Rafale deal: India, France clinch offset deal; France agrees to invest 50% worth in related sectors

[Mamsalaphala]

Well,true that.For example,if the deal includes the Barracuda SSNs,then..........

My point exactly.

Since it is a govt. to govt. deal the possibilities are endless. So Modi was smart to redefine the rules of the game to favour India.

Since he has already demonstrated Baniyagiri, there is no need to doubt him now. Doubt him when there is sufficient reason to do so.

 

[Omega007]

Since he has already demonstrated Baniyagiri, there is no need to doubt him now. Doubt him when there is sufficient reason to do so.

Well,just doing justice to my title of the eternal cynic,that's all!!

 

[SR-91]

Logically speaking,instead going through this stupid ToT drama all over again, India should have imported all of the planes off the shelf,in flyaway condition straight from Dassault.That way,at least we could have ensured timely deliveries of the fighters at a far more reduced price tag!!Guess common sense is not so common after all.

Even with wait and delays, it will be worth it in the end.
It WILL create infrastructure, jobs and high end tech base in the country.

Price today sounds very high but it will seem like peanuts in a decade. Remember, we were bitching about 12 billion for 126 jets, just a few years ago. We will happily take that now.

 

[DrSomnath999]

@Abingdonboy @DrSomnath999
USD 4.5 billion figure doesn't justify just 36 numbers.
What i can understand here is that India wanted France to comply with existing laws and procedures (Offset specifically) and now that these seem to have been sorted out, we have a roadmap in place where orders can start growing.
Eventually we will see LCA program being taken care by HAL and Rafale by a private party.
I think we are going to see Rafale fleet close to 150 (atleast) in about a decade or so.

see mate

when you keep offset as criteria for any defence purchase it would be costly

thats why the deal which you see in comparision with egypt & qatar is costlier as they dont have such requirements

so long run we would infact IAF would be benefitted as private players like reliance can deliver faster /& better way compare to HAL even if they dont have any aeronautics experience

It would end monopoly of HAL also in future Relaince can be big competitor to HAL if it can really deliver good to IAF.

HAL should invest time & energy for LCA & AMCA that would be wise & time saving also

Regarding numbers of RAFALE i cant predict anything 36 is for the time being , it depends upon security scenario &
IAF requirements

CHEERS

 

[Donatello]

Stick around n you'll find out.

Sticking around since 2009.........

 

[SR-91]

Sticking around since 2009.........

Wanna candy for that??

 

[deepak.chauhan2312]

Since we signed deals with Egypt and Qatar,medias over here are no longer writing something about the Rafale for India. I sometimes even forgot that India is negociating to buy it .
Everyweek they were like "India,France to sign soon the deal","The deal will be signed in less than three months","Deal to be signed very soon"."Negociations are in final stage,soon a signature".

same here

 

[Gabriel92]

Wow, you've aged almost a decade in 4 years? Some vedic maths going on here.....

 

[Abingdonboy]

I can now confirm the following:

1) The first 36 Rafale MMRCAs will be delivered off-the-shelf by Dassault Aviation under a contract to be inked in the very near future this year itself.

2) Dassault has agreed to implement the 50% offsets reqmt AFTER the Govt of India gives a written, irreversible commitment to order more Rafales (up to 189 in all). But this 50% offsets commitment on Dassault's part will be implemented ONLY after follow-on orders for Rafale are placed in successive tranches. For this, Dassault has been granted total autonomy to choose its own team of Indian OEMs that will become vendors to Dassault. Dassault, and not any Indian govt entity will have the final say on the choice of such Indian vendors. It will, of course, include HAL, which is already producing some avionics that are common to both the Rafale & Su-30MKI (Like the Sigma-95N RLG-INS).

3) Of the 50% offsets commitment made by Dassault, only 15% will be implemented as indirect industrial offsets (the Indian MoD refers to them as 'Rainbow Offsets) under the contract for the first 36 Rafales. That means, for instance, if I am the foreign supplier OEM, I can choose whether to invest the 15% offsets value with either an Indian lipsticks manufacturer, or with an Indian potato-chip manufacturer, or an Indian shoe-polish manufacturer. I am no longer obligated to commit my offsets to any MoD-owned DPSU like HAL or BEL or BEML etc etc.

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@PARIKRAMA @Gabriel92 @halloweene @SR-91 @Water Car Engineer


This makes a lot of sense- 50% offsets for 36 jets never made any sense.

 

[Ragnar]

With just 3 squadrons Pak FA will just be the leading edge. Super Sukhois and Rafales will form backbone of the force to 2030 and beyond. I have a feeling that Pak-FA will be a non-starter and India will need Rafale more. At least 6-8 squadrons.

 

[Abingdonboy]

With just 3 squadrons Pak FA will just be the leading edge. Super Sukhois and Rafales will form backbone of the force to 2030 and beyond. I have a feeling that Pak-FA will be a non-starter and India will need Rafale more. At least 6-8 squadrons.

The IAF isn't getting the PAK-FA, it is the FGFA they are after and India has already invested over a billion USD in this project- there is no going back now.

 

[dadeechi]

The IAF isn't getting the PAK-FA, it is the FGFA they are after and India has already invested over a billion USD in this project- there is no going back now.

I thought India only invested $300 million till date for the FGFA preliminary design contract signed back in 2010. Was there any additional agreement or payment?

 

[anant_s]

I can now confirm the following:

1) The first 36 Rafale MMRCAs will be delivered off-the-shelf by Dassault Aviation under a contract to be inked in the very near future this year itself.

2) Dassault has agreed to implement the 50% offsets reqmt AFTER the Govt of India gives a written, irreversible commitment to order more Rafales (up to 189 in all). But this 50% offsets commitment on Dassault's part will be implemented ONLY after follow-on orders for Rafale are placed in successive tranches. For this, Dassault has been granted total autonomy to choose its own team of Indian OEMs that will become vendors to Dassault. Dassault, and not any Indian govt entity will have the final say on the choice of such Indian vendors. It will, of course, include HAL, which is already producing some avionics that are common to both the Rafale & Su-30MKI (Like the Sigma-95N RLG-INS).

3) Of the 50% offsets commitment made by Dassault, only 15% will be implemented as indirect industrial offsets (the Indian MoD refers to them as 'Rainbow Offsets) under the contract for the first 36 Rafales. That means, for instance, if I am the foreign supplier OEM, I can choose whether to invest the 15% offsets value with either an Indian lipsticks manufacturer, or with an Indian potato-chip manufacturer, or an Indian shoe-polish manufacturer. I am no longer obligated to commit my offsets to any MoD-owned DPSU like HAL or BEL or BEML etc etc.

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@PARIKRAMA @Gabriel92 @halloweene @SR-91 @Water Car Engineer


This makes a lot of sense- 50% offsets for 36 jets never made any sense.

France has a lot on plate when it comes to strategic interaction with India like nuclear reactors for Jaitapur, Mid Air refuellers, even Airbus platform for Indian AWACS.
In this context it really is naive to believe that either India or France would want to do anything that would have a negative impact on long term relationship.
One more thing, 189 number works to approx 10 squadrons and this number now gives s tremendous flexibility with both LCA and FGFA induction and if i may add can cover for any delays in induction.
from threat perspective J 20 and J 31 are still some years away from induction and having something like Rafale in your fleet gives a huge advantage to Airforce.

 

[Donald Trump]

When will the contract be signed and how long will it take for local vendors and suppliers to set up their shop?

That's the million dollar question! The fukin red tapism and further negotiations is crazy! Both sides will now open and examine Dassault's commercial bid. This will be followed by the main negotiations on final price, lifecycle costs and other details related to the aircraft itself.

So I think somewhere around end March 2016 is when the first ready-made Rafale will burn the Indian skies! The rest will take upto three years or so. No one has a firm time line as yet.

 

[SR-91]

I can now confirm the following:

1) The first 36 Rafale MMRCAs will be delivered off-the-shelf by Dassault Aviation under a contract to be inked in the very near future this year itself.

2) Dassault has agreed to implement the 50% offsets reqmt AFTER the Govt of India gives a written, irreversible commitment to order more Rafales (up to 189 in all). But this 50% offsets commitment on Dassault's part will be implemented ONLY after follow-on orders for Rafale are placed in successive tranches. For this, Dassault has been granted total autonomy to choose its own team of Indian OEMs that will become vendors to Dassault. Dassault, and not any Indian govt entity will have the final say on the choice of such Indian vendors. It will, of course, include HAL, which is already producing some avionics that are common to both the Rafale & Su-30MKI (Like the Sigma-95N RLG-INS).

3) Of the 50% offsets commitment made by Dassault, only 15% will be implemented as indirect industrial offsets (the Indian MoD refers to them as 'Rainbow Offsets) under the contract for the first 36 Rafales. That means, for instance, if I am the foreign supplier OEM, I can choose whether to invest the 15% offsets value with either an Indian lipsticks manufacturer, or with an Indian potato-chip manufacturer, or an Indian shoe-polish manufacturer. I am no longer obligated to commit my offsets to any MoD-owned DPSU like HAL or BEL or BEML etc etc.

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@PARIKRAMA @Gabriel92 @halloweene @SR-91 @Water Car Engineer


This makes a lot of sense- 50% offsets for 36 jets never made any sense.

This, does make a lot of sense now. Thx for the info.
GOOD INFO BRO Mogambo KHUSH HUA!!!!!!!

You just lined up all the TROLLERS and em.

With this deal in the bag, India will have greater leverage on Russians. Get a better package deal on FGFA.