Rafale in storm clouds, Parrikar says IAF can make do with Sukhoi-30s
- Thread starter jaiind
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You know the US response when we signed a 100+ billion$ deal with Russia..
They will do anything for blocking the flow of 20 billion$ to Russia.
Well that is just an imagination for now.
But we cant antagonize US for now.
But I dont see a chance for the cancellation of MMRCA at this stage.We cant afford that.
jha
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This aircraft deal may be a necessity for Dassault but the importance is getting lower for this govt. They have got options and probably IAF is also of the view that paying so much and tolerating French "nakhras" is not worth it. SU-30+LCA-II may not equal Rafale in capabilities but then they should be enough for now.
France has got a habit of trying to backtrack from the RFP and extract more money. This was the case with Scorpene. They extracted huge amount of money for Mirage Upgrade. Only issue is this time they are facing Modi who will not tolerate any such maneuvering.
Tshering22
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Parikkar has casually conveyed a threat. With EFT bagging all foreign contracts, if they don't budge Rafale series will have to be shut down.
Decades ??? 2020 is not even half decade away
LittleFish
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25 billions $, what an amount. There must be many companies dreaming of the deal. Why not consider FC-1, which maybe only 10 million$ per plane...2500 jets!
Stephen Cohen
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Sinnerman108
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See, we have followed this for 10 years almost.
Lets see what happens.
After Mahabharata , business students will be taught this MMRCA story.
Any ideas on the cost per flight hour for the MKIs?
Stephen Cohen
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@Abingdonboy
The statement of Defence Minister definitely tells us ONE thing
that the UPGRADATION of Su30 mki ie has yielded good results
And we should not worry if Rafale does not come
We should open ONE more production line for Su 30 MKI
and make 50 aircraft per year
Also if necessary we can get TWO squadrons of SU 35
They too will be very helpful
Russia is very keen to Get MORE Orders because of their economic woes
How about getting TU 22 and MIG 31 and BULAVA ICBM
More Akulas
25 Billion USD is a lot of Money ; France's LOSS is Russia's GAIN
The statement of Defence Minister definitely tells us ONE thing
that the UPGRADATION of Su30 mki ie has yielded good results
And we should not worry if Rafale does not come
We should open ONE more production line for Su 30 MKI
and make 50 aircraft per year
Also if necessary we can get TWO squadrons of SU 35
They too will be very helpful
Russia is very keen to Get MORE Orders because of their economic woes
How about getting TU 22 and MIG 31 and BULAVA ICBM
More Akulas
25 Billion USD is a lot of Money ; France's LOSS is Russia's GAIN
Last edited:
Screambowl
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This is getting boring now.
Echo_419
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@Abingdonboy
The statement of Defence Minister definitely tells us ONE thing
that the UPGRADATION of Su30 mki ie has yielded good results
And we should not worry if Rafale does not come
We should open ONE more production line for Su 30 MKI
and make 50 aircraft per year
Also if necessary we can get TWO squadrons of SU 35
They too will be very helpful
Russia is very keen to Get MORE Orders because of their economic woes
How about getting TU 22 and MIG 31 and BULAVA ICBM
More Akulas
25 Billion USD is a lot of Money ; France's LOSS is Russia's GAIN
Do you have a brother by the name of Nishan 101
On topic
If the French try to be a smart *** we should go for EFT or more MKIs
PakGuns
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For the first time since January 31, 2012, when the French Rafale fighter was chosen as the future medium multi-role combat aircraft (MMRCA) for the Indian Air Force (IAF), it has been officially admitted that there are serious problems in negotiating the purchase with the French vendor, Dassault. the Indian Business Standard.reports.
Speaking to the media on Tuesday evening, Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar said there were “complications” in the negotiations, already on for almost three years, with the French side reluctant to meet commitments that IAF had specified in the tender. Parrikar mentioned that local production of Su-30 MKI by HAL would be adequate for the Indian Air Force (IAF) in case India will not procure the Rafale.
Past reports cited the reluctance of the French side to assume responsibility for the local production of 108 Rafales by Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL), mandated by the tender.
The IAF currently plans to have 272 Su-30MKI fighters by about 2018. HAL’s Nashik production line is building the fighter at $56 million each (358 crore Inr.), less than half the estimated cost of the Rafale.
In another reversal of previous ruling, Parrikar reiterated his intention to permit foreign arms companies to station “representatives or technical consultants” in India. India imposed a ban on ‘agents’ that after the Bofors gun scandal of 1987-88.
“Changes will be made to the Defence Procurement Policy. Company representatives will be allowed but commission, or percentage of profit for the deals will not be allowed.” Parrikar said, adding that representatives have to be registered with the ministry and remuneration shall be declared by the company.
According to The Tribune, a draft of the changed policy is ready and the final draft will be ready in the next few days and the process will be completed in 45 days. “The interests of the military would be taken care off” Parrikar declared. The Minister gave an example that Bharat Earth Movers Ltd (BEML) has been allowed to deal with the original Tatra company and not Tatra UK, which was banned following allegations of kick-backs.
India mulls switching from Rafale to Su30MKIs | Defense Update:
Speaking to the media on Tuesday evening, Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar said there were “complications” in the negotiations, already on for almost three years, with the French side reluctant to meet commitments that IAF had specified in the tender. Parrikar mentioned that local production of Su-30 MKI by HAL would be adequate for the Indian Air Force (IAF) in case India will not procure the Rafale.
Past reports cited the reluctance of the French side to assume responsibility for the local production of 108 Rafales by Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL), mandated by the tender.
The IAF currently plans to have 272 Su-30MKI fighters by about 2018. HAL’s Nashik production line is building the fighter at $56 million each (358 crore Inr.), less than half the estimated cost of the Rafale.
In another reversal of previous ruling, Parrikar reiterated his intention to permit foreign arms companies to station “representatives or technical consultants” in India. India imposed a ban on ‘agents’ that after the Bofors gun scandal of 1987-88.
“Changes will be made to the Defence Procurement Policy. Company representatives will be allowed but commission, or percentage of profit for the deals will not be allowed.” Parrikar said, adding that representatives have to be registered with the ministry and remuneration shall be declared by the company.
According to The Tribune, a draft of the changed policy is ready and the final draft will be ready in the next few days and the process will be completed in 45 days. “The interests of the military would be taken care off” Parrikar declared. The Minister gave an example that Bharat Earth Movers Ltd (BEML) has been allowed to deal with the original Tatra company and not Tatra UK, which was banned following allegations of kick-backs.
India mulls switching from Rafale to Su30MKIs | Defense Update:
Last edited:
nik22
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By Ajai Shukla
Business Standard, 1st Jan 2015
For the first time since January 31, 2012, when the French Rafale fighter was chosen as the future medium multi-role combat aircraft (MMRCA) for the Indian Air Force (IAF), a top Indian official has admitted serious problems in negotiating the purchase with French vendor, Dassault.
Speaking to the media on Tuesday evening, Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar said there were “complications” in the negotiations that have already dragged on for almost three years, with the French side reluctant to meet commitments that the IAF had specified in the tender.
Parrikar did not reveal details. Business Standard has reported earlier on Dassault’s unwillingness to assume responsibility for the production of Rafales by Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd, which the tender mandated. HAL is to build 108 Rafales in India with technology transferred from Dassault and its sub-vendors.
Ominously for Dassault, Parrikar said that additional Sukhoi-30MKI fighters, which HAL builds in Nashik, were adequate for the IAF in case it was decided not to procure the Rafale.
The IAF currently plans to have 272 Su-30MKI fighters by about 2018. HAL’s Nashik production line is building the fighter at Rs 358 crore each, less than half the estimated cost of buying the Rafale.
“The Su-30MKI is an adequate aircraft for meeting the air force’s needs”, said Parrikar.
Earlier this month, Parrikar had assured his French counterpart, Jean-Yves Le Drian, during the latter’s visit to New Delhi on December 1, that Rafale negotiations would be placed on a “fast track”, according to MoD officials.
The defence minister revealed on Tuesday that the French defence minister “has (committed) to send an empowered person to negotiate after New Year.”
According to the terms of the MMRCA tender, 18 of the 126 fighters being bought would be supplied fully built abroad, with the remaining 108 manufactured by HAL. The cost of the project, originally sanctioned at Rs 42,000 crore, has now crossed Rs 100,000 crore, according to expert estimates.
Border infrastructure
Signalling a major thrust on building roads along the 4,057-kilometre Line of Actual Control (LAC) between India and China, the defence minister announced that the Border Roads Organisation (BRO), which has been plagued by infighting between its civil and military personnel, would come directly under the MoD.
“BRO is being delinked from the Ministry of Surface Transport. It will be entirely defence controlled and defence financed. We are (also) considering transferring of more than 6,000-7,000 kilometres of roads, which are not in sensitive areas, to the National Highways (Authority of India)”, said Parrikar.
Weighing in against the principle of “dual command”, the defence minister said: “Ministry of Surface Transport was their (BRO’s) administrative department and defence was their [operational department]. So obviously there was confusion, when you have two masters, you don’t get work output.”
Parrikar confirmed that the proposal had been discussed with Minister for Surface Transport, Nitin Gadkari, and both had agreed that, from the next budget onwards, BRO would come under the MoD.
The BRO was charged with building 61 Indo-China Border Roads (ICBRs), of total length 3410 kilometres, by 2012. Of these, it has completed only 17 roads, of length 590 kilometres, the defence minister told parliament on December 12.
Parrikar explained that high technology, especially the practice of tunnelling with rock boring machines, was essential for building roads in difficult terrain, for which the private sector needed to be involved. “The way it is being cut today, I don’t think we will complete (our target) even in 15 years. If the target is 5 years, we will have to use technology”, he said.
The defence minister also revealed that he was working with the railways minister, Suresh Prabhu, to expand rail connectivity across Arunachal Pradesh. “We have decided to improve the railway connectivity as well as the road connectivity. We will finalise things in the days ahead”, he said.
The defence minister told parliament on December 12 that four strategic railway lines have been prioritised for survey.
Arms agents permitted
Parrikar reiterated his intention to permit foreign arms companies to station “representatives or technical consultants” in India, reversing a ban on “agents” that had been imposed after the Bofors gun scandal of 1987-88. This had been reported earlier by Business Standard (December 13, “Parrikar likely to allow arms agents, impose steep fines for wrongdoing”).
The defence minister downplayed reports of increased Pakistani firing on the Line of Control (LoC), stating, “Across the LoC, (firing) incidents have reduced during 2014. There were increasing incidents on the International Border, but they have also fallen during the last two months compared to this time last year.”
Even so, Parrikar emphasised the army’s muscular posture, saying his orders were” “Don’t hesitate; react appropriately and without holding yourself back. We don’t (start firing). But if there is something going on from the other side we retaliate with double the energy.”
Business Standard, 1st Jan 2015
For the first time since January 31, 2012, when the French Rafale fighter was chosen as the future medium multi-role combat aircraft (MMRCA) for the Indian Air Force (IAF), a top Indian official has admitted serious problems in negotiating the purchase with French vendor, Dassault.
Speaking to the media on Tuesday evening, Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar said there were “complications” in the negotiations that have already dragged on for almost three years, with the French side reluctant to meet commitments that the IAF had specified in the tender.
Parrikar did not reveal details. Business Standard has reported earlier on Dassault’s unwillingness to assume responsibility for the production of Rafales by Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd, which the tender mandated. HAL is to build 108 Rafales in India with technology transferred from Dassault and its sub-vendors.
Ominously for Dassault, Parrikar said that additional Sukhoi-30MKI fighters, which HAL builds in Nashik, were adequate for the IAF in case it was decided not to procure the Rafale.
The IAF currently plans to have 272 Su-30MKI fighters by about 2018. HAL’s Nashik production line is building the fighter at Rs 358 crore each, less than half the estimated cost of buying the Rafale.
“The Su-30MKI is an adequate aircraft for meeting the air force’s needs”, said Parrikar.
Earlier this month, Parrikar had assured his French counterpart, Jean-Yves Le Drian, during the latter’s visit to New Delhi on December 1, that Rafale negotiations would be placed on a “fast track”, according to MoD officials.
The defence minister revealed on Tuesday that the French defence minister “has (committed) to send an empowered person to negotiate after New Year.”
According to the terms of the MMRCA tender, 18 of the 126 fighters being bought would be supplied fully built abroad, with the remaining 108 manufactured by HAL. The cost of the project, originally sanctioned at Rs 42,000 crore, has now crossed Rs 100,000 crore, according to expert estimates.
Border infrastructure
Signalling a major thrust on building roads along the 4,057-kilometre Line of Actual Control (LAC) between India and China, the defence minister announced that the Border Roads Organisation (BRO), which has been plagued by infighting between its civil and military personnel, would come directly under the MoD.
“BRO is being delinked from the Ministry of Surface Transport. It will be entirely defence controlled and defence financed. We are (also) considering transferring of more than 6,000-7,000 kilometres of roads, which are not in sensitive areas, to the National Highways (Authority of India)”, said Parrikar.
Weighing in against the principle of “dual command”, the defence minister said: “Ministry of Surface Transport was their (BRO’s) administrative department and defence was their [operational department]. So obviously there was confusion, when you have two masters, you don’t get work output.”
Parrikar confirmed that the proposal had been discussed with Minister for Surface Transport, Nitin Gadkari, and both had agreed that, from the next budget onwards, BRO would come under the MoD.
The BRO was charged with building 61 Indo-China Border Roads (ICBRs), of total length 3410 kilometres, by 2012. Of these, it has completed only 17 roads, of length 590 kilometres, the defence minister told parliament on December 12.
Parrikar explained that high technology, especially the practice of tunnelling with rock boring machines, was essential for building roads in difficult terrain, for which the private sector needed to be involved. “The way it is being cut today, I don’t think we will complete (our target) even in 15 years. If the target is 5 years, we will have to use technology”, he said.
The defence minister also revealed that he was working with the railways minister, Suresh Prabhu, to expand rail connectivity across Arunachal Pradesh. “We have decided to improve the railway connectivity as well as the road connectivity. We will finalise things in the days ahead”, he said.
The defence minister told parliament on December 12 that four strategic railway lines have been prioritised for survey.
Arms agents permitted
Parrikar reiterated his intention to permit foreign arms companies to station “representatives or technical consultants” in India, reversing a ban on “agents” that had been imposed after the Bofors gun scandal of 1987-88. This had been reported earlier by Business Standard (December 13, “Parrikar likely to allow arms agents, impose steep fines for wrongdoing”).
The defence minister downplayed reports of increased Pakistani firing on the Line of Control (LoC), stating, “Across the LoC, (firing) incidents have reduced during 2014. There were increasing incidents on the International Border, but they have also fallen during the last two months compared to this time last year.”
Even so, Parrikar emphasised the army’s muscular posture, saying his orders were” “Don’t hesitate; react appropriately and without holding yourself back. We don’t (start firing). But if there is something going on from the other side we retaliate with double the energy.”
PakGuns
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