need to buy. Plus, when the deal was originally envisioned i.e pre financial crisis period; money would have been the last thing in the minds of our planners. Even then ~85 mn per jet was considered expensive back then (for any jet bar the might F-22).

 

[axisofevil]

Of course... random idiot who thinks hes tough by throwing around with f-words like some pissed off frustrated teenager on an online defence forum knows more than a seasoned officer with decades of experience...

Did you even comprehend my post? It had nothing to do with knowing more or experience. We are in the midst of negotiations with the French and this guy goes on media to say we have no PLAN B and how the MKI wont replace the Rafael. Do you see how this undercuts our leverage in negotiations with the French?

The retard needs to put a cork in his mouth and stop yapping. He is hurting our bargaing power.


The only idiot is you. Im a tough because I can whoop your tamil *** in a heartbeat. The only frustated indiivdual here is you virgin boy.