Rafale is not a Game Changer - Senior Analyst Shahzad Chaudhry

[CrazyZ]

Seriously? You could have ordered the contender. EF Thunder. I think it was finances which stopped Pakistan.

We preferred the F-16 block 52.

 

[Ajay Ghatak]

We preferred the F-16 block 52.

Then you can order more F-16s and be done with it. I heard F-16 Blk 60 or 70 is really good with SABR AESA radar.

 

[CrazyZ]

Then you can order more F-16s and be done with it. I heard F-16 Blk 60 or 70 is really good with SaBR AESA radar.

No stealth. Better to invest in AZM or buy J-31.

 

[Marker]

From what I've seen, the fly away MKIs have do not have the same issues as those manufactured in Russia.

What is the difference between fly away and manufactured in Russia?

 

[Ajay Ghatak]

No stealth. Better to invest in AZM or buy J-31.

Why buy unproven Chinese platforms when you can get proven ones. Anyways your money.

 

[Signalian]

Chinese are moving away from Russian design into their own designs like j-10X. Engine is still a big issue for them though.

BTW, Chinese pilots average on about 120 hours of flight time a year. IAF is close to 200 or more. Clearly, someone is doing more intensive training than the other. Once Chinese sort out their engine issues and move to more reliable engines they will also up their training time.

J-15 and J-16 were introduced after J-10. This means more Flanker versions showed up after J-10 so PLAAF and PLAN are inclined towards Flanker J-series. Political reasons concerning induction of SU30MKI doesn't make sense as induction should have stopped at 36 or 72 or maximum 100. From your posts it seems that IAF was not interested in SU30MKI, it was forcibly inducted, pilot training is a disaster on it, the ground crew don't know how to maintain it and overall the aircraft is a failure. This shows there no adaptability in IAF, they will only fly the aircrafts they can adapt to and even while MKI has been in service for decades, IAF has not understood this jet at any level.

IAF inducted 270 SU30MKI and though Flanker is a capable aircraft (as seen in PLAAF/PLAN) and IAF terms it 4.5 + gen, then going for another 4.5+ gen aircraft like Rafale shows that SU30MKI is not in capable hands for flying and maintenance. On the flip side, since you say that IAF got 270 SU30MKI for political reasons means IAF top brass is handicapped in planning and acquisition.

 

[Marker]

Su-30MKI is a worthless platform inducted by India due to purely political reasons. Indian Airforce conducts its training for a high sortire rate, through out the year. Indian Gagan-Shakti exercise is an example. Low availability and low engine life of Su30MKI makes these planes a dead weight for India. Why do you think India has such a high rate of accidents? They are using planes never meant for the training and operation regime they apply to. Their training and operation regime is more like what NATO has but their platforms are Russian.


Had they selected western platforms from the beginning, they would be having much easier time.

Then why your hindutva regime is buying more of these units?

 

[Figaro]

What is the difference between fly away and manufactured in Russia?

Sorry I meant manufactured in India ... typo on my part.

No dear, you didn't.. You only provided training numbers on god knows what platform.

India in 2007 was having higher number of hours on Su30s ie 214 hours per year. China had 120 hours on su-27.

You are forgetting that the 1st Air Division comprises of three different type of aircraft : the Su-27, J-8, and J-7. The 120 hours was an average of all of these planes, not just for the Su-27. More than likely, the Su-27 pilots receive closer to 200 hours while the J-7 and J-8 pilots receive less due to their vintage airframes, which makes logical sense.

Furthermore, I already gave you proof that the Chinese average 200 hours per year in the 2012 Air Force Magazine article. I don't know why you are using a 2007 article as a basis when I gave you an article 5 years more relevant.

In flight training, today’s PLAAF reportedly gives pilots 200 hours a year in the air, a striking increase from the fewer than 24 hours a year during the depths of the Cultural Revolution. In this respect, the PLAAF is approaching the standard set by USAF. China’s days of fielding obsolete air forces with poor training and outdated doctrine have clearly come to an end.

A Revolution for China’s Air Force | Air & Space Forces Magazine

The days of antiquated equipment, questionable training, and outdated concepts are over.

www.airforcemag.com

Unproven. All of Chinese missiles are unproven. Given that Chinese don't have any sense of quality, its export versions are even worse. There is a reason when it comes to air to air dominance, Pakistan still goes for F-16.

Please point out where the Chinese or the JF-17 does not have quality control? If anybody doesn't have quality control, its the Indians lmao. Please tell me how this is an example of good quality control.

Thanks to HAL QC control, your domestically assembled Su-30MKIs are falling out of the skies at break neck pace

Then you can order more F-16s and be done with it. I heard F-16 Blk 60 or 70 is really good with SABR AESA radar.

Courtesy of you guys, Pakistan unfortunately cannot buy Block 70s/72s ... especially after February 27.

 

[chama]

Soon means we are talking of something in 2035 when 1st craft will be inducted. Till that time we must have to maintain the detterence

Core takeaways should be:

1. Rafale does add to IAF capability
2. It is not being purchased in large enough quantities to make a difference in a 2 Front war
3. JF17B3 will also be a big jump in PAF's capabilities
4. No need to buy J-10 since better AC will soon be available (J31 or AZM)

 

[PradoTLC]

Why buy unproven Chinese platforms when you can get proven ones. Anyways your money.

why buy raffle draw planes when you could have bought the much better latest F15k versions ....


your money.?

 

[Mace]

Su-30MKI is a worthless platform inducted by India due to purely political reasons. Indian Airforce conducts its training for a high sortire rate, through out the year. Indian Gagan-Shakti exercise is an example. Low availability and low engine life of Su30MKI makes these planes a dead weight for India. Why do you think India has such a high rate of accidents? They are using planes never meant for the training and operation regime they apply to. Their training and operation regime is more like what NATO has but their platforms are Russian.


Had they selected western platforms from the beginning, they would be having much easier time.

SU30 is a very capable platform. The issue is IAF let its BVR advantage slip.

 

[Marker]

In order to upgrade PAF inventory, considering the fast changing geopolitical situation and foreign military assets mobilization, PAF may take following possible steps:

1. 10 years Leasing of 36 to 40 J-20s for two new squadrons. Induction must be completed by 2025.

2. Seek for OEM contract for F-31 airframe. Powered it by two RD-93 MA engines. “quad-redundant” fly-by-wire system configured it with latest proven avionics, EW, ECM packages (western or eastern) including AESA radar and HMD, use of MIL-STD-1773 fiber-optic data bus which offers a 1,000 times increase in data-handling capability, capability to carry wide range of western and eastern weapons and built in FLIR/laser targeting system. Full production must start by 2025.

3. Project AZM may continue at its pace.

Procuring any other Chinese weapon system for PAF will not be of worth. As none of these can be used as Mirages.

 

[Ajay Ghatak]

why buy raffle draw planes when you could have bought the much better latest F15k versions ....

No. Because US is not a reliable partner. Ever heard about a certain Pressler Amendment? Pakistan was US "ally" back then.

 

[Ajay Ghatak]

SU30 is a very capable platform. The issue is IAF let its BVR advantage slip.

Its more about platform reliability.

 

[Ajay Ghatak]

Please point out where the Chinese or the JF-17 does not have quality control? If anybody doesn't have quality control, its the Indians lmao. Please tell me how this is an example of good quality control.

Unproven was the argument. Tell me, how many times Chinese made air to air (SD-10 etc) missiles have scored a kill? And then check how many times western made missiles have.

Please point out where the Chinese or the JF-17 does not have quality control? If anybody doesn't have quality control, its the Indians lmao. Please tell me how this is an example of good quality control.

Thanks to HAL QC control, your domestically assembled Su-30MKIs are falling out of the skies at break neck pace

Irrelevant.